How to bring T1 bots back

[kulkija]

Meanwhile in discord:

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fridaywitch — tänään klo 13.18

Hey Deckard, thanks for swinging by when people are upset to speak with us. Do you have any idea on when the ore baseline orders are coming back to markets? It's hurting new players and only benefitting the rich folk.

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NQ-Deckard — tänään klo 13.20

I do not, I have another discussion with my team about it this afternoon. This to, requires some high level analysis to try to safeguard the economy as best we can.

[blundertwink]

3 minutes ago, kulkija said:

I do not, I have another discussion with my team about it this afternoon. This to, requires some high level analysis to try to safeguard the economy as best we can.

 

They do realize they're making a game and are not in fact the Federal Reserve, right...?

 

The only concern right now should be new player retention.

 

If that means giving new players 1,000,000 quanta a day...F*ck it, they should...

 

Twiddling their thumbs and pretending they are a central bank and the economy is oh-so-complicated and needs oh-so-much care is stupid when the game is failing to retain new players. That would be like worrying about interest rates in the midst of the zombie apocalypse. 

 

Their inability to prioritize things or make decisions in a reasonable time is baffling.

 

I guess this is how it goes when your CEO is a web3/blockchain fanatic -- it isn't like that's the person that will tell people to focus on what's important or make important choices for the company...nah, he's too busy trying to convince people that DU is the metaverse. 

[Devilish]

Just now, blundertwink said:

 

They do realize they're making a game and are not in fact the Federal Reserve, right...?

 

The only concern right now should be new player retention.

 

If that means giving new players 1,000,000 quanta a day...F*ck it, they should...

 

Twiddling their thumbs and pretending they are a central bank and the economy is oh-so-complicated and needs oh-so-much care is stupid when the game is failing to retain new players. That would be like worrying about interest rates in the midst of the zombie apocalypse. 

 

Their inability to prioritize things or make decisions in a reasonable time is baffling.

 

I guess this is how it goes when your CEO is a web3/blockchain fanatic -- it isn't like that's the person that will tell people to focus on what's important or make important choices for the company...nah, he's too busy trying to convince people that DU is the metaverse. 

Amen. NQ needs to do something about the fact that all of the ways to make money in this game are boring, tedious and time consuming; and usually don't even bring in that much money.

[huschhusch]

English (Translator used)

If you want to regulate the amount of money (quanta) in the system, you can design the BOT purchases so that each player can only sell a certain amount per 24 hours.

This way, even the beginners have a chance to convert their ore into quanta and the total amount of ore can then be controlled with the volume.

 

I think this is a solution for everyone to generate quanta with ore at the moment. The industrialists can cover their needs through the market.

 

 

Quote

 

German (original)

Wenn man die Geldmenge (Quanta) im System regulieren will, so kann man die BOT-Käufe so gestalten, dass jeder Spieler nur eine bestimme Menge pro 24 Stunden verkaufen kann.

So haben auch die Anfänger eine Chance ihr Erz in Quanta umzusetzen und die gesamte Menge an Erz kann dann mit dem Volumen gesteuert werden.

 

Ich denke, dass ist für alle eine Lösung um momentan Quanta mit Erz zu generieren. Die Industrielen können über den Markt ihren Bedarf decken.

 

 

Die Waldfee
 

[Pleione]

1 hour ago, Zeddrick said:

  Just:

 

  - put up bot orders so big that all the ore in the game can sell into them and there is still some left.

 

 - cancel all ore sell orders at the same time.

 

 - don't tell anyone it's coming.

 

 

Seems like it would be fair and really easy.

 

So you agree with Solution E in the original post?

[Zeddrick]

50 minutes ago, Pleione said:

 

So you agree with Solution E in the original post?

OK, I'm going to be honest here.  There were a lot of words and I didn't make it as far as E.  I did say you were making it too hard....

 

But no, it's not the same as E.  It's just 'make some really gigantic bot orders everywhere and delete all the sell orders at the same time'.  Don't complete them, just delete them and return the ore to the seller's container.  Don't try to be fair, don't try to be clever, just make orders so huge that everyone has the chance to sell into them even days later so nobody gets lucky.  Delete sell orders because otherwise people who aren't on when it happens will have people buy their ore and insta-sell to the bots, which isn't fair.  People can re-post their orders or choose to sell to bot orders later.

[Rokkur]

11 hours ago, ColonkinYT said:

Apparently at first they thought that the players themselves would work as game masters for free. But we know that this is not so.
 

