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THE FUTURE OF DUAL UNIVERSE - Discussion thread


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54 minutes ago, kulkija said:

If same tech can be used on more commercial purposes it is only beneficial to DU.

 

It can easily not be beneficial.

 

For example, if sub money is being spent on other projects because they know DU isn't going to work out, that's clearly not beneficial to DU. 

 

I'm unclear why you would think that NQ would develop a "more commercial" product just to support a product that's bleeding revenue...their goal is to make money, not to do commercial side projects just to burn money on a product that has not worked. 

 

55 minutes ago, kulkija said:

How ever those who advocate loudly that game is already dead will not help.

 

It's up to the developer to tell us that the game is alive by communicating about the future.

 

On one hand we have a small dev using resources on other projects, on the other we have an MMO with zero traction that's only bleeding players. What else are we supposed to think? 

 

I'm not saying the "game is dead", NQ is. That's what this announcements means to me, anyway. 

 

Regardless, I disagree with this idea that talking frankly about the state of the game is "not helpful" because it's negative. 


It's certainly helpful to new players that think this is a good game to invest their time and money into.

 

Even the devs would rather invest their time and money elsewhere, apparently. If that isn't a sign, I don't know what is. 

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No one has yet demonstrated what a "3D Blog" even is, let alone why anyone would want one or what function it might serve. All that word-salad seemed to do was suggest that DU is an example of one (???), and that they think that the "incentives" in DU are enough to get people "3D Blogging".

 

Pie in the sky. 

 

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21 hours ago, Kezzle said:

No one has yet demonstrated what a "3D Blog" even is, let alone why anyone would want one or what function it might serve. All that word-salad seemed to do was suggest that DU is an example of one (???), and that they think that the "incentives" in DU are enough to get people "3D Blogging".

 

Pie in the sky. 

 

 

If I had to guess...? It would be a platform to create 3d props and backgrounds for youtube, tiktok, other social media BS.

 

So instead of making an MMO, their tools would power fancy backgrounds for influencers...no doubt with some marketplace so that people can sell their voxel scenes or LUA widgets. 

 

I don't think it really relates to DU other than them scavenging DU's core tech for this purpose -- but they'll use the community's content to promote the tech, because why not? They might as well use DU for something, after all. 

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why on earth would you use DU to create 3D probs and backgroups, there are dedicated tools for that, some are even free like bender or Daz. Unreal Engine can make 3D stages and more if that is what you want, and it is free, supported and updated.

Edited by Kurosawa
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The released DU in unfinished state with lots of bug and mission features. But playable. I think majority of players, me included, expected that most bugs and some interface polish will be done in nearest months. Almost nothing, just some new bugs to replace some old bugs. We really expected more content - any kind of PvE vs flying ships, on planets and maybe in space. Nothing. More diverse and active way of earning some game currency by selling T1 ores to npc gone. Not modified, updated, tuned some way to be more fun (like price depends on a distance from Alioth), just gone. Lots of people quit because of that. Courier missions is most boring thing you can imagine. Make those mission more cooperative gameplay by removing invisible personal tags from courier packages - also no. There are almost none easy understandable activities for new comers, that can give them any source of income. 

Edited by Dixiii
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  • 3 weeks later...

Indeed, and by doing that we are now called whiners and conspiricy theorists. 

 

Maybe that helps to put veterans in a corner so new people have a more open opinion, but it does nothing on the game itself. Its still full of overly unneeded limitations and stuff added to mask the server isnt that great and well the reason for scrapped features

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8 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

Indeed, and by doing that we are now called whiners and conspiricy theorists. 

 

I do find it a bit funny that some people insist that the game is not only great, but that it's popular.

 

When you mention Steam stats they get really mad and insist that Steam "means nothing" because it's only one part of the picture...which is true.

 

There's also an ocean of bad reviews (both from players and press), no social growth at all in years, no one watching on twitch, no major dev progress for a long time now, and both the CEO and NQ's open job postings clearly stating that they are working on multiple projects other than DU. 

 

The last new feature (that wasn't merely refactoring concepts they already had) was what...? Alien Cores and the new FTUE introduced around April of 2022...?

 

The only new "content" announced after 4 months of horrible release numbers is what...one PvE mission? 

