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Exploit with mining units


DannyUK

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11 hours ago, Wyndle said:

Because they explicitly stated it wasn't an exploit it is listed as an improvement to clamp down on that faucet.

This exactly. NQ explicitly stated calibration mining was valid - and less efficient long term (so there was a cost to doing so).
 

Not to mention, there are few practical ways to get T2+ ore right now given the extremely low ore rates. 
 

NQ should refund talent points invested for calibration mining.

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Talent points in any game represent progression and outline the unique path selected by the player. I strongly believe that talent resets/refunds should not be issued lightly because doing so takes away the significance behind those carefully thought out decisions. Ideally it should be reserved for situations in which said talent no longer reflects the choice made by said player at the time. Where the change is so drastic that the meaning/description itself is fundamentally different. There is no point in even having a talent system if every time a new meta comes arround refunds get issued to allow everyone to spec into it.

 

If you are advocating for a talent refund then I would like to hear your thoughts on the above. Do you agree with my stance? How does this recent change impact you specifically? What would you do if a refund were issued and what would you do if it is not?

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1 hour ago, Msoul said:

Talent points in any game represent progression and outline the unique path selected by the player. I strongly believe that talent resets/refunds should not be issued lightly because doing so takes away the significance behind those carefully thought out decisions. Ideally it should be reserved for situations in which said talent no longer reflects the choice made by said player at the time. Where the change is so drastic that the meaning/description itself is fundamentally different. There is no point in even having a talent system if every time a new meta comes arround refunds get issued to allow everyone to spec into it.

 

If you are advocating for a talent refund then I would like to hear your thoughts on the above. Do you agree with my stance? How does this recent change impact you specifically? What would you do if a refund were issued and what would you do if it is not?

It’s simple. When NQ clearly states calibration mining is valid, then without prior notice change their minds (which is BS), they screw people out of weeks of TP training. Meta or not, there should be at least a partial refund of points. 

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7 hours ago, CyberDay said:

People wouldn't of sunk millions into buy and setting up tiles for specifically this?

But people had already done that before this change.  Just getting a warning wouldn't fix that.

 

People would have spammed calibrations to death while they had the chance while at the same time complaining and asking for a talent reset and/or refund on their tile.  Ore and other items would disappear from the markets because speculators buy it all.

 

TBH this was so obviously broken that everyone must have realised it would be fixed sooner or later.

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6 hours ago, zekkho said:

unfortunaly, you can't calibrate if your mining extracor is not runing, and you can't start your mining extractor if you have 0L remaining...

Again, no way of testing myself til probably Saturday evening now, so I'm asking...: When does that "0L remaining" reset if you remove the MUs that are "pointing" at that ore? Say I set up 2 MUs on an 80L Coal tile to suck all the Coal out of a territory (say one does 60, the other clears up the last 20), if I pick those MUs up, when does the "ore remaining" go back up? Is it that number that's associated with the cooldown?

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This change is really a good thing.
Someone who really owns a flower of 7 tiles will finally be able to be rewarded for their investment.
On a flower of 7 if you only have one T2 / T3 or T4, you can do a calibration on each tile every 24 hours. This allows you to use 49 calibrations. Which makes a good bundle of ore.

And of course you actively participate in the game:
- You have to pay taxes like everyone else (which helps keep the price high for higher tier minerals)
- You must buy and install mining pods, so invest in several mining units and not just one.
- You are encouraged to go to outer rim planets to get tiles, and therefore either use cell warps or take the risk of crossing the PvP zone. This leads to interactions between players.

In short, only advantages for the balancing of the game with these changes.

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2 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

This post is sofar from reality that i cannot even start to comment this, but apparently you dont know about the cast and time sinks that are also in place and that the now scrapped mechanism was the only thing still keeping industry viable.

 

Except it was highly abused.  I know of multiple people who have billions made from high tier ore farms that had 1/2 l of T4/5.  It was not intended gameplay and NQ had to do something to balance the economy before it was too late.

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9 minutes ago, Honvik said:

 

Except it was highly abused.  I know of multiple people who have billions made from high tier ore farms that had 1/2 l of T4/5.  It was not intended gameplay and NQ had to do something to balance the economy before it was too late.