Not only the miscalculation by NQ, but some of the toxic members of the community saying content creators such as builders/scripters only want to play 5% of the game and their struggles are completely irrelevant. People fail to appreciate the time it takes to build professional level constructs, or script optimized and functional features. 

Not to mention the failure by NQ to provide the tools these creators requested in order to create in game activities, player driven content etc.
Then the community rags on these players as "filthy casuals" make them feel unwelcome, they leave, and then community complains about lack of content in the game. 

I mean at this point it is so bad it is nearly comical. When both developers and the community poo poo on skilled players that dedicated time creating things for players to enjoy, why would they want to stay, especially in a game where one of major focuses is player made content, and they are told you don't matter and you won't be missed when you leave.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Rokkur

[Bobbie]

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[Pleione]

3 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

I don't understand... Didn't Deckard previously say that fixing the bot orders was low priority?

 

If they wanted to safeguard the economy, as he is saying now, then shouldn't they have fixed the bot orders with high priority? Like before it became an actual issue?

 

Doesn't matter - too late now that it IS an issue.  Only question remains if they will even bother.  Wouldn't surprise me to see them run for month just to see if the economy fails, and if not, declare a player run economy a success (and undoubtedly claim that was their plan all along).

[Bobbie]

.

[Pleione]

Months?  Get serious... this is critical... might take half a year or more!

[Bobbie]

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[Rimezx]

Bot orders are not needed at all. Adding them creates quanta inflation making everyone keeping quanta instead of ore lose their money's value. Let simple supply and demand regulate the economy. If that cannot be done then the game is pretty much dead imho. 

[Pleione]

1 hour ago, Rimezx said:

Bot orders are not needed at all. Adding them creates quanta inflation making everyone keeping quanta instead of ore lose their money's value. Let simple supply and demand regulate the economy. If that cannot be done then the game is pretty much dead imho. 

 

So in this vision you see NQ modifying taxes based on supply and demand???

[Rimezx]

14 minutes ago, Pleione said:

 

So in this vision you see NQ modifying taxes based on supply and demand???

Applying bandages after shooting yourself in the foot does not solve your issues.

 

Current mining unit and tax and flower system should be removed from the game all together in my opinion. Make mining units placable on dynamic cores and draining a large amount of ore from a tile in a small amount of time, depleting the tile. Have tile ore contents reset and change every month. Include no territory units and claiming in this system. That's 100x more fun and engaging. Also fair to new starters. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Rimezx

[Kezzle]

7 hours ago, Rimezx said:

Include no territory units and claiming in this system.

Which would conveniently also do away with any need to create a territory wafare system, since there would be no permanent resources to fight over control of.

 

Win-win!

[RugesV]

9 hours ago, Rimezx said:

Bot orders are not needed at all. Adding them creates quanta inflation making everyone keeping quanta instead of ore lose their money's value. Let simple supply and demand regulate the economy. If that cannot be done then the game is pretty much dead imho. 

Figure 9 billion a week in territory taxes, and another 3-5 billion a week in schematics. Figure there is 50,000 daily logins every week That adds 5 billion to the economy. Where is the other 9 billion going to come from in your vision of no bot orders?  Figure the average character can make 2.5million a day running missions,  That means 3600 people would have run a days worth of hauling missions every week. or 514 people running a hauling mission every day.  And this is also assuming these people running hauling missions then spend that on ore people are selling on the market. 

 

Oh sure its going to be great fun for those that run missions for themself to take care of all there quanta needs. And it will be profitable for those running missions to buy ore off the market at a reduced rate. But there are going to be allot more players that dont want to do hauling missions and players that dont want to sell ore at 15 to bots that then decide to leave the game. Less players means the market will get worse over time since less players are involved.

 

Basically short term. keeping bots out of the market will be great. Long term,  it will drive players away from the game, which will hurt the market way more then a couple people having billions of quanta. 

[Rimezx]

1 hour ago, Kezzle said:

Which would conveniently also do away with any need to create a territory wafare system, since there would be no permanent resources to fight over control of.

 

Win-win!

They could just place game built structures in all planents and have like castle siege mechanics at set intervals for orgs like any mmorpgs giving percentage of all market taxes on planet to winner org. Thats incentive enough to pvp for it. 

[Bobbie]

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[Bobbie]

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[Pleione]

14 hours ago, Rimezx said:

Applying bandages after shooting yourself in the foot does not solve your issues.

 

Current mining unit and tax and flower system should be removed from the game all together in my opinion. Make mining units placable on dynamic cores and draining a large amount of ore from a tile in a small amount of time, depleting the tile. Have tile ore contents reset and change every month. Include no territory units and claiming in this system. That's 100x more fun and engaging. Also fair to new starters. 