 

But sure, DU is the one magical product in the universe that's growing organically while showing no growth across social, negative growth on Steam, little press, no ads, and no major feature development. Sounds reasonable to me. 🤷‍♂️

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Help or get out of the way.


If you truly believe that the game is dead, not being developed, and awful, (which I do not believe) then go do something else. Trolling the DU forums constantly decrying the process doesn't actually help anyone, even you.

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30 minutes ago, Tordan said:

Trolling the DU forums constantly decrying the process doesn't actually help anyone, even you.

 

Wrong. 

 

First, it helps people that are interested in the game -- they deserve to know if the developer charging them month-to-month is actually focused on the game. 

 

Second, it helps people that are already subscribed...NQ is clearly saying "we're working on other things", they just aren't keen on announcing it in places that most gamers see. People have every right to know what they're paying for and if DU is NQ's main priority, because the actual evidence sure doesn't indicate it is. 

 

Third, I'm not obligated to "help or get out of the way" (as if a post that no one reads is somehow "getting in the way" lol). If you disagree with my opinion, fine...you're free to articulate your opinion and explain your reasoning, too. 

 

But you aren't lord of the forum that gets to brand opinions or observations they don't like as "trolling".

 

To me, trolling people is attacking people personally instead of discussing the topic or focusing on opinions about the game.

Edited by blundertwink
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5 hours ago, blundertwink said:

I'm not obligated to "help or get out of the way"

 

Of course you're not. My opinions don't have any authority behind them at all. 
 

Contrary to what a prospective player might read here, my experience is that there is an active and enthusiastic player base that would welcome more players willing to delve into a complex but rewarding sandbox.

That the devs are continuing to work hard on the game, perhaps not with the lightning speed a larger dev house might achieve, but with dedication to a beloved project and a steadfast commitment to treading thoughtfully.

That the devs do in fact read these forums. They just don't always reply to every post, particularly ones that don't provide any new insights.

 

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4 hours ago, Tordan said:

That the devs are continuing to work hard on the game, perhaps not with the lightning speed a larger dev house might achieve, but with dedication to a beloved project and a steadfast commitment to treading thoughtfully.

That the devs do in fact read these forums. They just don't always reply to every post, particularly ones that don't provide any new insights.

 

 

Really?  I can't remember any such post since launch, and they were far and few between (the occasional "We are reading and working hard" but nothing meaningful) before that.  Excepting patch notes of course.

 

I'm working with another game that has a total of 5 devs, plus support staff, that is moving much quicker - and they talk to us on Discord, often DM us to make sure we are ok, etc.  And they appear to be happy to do so.  We hear about the trials and tribulations of their current efforts, they send out meaningful, neutral, surveys (not marketing ones), and remind us they are human and take weekends off.  The environment is SO much better.  Because of it, the test base is friendly and non-corrosive.  Testers help by voting on the bugs they want to see squished first, and they actively solicited suggestions, also open for voting. The environment is SO much better.  Because of it, the test base is friendly and non-corrosive.  Oh, and despite being pre-alpha, they have more online players than DU...

 

As a result, my 12 hour a day addiction to DU is down to a few hours a day - mostly calibration mining a few dozen MUs in order the pay taxes on our 24 territories. I'd never consider spending another dime on DU, mostly because the devs don't give us any meaningful clue about if there will even be a tomorrow.  Like the last roadmap was published in December of 2019???  Over THREE YEARS ago?  In fact, I commented today to my last remaining org mate that I'm actually rather pleased - for awhile I didn't think DU would make it to 2023.

 

About the "DU is live - join us on Twitch?"  No major news, just an hour or so of looking at player constructs.  (Plus 30 minutes of "Hello xyz!")  Bleh.

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9 hours ago, Tordan said:

That the devs are continuing to work hard on the game, perhaps not with the lightning speed a larger dev house might achieve, but with dedication to a beloved project and a steadfast commitment to treading thoughtfully.
 

RocketWertz the developer of Stationeers. is probably about the same size dev team? here is a link to there update page https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/544550?updates=true  They just blow NQ away. 

 

However if we look at Iron Gate AB the developer of Velheilm.  They have 10 people. here is a link to the update page https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/892970?updates=true And while they have fewer updates then NQ. the content in each patch is far more then NQ. 

