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Get rid of schematics already.


DealerSix

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English (Translator used)

Hello NQ,

an "Aphelia ask the players" might be a solution instead of just a "player aks Aphelia".

Then all the good suggestions from the players about a problem the developers are working on could be taken into account.

 

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German (original)

Hallo NQ,

ein "Aphelia ask the players" ist vielleicht eine Lösung, statt nur ein "player aks Aphelia".

Dann könnten all die guten Vorschläge der Spieler zu einem Problem an dem die Entwickler arbeiten berücksichtig werden.

 

 

Die Waldfee

 

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On 10/12/2022 at 6:57 PM, DannyUK said:

Please do something about the schematics, it is taking the fun away from the game, at least for me. ..

It is such a chore to check each machine,,,

 

I hate having to inspect each machine to figure out WTF is going on.

I wish they would update the status lights from just crappy Green / Red...
They could easily make it:

Red: out of material.

      Flashing: 1 hour has elapsed in this state.
Orange: output container full...

      Flashing: 1 hour has elapsed in this state.

Yellow: idling (maintain level reached)...

Green: Operating normally

      Flashing: All done.

Blue: Schematics Lacking.

     Flashing: 1 hour has elapsed in this state.N
Off: new machine or no task assigned. 

 

But this detail of development would likely require NQ to dedicate an entire team several weeks to achieving.

 

They could just leave it to us and make the damned light LUA controllable.


Damn. I've gone and added to the endless wishlists that fruitlessly populate this forum.

 

 

 

--edit... holy shitballs, I just looked carefully now and realised the machine's lights are THREE colours, not two....   An ever so slightly ruby shade of red means purposefully paused due to maintain limit reached and an ever so slightly orange shade of red means there's an error.

 

Never even noticed until now. LOL.

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On 10/12/2022 at 10:57 AM, DannyUK said:

It is such a chore to check each machine,

I am given to understand that the Schematic status of a machine is accessible through LUA. Surely there's a factory monitoring suite out there that can provide you with easy info.

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No need to sub in my case - but the only thing I did so far was to settle my out-of-the-box base and started to ask myself WHAT NOW ?

I'm totally lost and without a spark of motivation. But hey, I got a carpet !

 

Well, I like to dig for some reason - time to go back to DigDug then.

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8 hours ago, Captain Hills said:

No need to sub in my case - but the only thing I did so far was to settle my out-of-the-box base and started to ask myself WHAT NOW ?

I'm totally lost and without a spark of motivation. But hey, I got a carpet !

 

Hey I allmost crafted mining units L by now, I'm just so goddamn engaged man do I love setting the clock to myself, I was aching to log in thrice an evening to do the most basic shyte.

 

Can the bot orders run out before I sell some ore, doing at most 1 login per day, and planning at most 1 ingredient ahead?

 

I doubt I will get to see it because I can't justify spending another dac, and then I will miss out on the super rewards, and what's to bring me back then :D?!

 

checkmate

 

I am starting to feel a sense of relief.

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On 10/19/2022 at 5:34 PM, Kezzle said:

I am given to understand that the Schematic status of a machine is accessible through LUA. Surely there's a factory monitoring suite out there that can provide you with easy info.

Well as a new player I have no idea what that is. People shouldn't have to add third party software or mods whatever they are, they should be in the base game itself for everyone. You would still have to go to each machine to put them in anyway unless you know of something that I don't.

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41 minutes ago, DannyUK said:

People shouldn't have to add third party software or mods whatever they are, they should be in the base game itself for everyone.

 

NQ assumes LUA scripting as part of the base game. It was even one of the major selling points during the kickstarter.

 

43 minutes ago, DannyUK said:

You would still have to go to each machine to put them in anyway unless you know of something that I don't.

 

That is indeed a problem. The original industry mechanics was designed in a way that enables player to build factory lines with a single input and a single output where you don't need to care about individual industries. With the new schematics system this is pretty much broken - just for pure laziness. NQ changed the schematics system without changing the industries accordingly. Schematics have been turned into an additional resource but they can't be handled like other recources.