 Which requires them to write new code, not just change table entries.  e.g.  Lucky if they could do it in 6 months.

[Rimezx]

12 minutes ago, Pleione said:

 Which requires them to write new code, not just change table entries.  e.g.  Lucky if they could do it in 6 months.

I mean all the systems are already in place. It would just take some copy pasting from the current systems. It would be a few days work tops. 

[Wyndle]

On 11/17/2022 at 12:11 PM, Rokkur said:

Not only the miscalculation by NQ, but some of the toxic members of the community saying content creators such as builders/scripters only want to play 5% of the game and their struggles are completely irrelevant. People fail to appreciate the time it takes to build professional level constructs, or script optimized and functional features. 

Not to mention the failure by NQ to provide the tools these creators requested in order to create in game activities, player driven content etc.
Then the community rags on these players as "filthy casuals" make them feel unwelcome, they leave, and then community complains about lack of content in the game. 

I mean at this point it is so bad it is nearly comical. When both developers and the community poo poo on skilled players that dedicated time creating things for players to enjoy, why would they want to stay, especially in a game where one of major focuses is player made content, and they are told you don't matter and you won't be missed when you leave.

 

This.

 

17 hours ago, Rimezx said:

Applying bandages after shooting yourself in the foot does not solve your issues.

 

Current mining unit and tax and flower system should be removed from the game all together in my opinion. Make mining units placable on dynamic cores and draining a large amount of ore from a tile in a small amount of time, depleting the tile. Have tile ore contents reset and change every month. Include no territory units and claiming in this system. That's 100x more fun and engaging. Also fair to new starters. 

 

9 hours ago, Kezzle said:

Which would conveniently also do away with any need to create a territory wafare system, since there would be no permanent resources to fight over control of.

 

Win-win!

 

The available resources in safe space becoming less predictable would immediately kill the last vestiges of non-pvp play.  There would be fuel shortages killing missions and the rest of the economy with it.  Quanta is a unit of trade, not a resource in and of itself.  You can't fill your tanks with an infinite supply of quanta if there's no ore to process.  

[Rimezx]

3 hours ago, Wyndle said:

The available resources in safe space becoming less predictable would immediately kill the last vestiges of non-pvp play.  There would be fuel shortages killing missions and the rest of the economy with it.  Quanta is a unit of trade, not a resource in and of itself.  You can't fill your tanks with an infinite supply of quanta if there's no ore to process.  

There's never gonna be a fuel shortage. You can make more than enough fuel just by gathering skittles. So what is the non-pvp play right now? Go calibrate your mining units and then logout? At least scanning and finding ore in different planets and the world being alive would be something to look forward to. 

 

Material passive income. I mean have you ever seen this like anywhere? You are supposed to grind for the material not have an automatic pipeline that hands it to you so you can afk at your base all day. The thing is people that knew how the system worked abused it so hard from day one and have huge high tier ore quantities stockpiled. We are reaching the "wipe needed" territory again. But now there cannot be any more wipes so you have to deal with it. You are never catching up to these people and if u dont scan and find high tier tile soon you will forever be left in the dust. 

 

The game is dead at this point no matter what they do honestly. It's done.

[Wyndle]

Just now, Rimezx said:

There's never gonna be a fuel shortage. You can make more than enough fuel just by gathering skittles. So what is the non-pvp play right now? Go calibrate your mining units and then logout? At least scanning and finding ore in different planets and the world being alive would be something to look forward to. 

 

Material passive income. I mean have you ever seen this like anywhere? You are supposed to grind for the material not have an automatic pipeline that hands it to you so you can afk at your base all day. The thing is people that knew how the system worked abused it so hard from day one and have huge high tier ore quantities stockpiled. We are reaching the "wipe needed" territory again. But now there cannot be any more wipes so you have to deal with it. You are never catching up to these people and if u dont scan and find high tier tile soon you will forever be left in the dust. 

 

The game is dead at this point no matter what they do honestly. It's done.

Sure.... let's depend on all the surface ore that doesn't respawn to keep our ships flying indefinitely.  Non-PvP consists of ALL of the activities that are not pew pew including making ships, weapons, ammo, and fuel for said pew to occur.

 

"Material passive income"  Methinks you're leaning too heavily on the wrong meaning of income.  Being required to maintain machines on an ongoing basis to keep the material flowing also starts to chip away at the passive portion of the statement.  Using material passive income in the same way it could be said that I have material passive incoming water and natural gas material that I use to produce home heat and process food into usable product.

 

If you genuinely believe the game is already dead why put any energy into the forums?