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Get rid of schematics already.


DealerSix

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Schematics are just stupid. Remove them already and fire the person that came up with that idea, thanks. 

1. Way too expensive to be considered a "useful" game loop
2. Only being craftable in inventory is beyond frustrating for your smaller/casual audience.

It will kill your game in the long run. How is money distributed to players? By selling ores to bots? *Insert big brain .jpg here*
So the entire goal of this game is to grind T1 ore to sell it to bots, to be able to afford schematics for their production. Buying stuff/parts from other players in the markets isnt worth it since they will put the schematic price on top.

I quit during alpha/beta when schematics were introduced and came back to review this on release. This system is still beyond garbage, considering I have to manually look up all the schematics needed for a product. Should at least give people the option to "Que up all required schematics for this element" button.

Cheers

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2 hours ago, DealerSix said:

Schematics are just stupid. Remove them already and fire the person that came up with that idea, thanks. 

1. Way too expensive to be considered a "useful" game loop
2. Only being craftable in inventory is beyond frustrating for your smaller/casual audience.

It will kill your game in the long run. How is money distributed to players? By selling ores to bots? *Insert big brain .jpg here*
So the entire goal of this game is to grind T1 ore to sell it to bots, to be able to afford schematics for their production. Buying stuff/parts from other players in the markets isnt worth it since they will put the schematic price on top.

I quit during alpha/beta when schematics were introduced and came back to review this on release. This system is still beyond garbage, considering I have to manually look up all the schematics needed for a product. Should at least give people the option to "Que up all required schematics for this element" button.

Cheers

 

Is it because you want to make everything?  I see schematics as if your solo you can focus in one area.  Collectively you can do much much more.  Quanta was too freely avalaible previously as a combo if missions, one time schematics obtaining and more.

 

Although duration/cost is a burden there have been hints at talents reducing this.

 

Honvik

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2 hours ago, Honvik said:

 

Quanta was too freely avalaible previously as a combo if missions

 

 

 

And here is the problem, who ever invented those npc missions in a sandbox does not understand the concept of a sandbox. those should be scrapped at once and with that the need for a quanta sink, the scematics.

 

 

still funny to see those missions here, probably they are still used to scam the place and make millions by loopholes. npc missions in a game with no npc's is just not logical.

 

So what you are saying that instead of fixing the problem: missions bringing in too many quanta

NQ just created an additional issue.

 

Great!  then by killing both the missions and the schematics we are back where we began and there is no issue, and a cleaner more effective game, less database and server load, more efficient gameplay, less friction and irritation

 

What level of designer should come up with that idea?

 

 

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18 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

 

And here is the problem, who ever invented those npc missions in a sandbox does not understand the concept of a sandbox. those should be scrapped at once and with that the need for a quanta sink, the scematics.

 

 

still funny to see those missions here, probably they are still used to scam the place and make millions by loopholes. npc missions in a game with no npc's is just not logical.

 

So what you are saying that instead of fixing the problem: missions bringing in too many quanta

NQ just created an additional issue.

 

Great!  then by killing both the missions and the schematics we are back where we began and there is no issue, and a cleaner more effective game, less database and server load, more efficient gameplay, less friction and irritation

 

What level of designer should come up with that idea?

 

 

Less space $$ to be made -> no need for schematics -> player driven markets. Cant call this game sandbox if missions or selling ore to bots is mandatory to play the game.

Edited by DealerSix
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19 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

Great!  then by killing both the missions and the schematics we are back where we began and there is no issue, and a cleaner more effective game, less database and server load, more efficient gameplay, less friction and irritation

 

Trouble is, schematics are the cause of the need for the quanta faucet to be quite so wide-bore. Their initial design purpose was to impose a throttle on the amount of active Industry by gating it behind paywalls that were unbreachable by any but the largest of orgs (who could do it fairly trivially, thus cementing their position as the Kings of Commerce, and being the only game in player-town that counted for anything; everyone else just quit). So they rowed it back to being "cheaper to get into, but an ongoing expense", which meant that everyone and their dog just sells their spare T1 dross to the game to be able to afford to run their industry.