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17 hours ago, DannyUK said:

Well as a new player I have no idea what that is. People shouldn't have to add third party software or mods whatever they are, they should be in the base game itself for everyone. You would still have to go to each machine to put them in anyway unless you know of something that I don't.

As a new player, you still have stuff to learn. LUA is part of the in-game economy: a ship with a good HUD is literally worth more than the same elements and voxels with the default piloting interface.

 

Yes, you'd still need to go to each machine anyway, but that isn't what you said. You wanted help checking each machine.

 

Please don't get me wrong: I hate the idea of Schematics. They pretty much only suck, for reasons well-rehashed in many places. I was just offering you a way that you perhaps weren't aware of to ease some of their pain. Take it, or not.

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English (Translator used)

I propose to add a button in the industry element with which one can get to the schema menu in order to start the schemas there, which then automatically end up in the schema memory of the industry element.

 

Quote

 

German (original)

Ich schlage vor einen Knopf im Industrieelement hinzuzufügen mit dem man in das Schematamenü kommt, um dort die Schematas zu starten, die dann automatisch in dem Schemataspeicher des Industrieelements landen.

 

 

Die Waldfee
 

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On 10/10/2022 at 2:02 PM, Atmosph3rik said:

I'm still processing huge amounts of T1 in my Nanopack because it doesn't really feel like it would be any faster or more convenient to use a Refiner when i have to constantly produce more schematics and resupply them.

 

You don't need schematics for T1 pures, only for the products and end products.

 

As for the whole schematic discussion, my biggest complaint is having to manually put schematics on every machine to keep them running, instead of having a central schematic bank on the Core Unit instead. That's probably the most annoying part. Copying the schematics honestly isn't a big deal, specially when you can do it overnight, just need to plan yourself first.

 

The costs are a problem for larger elements, though, and sometimes I feel NQ should've made a few elements into separate categories, like decorative elements. Having the same schematic for a T2 Container/Engine L and a Vertical Light L makes no sense, makes the lamps ridiculously expensive for what they are.

Edited by Wolfram
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13 hours ago, Wolfram said:

 

You don't need schematics for T1 pures, only for the products and end products.

 

As for the whole schematic discussion, my biggest complaint is having to manually put schematics on every machine to keep them running, instead of having a central schematic bank on the Core Unit instead. That's probably the most annoying part. Copying the schematics honestly isn't a big deal, specially when you can do it overnight, just need to plan yourself first.

 

The costs are a problem for larger elements, though, and sometimes I feel NQ should've made a few elements into separate categories, like decorative elements. Having the same schematic for a T2 Container/Engine L and a Vertical Light L makes no sense, makes the lamps ridiculously expensive for what they are.

 

 

It's the T1 Products though.  I finally had to set up some Smelters, but i feel like i spend half my time queuing up T1 product schematics now.  For Steel, Silumin, AlFe, Polycarb, Glass.  It's rough.

 

The thing that has really been frustrating me lately is the odd number of schematics that it requires to produce some things.  Why do i need 15 schematics to run a batch of Scrap?  Or 18 to run a batch of Honeycomb?  Why not just make the schematics more expensive, or take longer to produce, or both?

 

Why does one batch produce 25 T2 scrap schematics and then it requires 15 of them to run one batch of scrap?  

 

Why does scrap require schematics in the first place?

 

I think the idea of needing schematics to produce actual elements is great, if you want to make one element, you need one schematic first.  That makes sense.  I can plan for that in my head without my brain melting.  But i don't think we should need schematics to process things like ore, product materials, honeycomb, scrap, or fuel.  

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Just like most aspects of this game that were tacked on in the last couple of years, they were done so purely to reduce server load.
 

There was nothing (major) in the recent updates designed to actually improve the player experience, or to support the lore of the game, or to improve the logic. Purely cost savings.