 

And for further comparison here is the update page for Dual Universe https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2000270?updates=true

 

So if the DU dev team is down to about 4 people. we are getting the right amout of patches. If NQ has more then that they are underperforming.  Although they could be working on the bigger longer term patches. (which the PVE patch they have been talking to us about could be). 

 

Overall I think its going to take another 6 months before we see how much NQ is actually providing us. And if they are underperforming or not. 

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2 hours ago, RugesV said:

Overall I think its going to take another 6 months before we see how much NQ is actually providing us. And if they are underperforming or not. 

That is if you only look at the time after release. Historically they have been underperforming for a long time with many more devs then they appear to have now. So what can we realistically expect from NQ at this point?

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12 hours ago, Tordan said:

Contrary to what a prospective player might read here, my experience is that there is an active and enthusiastic player base that would welcome more players willing to delve into a complex but rewarding sandbox.

And I envy you that experience, because judging from how many left that is not what the majority of players have experienced.

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I think part of this overreaching negative perception, that DU, additional to glaring dev speed issues, has history of absolute failure (to say the least, because of forum rules -- but you can insert much stronger words) in community managment.  

 

They not "covered" slow devs at all in downtime. And despite having (initially) very vibrant and supporting community, CM team (consisting most of the time from at least several stuff members) was not able to capitalize on it at all, doing pretty much no one knows what for years.

 

I tried to engage about it with Nyzaltar (CM head, presumably, and still on this place) several times over years, but never got any clear idea or even hint if there is some actual focus of their work or if something to be changed. Only got some bans from him.

 

Maybe its some greater plan in motion, ofc, but... 

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2 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

That is if you only look at the time after release. Historically they have been underperforming for a long time with many more devs then they appear to have now. So what can we realistically expect from NQ at this point?

And thats why I said another 6 months.  A full year should really tell us how much content NQ will be pushing out. I dont know much about alpha development. But I joined first day of beta. And the first 6 months was fixing performance issues. Then they gave us some content in the 2nd 6 months. But .23 was in there that wiped out players. Then NQ had a mass exodus when JC left. This required hiring new people and training them up to speed. Which means we got jack all till the end of the 3rd 6 months. In the 4th and final 6 months they started to pickup on patches. And so far, in the first 6 months of release we got 1.2 and 1.3 which is a decent rate, Granted the first 3 months where focused on nerfing players which drove them off too. 

 

And I think when they had to train new team members they lost allot of development time. Hopefully we should not see a repeat which means the next 6 months should be some pretty decent updates. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The very idea that Dual Universe is going to last another 12 months is puzzling to me...

 

There's no reason to actually believe that other than hope, which is fine I guess...but let's not pretend that NQ is scaling up their dev efforts and that they merely need to catch up. 

 

Their CEO has been clear that his priority has been (for a long time now) adapting the underlying tech to new products.

 

You know...products that actually have a chance of commercial success, at least in their eyes. 

 

DU isn't such a product, and that ought to be rather clear by now. Bad reviews, flagging pops, and clearly a mountain of tech debt such that changes are glacially slow. 

 

This isn't merely a staffing issue where devs need time to get up to speed -- why would anyone believe that NQ will onboard new devs to a product their own CEO describes as a "moonshot"...? There's no evidence of that, regardless.

 

I keep saying it because people want to pretend otherwise: NQ's development priority is not Dual Universe.

 

If you think that their pace will magically improve even as the company's leader is clearly saying "we're focused on other things"...that's just fantasy to me. 

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1 hour ago, Pleione said:

Honestly, I wish they would just pull the plug.  Then I could quit playing guilt free. 

 

If you don't want to play, don't. It is a game, not a job. No need to also shut it down for everyone else. Some of us love this game. 

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On 2/14/2023 at 12:46 PM, Tordan said:

 

If you don't want to play, don't. It is a game, not a job. No need to also shut it down for everyone else. Some of us love this game. 

 

Actually elected to compromise:  I'm going to play when I feel like it, with total disregard for 24 hour calibration cycles.  Yeah, I won't make as much profit, but hopefully it will start feeling like a game instead of a job.  Maybe I'll play daily, maybe I won't, but I won't feel guilty if I skip a day or three.

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