 

We've yet, I think, to see whether the industry that is forced to lie idle by the combination of quantum choke and players' inability and unwillingness to wrestle with handling Schematics for large Industry setups will save the servers from a premature stroke. If it doesn't (and I fear it won't) then the chicken/egg dichotomy doesn't really matter, either.

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Schematics for end products seems fine.

 

But with the system as it is, using schematics for producing Pures and Products kind of sucks.

 

I'm still processing huge amounts of T1 in my Nanopack because it doesn't really feel like it would be any faster or more convenient to use a Refiner when i have to constantly produce more schematics and resupply them.

 

One complaint i do have in general, is that it seems like in some cases Schematics were used to add an additional layer of rebalancing on top of recipe cost, that just feels weird.  When i go to craft Medium Fuel Tanks, and the Atmo and Space variants both have the exact same recipe, it's a little weird to discover that the schematic for the space version costs twice as much.  And takes twice as long to produce.

 

There are also recipes, like the Territory Unit, where it just feels like the time and cost of the schematic was over inflated to compensate for the recipe itself being easier to produce.  Which makes it an unpleasant surprise when you decide to craft something yourself, only to discover that it's actually a lot more expensive to craft then the recipe alone would lead you to believe.

 

 

 

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Interesting consequence: the cost of Schematics inflates prices on the Markets because the producers have to recoup the cost of their Schems as well as that of their mats (and their profit), while notionally reducing the money supply. Which just makes things more expensive for the poor schmos (Guilty, y'r'onner) who are bumbling about, finding things out, working ad hoc and scraping by with rent and a few schematics, without materially affecting the ultra-industrialists who have Plans For Everything and Spreadsheets Up the Wazoo (and all kudos to them for that; those mega-factories are impressive pieces of work, and keeping them Schematiced must take scrupulous record keeping and attention to detail), since they have worked their way to the point of having enough cashflow to continuously stack 5 slots of scores of batches of the Schematics they need, so they don't even need to pay us poor Schmos for our precious, limited schematic slots.

 

Now, this may sound like the tiniest violin: "Oh, won't somebody think of the little people!? Life is so hard for them!" but that's not the point I'm making. The point is: if schematics are meant to inhibit the growth of industry, their efficacy is going to depend on the proportion of industry that's run by "mooks like me", against that run by "scarily efficient magnates". Having seen the size and complexity of some of the industrial complexes, I think the super-efficient folk run orders of magnitude more machine-hours per player-week than doofuses like me. And that makes me think that schematics are going to be no use at all in throttling industry's server load.

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4 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

Which makes it an unpleasant surprise when you decide to craft something yourself, only to discover that it's actually a lot more expensive to craft then the recipe alone would lead you to believe.

 

In the original anouncment of the new schematics system it reads "Copying schematic batches will cost time and a small amount of quanta." I wonder if they just failed at balacing or if the "small amount" was a downright lie from the beginning.

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Schemitics reduce server load by simultaneously inflating the cost of products while at the same time reducing spare ℏ. 
 

They also significantly reduce fun.  I’ve spent a really dull hours just trying to scrape together enough ℏ with the tiny fragments of what remains of our org by surface scavenging the shit out of everywhere I have permission. 
 

It’s worse than mining used to be. 
 

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The whole premise of “entirely player driven and built” is a laughing stock. 

 

bots control our hex-rent. Bots control our schematics. Bots control our sales taxes. Bots hand out and receive missions. Bots sell pretty much everything anyone needs. Bots buy stupid almost unlimited amounts of ore and bots hand out a daily stipend. And bots control whether or not we can fire weapons. 
 

what is there actually left to play and strive for other than building?

 

why is there no energy required to run anything? Why is there no oxygen requirements for our habitats?

why is there no food or farming? 
 

why are there no threatening box life forms that raid our camps?

 

why are there no mysteries beyond a few lowest possible effort alien cores?

 



 

what an absolute joke. 

 

 

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I absolutely get the intention of the schematics system. Without some kind of non-resource based limitation on production, it's possible to infinitely increase the size of your factory until a single player is capable of producing every manufacturable good in the game; something which really should only be possible for organized groups of players. By making players work out a production niche for themselves, they're encouraging us to use the market to sell our excess and to buy what we don't make ourselves. This would be a good way to keep the economy healthy. If few people are producing something, the cost will rise and more people will be encouraged to retool to take advantage. That seems to me to be a smart way to keep the economy balanced once there are enough people regularly producing. However, I also think the current implementation of the schematics system is unnecessarily restrictive and will generate massive tedium for players; I also believe - but am not yet 100% certain - that there's a pretty significant bug in the system.