 

The “why?” Is because it was easier for them that way. That’s why you cant request a batch of just 10m3 of T2 honeycomb but get 432 or something in one go, taking 3 minutes and multiple “schematics”. 
 

As for queuing T1 schemes, 
 

Whenever my guy’s nano is idle i queue up all the T1 products. He can make them as fast as an industrial unit can and in much more precise amounts. I’ve saved well over half to nearly 2/3 of our T1 schematics that way and can use my five schematics queues for more valuable, longer stuff. 

the fact that we need schematics for anything we can make in our Nanopack, especially T1 intermediaries is ridiculous, IMHO. 

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2 hours ago, Jinxed said:

Whenever my guy’s nano is idle i queue up all the T1 products. He can make them as fast as an industrial unit can and in much more precise amounts. I’ve saved well over half to nearly 2/3 of our T1 schematics that way and can use my five schematics queues for more valuable, longer stuff. 

the fact that we need schematics for anything we can make in our Nanopack, especially T1 intermediaries is ridiculous, IMHO. 

 

Agree with you whole hearted

 

I am doing the exact some thing, anything i can craft in my nanopack, especially t1 mats and parts that need a schematic in industry. This should be an easy fix but i doubt we will see it but its just crazy that for every 70 liters of steel I need a schematic, thats already 3 schematics for this product for a basic container S that drives the worth of those boxes up exponentially while making all the parts in my nanocrafter and Only the box itself in the assembler is no problem at all. Dont even to lua that as i have done it so often alreadu its about 30 to 60 seconds to get the whole list in the nanocrafter, building takes about 30 minutes and then all mats are used for the final construct.

 

How can we make stuff overly complex...well like this we can.

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16 hours ago, Jinxed said:

Whenever my guy’s nano is idle i queue up all the T1 products. He can make them as fast as an industrial unit can and in much more precise amounts. I’ve saved well over half to nearly 2/3 of our T1 schematics that way and can use my five schematics queues for more valuable, longer stuff.

 

Yep, that's what I do as well. Nanocrafting beeing better than industry should tell NQ that something went terribly wrong. At least T1 product material schematics need to go immediately.

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Research Unit 

  • Static core unit only  
  • Requires all the plasmas or some of them 
  • Made with all exotic items 
  • Feed it items outputs originals or feeding input items or possible scrap of that tier of item (You can also set the inputs to give different tier of original schematic and option to have it consume all the items with no output to increase chances of higher tier)
  • Item is not claimable by someone else if tile is stolen in TU warfare 
  • Original schematics can run in factory but is fraction of copies that can be made of it done in the research unit 
  • talents for improving tier chances 

This system would be an element that can be made and used to create original schematics. It would help to cut down the costs for factory's but still requires players to make the items and participate in the market and PVP 

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32 minutes ago, MissingPackage said:

Research Unit 

  • Static core unit only  
  • Requires all the plasmas or some of them 
  • Made with all exotic items 
  • Feed it items outputs originals or feeding input items or possible scrap of that tier of item (You can also set the inputs to give different tier of original schematic and option to have it consume all the items with no output to increase chances of higher tier)
  • Item is not claimable by someone else if tile is stolen in TU warfare 
  • Original schematics can run in factory but is fraction of copies that can be made of it done in the research unit 
  • talents for improving tier chances 

This system would be an element that can be made and used to create original schematics. It would help to cut down the costs for factory's but still requires players to make the items and participate in the market and PVP 

No.

 

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14 hours ago, Jinxed said:

We have to be careful, tho.. NQ will read this thread as an immediate need to nerf the nano pack. 

Nah, they think that just having it be a batch process that can't feed other processes while you're offline is enough of a nerf.

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On 10/25/2022 at 1:53 PM, Atmosph3rik said:

The thing that has really been frustrating me lately is the odd number of schematics that it requires to produce some things.  Why do i need 15 schematics to run a batch of Scrap?  Or 18 to run a batch of Honeycomb?  Why not just make the schematics more expensive, or take longer to produce, or both?

 

Why does one batch produce 25 T2 scrap schematics and then it requires 15 of them to run one batch of scrap? 