Billions from selling Titanium? since thats the only T5  that you can currently calibrate in game. And the only thing you can make with that is Mining units, Scrap, and honeycomb.  Now Cryolite and Cobaltite are the ony 2 T4's that you can calibrate with. Which you would need to calibrate 3,000,000l of the stuff to get billions.

 

I have no doubt that the friends you know have billions of quanta. But I doubt they made those billions by single calibration tiles. Did they make a profit from being able to do so? yes. But they would have made more with those calibrations if they had a proper flower setup.

 

The only people this change helps is people who where early and got proper tiles setup in the first place. But it hurts so many more people who formed there entire game play from calibration hexes. 

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5 minutes ago, RugesV said:

Billions from selling Titanium? since thats the only T5  that you can currently calibrate in game. And the only thing you can make with that is Mining units, Scrap, and honeycomb.  Now Cryolite and Cobaltite are the ony 2 T4's that you can calibrate with. Which you would need to calibrate 3,000,000l of the stuff to get billions.

 

I have no doubt that the friends you know have billions of quanta. But I doubt they made those billions by single calibration tiles. Did they make a profit from being able to do so? yes. But they would have made more with those calibrations if they had a proper flower setup.

 

The only people this change helps is people who where early and got proper tiles setup in the first place. But it hurts so many more people who formed there entire game play from calibration hexes. 

 

Not friends but people do like to show off.  Correct they have done so and even some prominent people have shown off how much of ores they have managed to grab via this bug/unintended issue.  Cobalite is certainly 1 used in Rare stuff so it is in high demand.  T5's not so much except fo hoarding or making honeycomb.   Of course someone had to make the quanta to pay them and done via missions.

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12 hours ago, ColonkinYT said:

Thanks NQ! You helped me make my choice.
Subscription ends on the 27th. And now there is no doubt about the choice at all.
😉

Yeah i finally ran out of copium aswell. Don't forget to dump ur stuff on your haven/sanct territory in case you ever want to come back. I'm leaving probably permanently Nov 23rd with sub end.

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18 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

But people had already done that before this change.  Just getting a warning wouldn't fix that.

 

People would have spammed calibrations to death while they had the chance while at the same time complaining and asking for a talent reset and/or refund on their tile.  Ore and other items would disappear from the markets because speculators buy it all.

 

TBH this was so obviously broken that everyone must have realised it would be fixed sooner or later.

It sure seems like the majority of the player base saw this as a way for them to be even remotely relevent compared to the orgs that have already scanned out planets and got the pick of the litter of tiles. As the player population drops more and more, you can keep telling yourself how great these changes are. There is no new blood coming into the game, and we are slowly losing vets who are tired of updates being catered to the large orgs. 

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41 minutes ago, CyberDay said:

It sure seems like the majority of the player base saw this as a way for them to be even remotely relevent compared to the orgs that have already scanned out planets and got the pick of the litter of tiles. As the player population drops more and more, you can keep telling yourself how great these changes are. There is no new blood coming into the game, and we are slowly losing vets who are tired of updates being catered to the large orgs. 

Perhaps.  Personally I saw it as a terrible mechanic that made asteroids and territory ownership irrelevant and flooded the markets with ore, pushing the price down.  But I also felt I had to do all my calibrations to keep up.  Now I don't have to any more and that's fine.

 

These are great changes.  I don't have to keep telling myself that but I will keep telling *you*.

 

I know plenty of people who got flowers and tiles.  None of them are in big orgs (although for sure the big orgs did some organised things and scanned a lot of tiles).  It was also possible to be good at the game and use shortcuts to get the tiles with less scanning, but there are a lot of people who just blindly scanned whole wedges of tiles in the wrong place and complained about how they scanned hundreds of tiles and got nothing.  Those people are just not as good at the game and that's why they didn't get good tiles.

 

The good news is that they will get another chance to be good at it when the next wedge of planets get released.

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These changes will also increase T1 sales. My mining patch on Alioth is primarily Hematite with Quartz as a secondary. When I went back to do the calibration I stopped the autominer and selected Bauxite or Coal (whichever I needed at the time) did the calibration, went back to Hematite or Quartz and started the miner. This eventually didn't supply me with all the Bauxite/Coal I needed, but it went a LONG way. Now I'm 'forced' to calibrate what I mine, which is more logical imho, but also annoying! 😉

 

It does lead to less work (not having to stop and start each miner), but it means I'll have to trade Hematite and Quartz for Bauxite and Coal, which is more work in turn... Sure I could also mine the Bauxite and Coal, but that's often not even half an autominer, imho a waste of resources.