 

The biggest problem is the constant drain on assets. I've been selling much of what I produce and even have a small factory set up for the sole purpose of selling everything I make. The things I'm selling have a high markup, but I'm still struggling to make a lasting profit. I also agree with others who argue that it's such a massive pain to run out of schematics for one single pure or product - which is easy to do given how there's no way to check how many schematics a given refiner has left except manually or to let refineries pull schematics from a common container. I don't have a large factory yet, but I can already imagine the constant hassle of individually checking dozens of refiners & smelters to ensure that they have enough schematics to last until the next time I can check. 

 

And what's worse, I've recently found that sometimes my entire queue of schematics will simply disappear as if they were never queued up. I wasn't certain that I had actually queued up the schematics at first (as I have 3 characters, it can sometimes be a little confusing as to who was doing what), but the aforementioned for-profit factory is on another planet and has a dedicated alt so I'm now sure that this is occurring; as I only needed one particular schematic to keep running, so I queued up a single batch 5 times before I logged out earlier and again, the queue is gone. Add this in with the times I thought I logged back in to an empty queue, but was unsure that I'd actually queued schematics up and this has likely cost me millions alone; but I've never seen it mentioned as a known issue.

 

Bugs aside, my suggestion would be to do one of two things:

 

1) Remove all quanta costs for schematics, but leave the time requirement. This will still limit the overall capacity of a given player's factory, but will not constantly impoverish players who are trying to get started. Schematics will still have a market value because players who want to expand their industrial capacity beyond what their personal schematics generation can support will want them. This would also make them a more viable source of income for players who are less interested in industry.

 

2) Remove all schematics except those used in Assembly Lines. Players would still need to plan which schematics they need and it will make retooling to a new niche somewhat more time consuming (but still worthwhile) but will dramatically reduce the tedium of running larger factories.

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Niches are nice.

 

But I think they would be better created by revising the Talent trees. Currently, the difference between 4 and 5 in a skill is small, and the cost, in the grand scheme of things, likewise. I think there should be more trees with more specialised additional "advanced" trees dependent on them, priced in TP such that you have to dedicate yourself to one branch for a good while, but which give significant advantages to go with.

 

Well, ideally, I'd like some sort of at-least-somewhat-player-skill-based interaction so personal practice makes you better at making better stuffs, but that's the realm of fanciful wishful thinking as far as DU goes...

 

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Please do something about the schematics, it is taking the fun away from the game, at least for me. They run out in no time and you're waiting around on items only to find out the schematics have ran out and wasted time waiting.

 

There needs to be something that automatically orders the schematic for you for that item when you have the funds to do so. It is such a chore to check each machine, it is deflating me from getting involved in factory process but you are forced to so you can make the resources to build with.

 

I hope they fix this madness

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nope, not fix schematics, kill schematics. first try in fixing them resulted in this mess I really do not want to know how many development hours were put in this but their time is precious and should go to more needed things like ava or whatever.  schematics have had a chance, two times the testers told NQ the proposed system sucked, two times nobody listened, lets not do this again, just delete the whole idea, give a bonus to whoever does that and...Move on.

 

probably server costs will be lower without schematics so make your investors proud!!! kill schematics

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On 10/11/2022 at 12:02 AM, Jinxed said:

bots control our hex-rent. Bots control our schematics. Bots control our sales taxes. Bots hand out and receive missions. Bots sell pretty much everything anyone needs. Bots buy stupid almost unlimited amounts of ore and bots hand out a daily stipend. And bots control whether or not we can fire weapons. 

The current devs are utterly incompetent.

 

I quit playing again because I got fed up with dealing with schematics. Pures and alloys should never need them, at the least.