 

This part, at least, is fairly easy to explain.

 

One schematic is required for each batch of output, full stop, no exceptions (that I am aware of).

 

What *does* change is the number of batches that any industry unit will run in one go. This is calculated as "how many batches of this output can I create in under 3 minutes?" So e.g. if a batch takes 30 seconds to run, you can do 6 in 3 minutes. So the total run time will be 3 minutes, you'll produce 6 batches, and so you'll use up 6 schematics. Its still 1 schematic per batch, but you've run 6 of these at the same time, and so it costs 6 schematics.

Later, if you train talents that reduce the time taken to produce 1 batch, it may be that you can now run 12 batches in under 3 minutes. In this situation a single run will now cost 12 schematics as it is producing 12 batches. If you have an output that takes more than 3 minutes, you'll just produce 1 output for 1 schematic.

 

So it's still 1 schematic 1 batch, but you're running more batches in the 3 minutes cutoff.

 

The benefits of this approach are all input/output/speed talents applying to your industry (and being able to run parallel industry). The downside is that your minimum production size is increased.

 

Hope this helps.

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On 10/26/2022 at 7:20 AM, Maxim Kammerer said:

 

Yep, that's what I do as well. Nanocrafting beeing better than industry should tell NQ that something went terribly wrong. At least T1 product material schematics need to go immediately.

 

I can see NQ wanting to schematic-limit inputs and outputs. The outputs are the end elements, and these all have schematics. The inputs **should** be all the pures, however NQ didn't want to put schematics on T1 pures (imho) to avoid scaring newbies. For this reason (imho) they put schematics on all products as well as pures, simply so they had something at the T1 level (and as a result we have an unfortunate doubling up of schematics on pures/products as inputs). Really the schematics should just be on all pures (as the primary input).

 

Arguably you get finer control over balancing costs/timers on inputs if there are two layers.

Arguably they didn't want people making factories that just started from pures. (This argument doesn't hold.)

But IMHO I think they doubled up on pures/products to avoid scaring newbies on T1 pures while still wanting schematics for T1 inputs.

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6 hours ago, MissingPackage said:

 

 

We don't need more ways for the rich to get richer. They're doing just fine on their own. 

 

Also, TU warfare doesn't exist. 

 

Now if you wanted to propose a research tool for the general public, that'd be something else entirely. Eve has various systems that feature that.

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29 minutes ago, Tional said:

 

We don't need more ways for the rich to get richer. They're doing just fine on their own. 

 

Also, TU warfare doesn't exist. 

 

Now if you wanted to propose a research tool for the general public, that'd be something else entirely. Eve has various systems that feature that.

Well perhaps they can make it more accessible to the masses to help balance things 

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Just produce everything you can in nanopack, schematics should leave this game asap, a month in DU and we are nowhere near results and builds we were in beta, the grind is real and people already burned up and left.

This is becoming more of an academic study into how to run a server at cheapest cost then to actually build a game people can enjoy.

 

Best part is that the player should be center of it all but at the moment the whole game would die without bots and npc missions.

 

So you had a game and pretended to have topnotch server tech and everyone was happy, then found out the server tech was not that great and instead of working on it you just shifted the server to a cheapass country and killed almost all features that took server cap, limited features and everything else and called it game improvements.

Please remember that most here play as they have free gametime but one day the dac pond will be empty. 

if your gameplay is then still ruled by countless limitations based on server load and the servertech is still the same, what will happen then?

 

God forbit we get a drastic increase of players, there is not much left to limit for reduced server strain.

 

Still love the concept and the possibilities but its getting rather thin with these "improvements"

 

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Honestly, schematics are not as bad as they initially were. I would love to see them changed such that if you are using an industry element to create something that is a lower tier than itself, it doesn't require a schematic.

 

Ex: Use a T1 smelter to make a T1 product = need a T1 product schematic.

Ex: Use a T2 smelter to make a T1 product = no need for a T1 schematic.

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