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On 11/18/2022 at 3:30 PM, Doombad said:

People running missions are making billions. People hand calibration mining are not. Charges are limited and throttled.

 

This change only hurts solo players, new players, and small orgs. 

Yep and thus these broken missions abused are Not looked at, the missions have been broken and exploided since day 1, and NQ was pointed at it for a billion ;) times but probably its loss of honour to acknowledge there is something so f.ing wrong with npc missions. Well, we are already setup for the next wipe and well the end of all

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This game isn't giving everyone a chance to compete. Only people that got the very few good tiles and the ones that can mine asteroid the couple of hours after they re-spawn have any chance. I spent many hours (like 40 or more) looking for good tiles to mine and found none. Now I'm wasting my time finding and scanning asteroids ( about 12 hours now) and have found nothing. The MU exploit was the only way I have found where I have a chance to compete. I cannot buy ore on the market to manufacture items because the one's that got the few good hexes are making and selling stuff cheaper than I can make it, even with my mostly lev 5 and a still a couple of lev 4 skills. Anyone that approves of this change are being selfish. As it stands now I spend most of my time in this game waiting on something to happen. It's a very boring game. The only reason I am playing is I love the complex crafting system and hoping NQ will expand the game to where I am actually doing something with my gaming time other than floating through space, waiting for something to finish crafting, waiting on a talent to finish etc...  I believe I'm in the majorly and if something isn't done about all the dead time spent playing  this game and giving everyone a chance to compete then it's going to fail. Something I hope doesn't happen.

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A friend of ours landed on a tile with 5/h Limestone on day one... He then just scanned around and now has 13 tiles in total... The ones he isnt using he has locked down with his Alts as HQ tiles to prevent others from claiming them. 

 

Due to the snowballing income from a fixed 20M ℏ a week contract for 200kL of Limestone, he has never had to struggle with cash and is basically set for (the) life (of this game).

 

It seems like he is playing a completely different game to us, spending millions on schematics every day whenever he needs one... He just casually plays with not a care in the world whereas myself and my org mate who have played since alpha are constantly struggling for the next week's quanta to pay the taxes on our tiles.


Just think, he randomly landed on a T2 tile on day one, now pulls in over 1500L of Limestone an hour (or 150kℏ an hour value at current market rates) and thus his entire gaming experience since that day forth was completely different to 95% of the other players.

 

What an odd game this is to allow a certain subset of their players to basically do whatever they want FOREVER and endlessly, while other players can barely afford to enjoy themselves and end up leaving after a couple of fruitless months.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jinxed said:

What an odd game this is to allow a certain subset of their players to basically do whatever they want FOREVER and endlessly, while other players can barely afford to enjoy themselves and end up leaving after a couple of fruitless months.

And what do you think will happen the day they turn on territory warfare?  All the people who hold producing land in non-safe space either leave or become legion.  Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't been paying attention.  Under the current system of poor resources if you add in the ability to lose your territory despite paying the tax would be the day DU collapses.  I was a champion for TW during Beta, but the current setup is so far removed from what we had that there is zero hope for DU should NQ enable TW now.

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1 hour ago, Wyndle said:

And what do you think will happen the day they turn on territory warfare?  All the people who hold producing land in non-safe space either leave or become legion.  Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't been paying attention.  Under the current system of poor resources if you add in the ability to lose your territory despite paying the tax would be the day DU collapses.  I was a champion for TW during Beta, but the current setup is so far removed from what we had that there is zero hope for DU should NQ enable TW now.

Well, we could hope that NQ recognise that pulling the safezone rug out from under people on established tiles (even if the rug in question is only there because of the game's incomplete state) wouldn't be... very popular. But that probably also means no Territory Warfare until a second system opens up, which realistically means it's never going to happen.

 

I mean, they could open up a new-new planet (cos the reinstatement of the ones that are currently MIA is going to happen before TerrWar is even in some testing phase)  in the current system with no safe-zone once they've got some sort of mechanic hashed out, but then they'd have to put something worth fighting over on it... And that is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

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