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There are logic diagrams from the developer's point of view. And here all these arguments have already been described.
But my God. Until now, not to make a container for circuits or something like that, so as not to push them manually into the machines ...
It's just a shame.
Change core gameplay and don't provide tools...
I sometimes get the feeling that this game was created not for the pleasure of people, but for their suffering. And we are all a bunch of masochists...

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Well I have gone back to Satisfactory for a fresh start until they sort things out. I started off enjoying it until I realised how many of these schematics you have to buy and put them in each machine, it is just silly.

 

I'm not going to pay a subscription for not enjoying myself, hopefully they fix these issues relatively quickly as the game itself has potential.

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10 hours ago, ColonkinYT said:

Until now, not to make a container for circuits or something like that, so as not to push them manually into the machines ...
It's just a shame.
Change core gameplay and don't provide tools...

Again: if they make automation tools for schematics, they instantly remove half the intended point of them. Not that I think the mechanic actually works: those organised mega-engineers whose awesome, monstrous hyperfactories running 24/7/52 are the ones really beating the heck out of the servers will be organised and driven enough to manage their schematic needs. It's the mere humans who'd never collect enough machines to trouble the servers who will suffer.

Edited by Kezzle
Spuling mustic
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On 10/11/2022 at 3:32 AM, Devilishlydont said:

Bugs aside, my suggestion would be to do one of two things:

 

1) Remove all quanta costs for schematics, but leave the time requirement. This will still limit the overall capacity of a given player's factory, but will not constantly impoverish players who are trying to get started. Schematics will still have a market value because players who want to expand their industrial capacity beyond what their personal schematics generation can support will want them. This would also make them a more viable source of income for players who are less interested in industry.

 

2) Remove all schematics except those used in Assembly Lines. Players would still need to plan which schematics they need and it will make retooling to a new niche somewhat more time consuming (but still worthwhile) but will dramatically reduce the tedium of running larger factories.

 

Brilliant, love this.

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On 10/13/2022 at 8:02 PM, Kezzle said:

Again: if they make automation tools for schematics, they instantly remove half the intended point of them. Not that I think the mechanic actually works: those organised mega-engineers whose awesome, monstrous hyperfactories running 24/7/52 are the ones really beating the heck out of the servers will be organised and driven enough to manage their schematic needs. It's the mere humans who'd never collect enough machines to trouble the servers who will suffer.

Reading different topics, it always seems to me that the developers are fighting with the players instead of giving them opportunities ...
That is impossible, there are too smart players. It must be limited, it must be cut, it must be banned and removed.
Regarding schematics. If the purpose of their introduction was to make people hate the game, then yes. The developers will definitely achieve their goal.
Several of my friends who played on the beta entered the game, found out that the schemes remained and mining on the planets was not returned and did not enter the game anymore. Each of them had several characters.
Everyone talks about what we need to understand developers. OK. When will they begin to understand us, the players?
It's like they're trying to sew up our mouths instead of dieting...

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3 hours ago, ColonkinYT said:

Reading different topics, it always seems to me that the developers are fighting with the players instead of giving them opportunities ...
That is impossible, there are too smart players. It must be limited, it must be cut, it must be banned and removed.
Regarding schematics. If the purpose of their introduction was to make people hate the game, then yes. The developers will definitely achieve their goal.
Several of my friends who played on the beta entered the game, found out that the schemes remained and mining on the planets was not returned and did not enter the game anymore. Each of them had several characters.
Everyone talks about what we need to understand developers. OK. When will they begin to understand us, the players?
It's like they're trying to sew up our mouths instead of dieting...

I agree, it seems to me from reading the forums that they don't listen to the players and want to change or try new things. I started off enjoying it and the motivation slowly ebbed away through schematics alone and I haven't even gotten into other parts of the game yet.

 

What gets me is this game has been going for 6 years hasn't it? I dredd to think what it was like years ago because there doesn't seem to be enough in the game over the 6 years. The land is empty with only surface mining rocks. Why couldn't they have added creatures or some form of NPC to kill and harvest parts etc. Many ideas could be implemented into the game it is shocking how it has gone 6 years and in the state it is now.

 

I may come back to it in the future, I maybe could forgive them if the game was free to play but I for one will not be spending on subscriptions every month to not enjoy it. I hope things change especially to schematics but given it has taken 6 years to get to this I won't hold my breath.

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