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[Post Wipe] How do you feel about warp beacons being gated by PvP?


Gravedigger1

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Im just wondering how does the general player base regard the idea that normal players may never have access to beacons if the PvP community decides to monopolize the element.
 

This is possible as beacons require octo plasma but only one group of players control its production and post wipe this could happen again.
 

any thoughts?

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I see Warp Beacons mainly used for PVP.

Sure you can use around alioth 100xxxx amount of warp beacons, but this is a Tier 5 Item, and shouldn't be so easily available.

Also for only PVE aspect is a luxurious item (T5).

 

Sure when you have a Base 20 su away from any planet, then you have to fly, but then you can ask yourself, do you want this really?

Also you can make a "warp break" for example warp from alioth to madis and break down at your space station.

 

Also normally there is so much production of Octo Plasma that Plasma or Warp beacon will be available sometime somehow on mass. You can calculate it yourself.

 

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I feel like a lot of people have really forgotten intent for this game was primarily focused on PvP/survival. I think the PvP community are the ones that have had to give up more than any other community in the game. We were told we would get Territory Warfare, instead they gave us Alien cores and said go play in a corner of the universe away from the rest of the community. We were told that survival outside the safe area that you start in would be "cut-throat" and you would definitely need to know what you were doing before venturing out away from that starting safe zone, instead they put a large safe bubble around EVERY planet and a HUGE safe zone that covers three different planets, they gave everyone the ability to completely skip any possible PvP risk by setting warp drives as a T3 element.

 

So from my standpoint, the beacons being PvP locked is the first step NQ has really ever taken to make PvP an actual part of the game and I hope they continue to gate more things behind PvP (or at least the risk of PvP).

And btw, I am currently on the side that doesn't hold any of the alien cores.

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1 hour ago, Deadrank said:

I feel like a lot of people have really forgotten intent for this game was primarily focused on PvP/survival. I think the PvP community are the ones that have had to give up more than any other community in the game. We were told we would get Territory Warfare, instead they gave us Alien cores and said go play in a corner of the universe away from the rest of the community. We were told that survival outside the safe area that you start in would be "cut-throat" and you would definitely need to know what you were doing before venturing out away from that starting safe zone, instead they put a large safe bubble around EVERY planet and a HUGE safe zone that covers three different planets, they gave everyone the ability to completely skip any possible PvP risk by setting warp drives as a T3 element.

 

So from my standpoint, the beacons being PvP locked is the first step NQ has really ever taken to make PvP an actual part of the game and I hope they continue to gate more things behind PvP (or at least the risk of PvP).

And btw, I am currently on the side that doesn't hold any of the alien cores.

 

Exactly, its become boring universe.  Yes in real life people want to be safe.  But when i log into a video game im looking for adventure because "death" is just a respawn away.  I have quit DU and dont plan on coming back because of complete boredom.  I'll might come back, but only if they drop all the safe zones except Haven/scan and then also limit the industry you can do on those starter moons.  

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3 minutes ago, PopsiclePete said:

 

What makes you think that? It's certainly not the case that PVP has ever been a "primary" focus. In fact, PVP was put in the perspective of the game as a whole, as one option available in the purpose of the game, which is to build civilizations and communities.

PVP in DU is a tool, a means to an end and not a goal in itself. That does not exclude a part of the player base making it THEIR goal, but it does set the function of the mechanic for the overall game. Combat PVP is part of DU, yes. It is not and never was the focus of the game. Games (especially MMO) which focus their gameplay on PVP generally do not last for very long.

 

Yes it was. They literally said that the only safe space would be Sanc and 20km around the ark ship.  The rest was in the pvp zone.  You could have temp safe zones. "protection bubbles" as they put it, that could provide for people and cities to grow, and then try to defend their home.  But PVP was always the focus in the original pitch.  Watch all the old alpha videos they say it plain as day.  JC even mentions EvE over and over which is about as pvp as it gets....ie. the whole gameworld has some sort of pvp in it.

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22 minutes ago, PopsiclePete said:

 

What makes you think that? It's certainly not the case that PVP has ever been a "primary" focus. In fact, PVP was put in the perspective of the game as a whole, as one option available in the purpose of the game, which is to build civilizations and communities.

PVP in DU is a tool, a means to an end and not a goal in itself. That does not exclude a part of the player base making it THEIR goal, but it does set the function of the mechanic for the overall game. Combat PVP is part of DU, yes. It is not and never was the focus of the game. Games (especially MMO) which focus their gameplay on PVP generally do not last for very long.


I guess it really depends on when start your evaluation of "what DU is about". If you start really early on, I think it was very PvP focused. As time progressed, the Devs began to shift focus and move their pitch away from it being a PvP game and more towards a building/industry type game. But I feel like that just showcases my point in that the PvP people (at least the long-time backers) are the ones that have given up the most in the game given the original promise, compared to other groups like industrialists or builders. In my opinion, I think anything tier 3 and above should only be accessible by doing activities that are inherently risky/could get you killed.

Regarding games that are PvP focused, I feel like there are definitely ones that have lasted quite a long time (eve as one example). Other MMOs that aren't PvP focused do have a PvE element in them that is actually challenging or risky. The PvE in Dual Universe presents no risk of loss in really any form. Without that risk, I fear the game will get very stale after the initial rush. I am really rooting for DU though, I think it can be a really good game!

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9 minutes ago, Deadrank said:

 The PvE in Dual Universe presents no risk of loss in really any form. Without that risk, I fear the game will get very stale after the initial rush. I am really rooting for DU though, I think it can be a really good game!

 

this right here.  IF there was actually good and challenging PVE then ok, like other games like WoW or other such games.  But it doesn't.  It was always billed as player driven.  This game needs PVP pretty much everywhere, at least the threat of it, and it desperately needs some more survival aspects and an Avatar that can die, ya know, from falling.  Maybe throw in some hostile enviroments, oxygen needed, whatever. Make it a game.  There is a reason that EvE online and Star Citizen has soooo much more money, way way way more money being given to them by players than DU does.  Its because for 1, it has pve.  But even more importantly, that PVE is in a pvp zone.  There are tools for player interactions.  DU wants to enable everyone to play a single player game in their own corner of alioth, and push pvpers to the outer reaches of space.  That hardly sounds like a cool single shard MMO to me.  It sounds like desperation from a game company that knows it cant scale and must push people away from each other, 

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Honestly, as the game stands I dont really see why the game should be a "single shard".  It makes more sense for DU financially to go the route of Space Engineers and Minecraft.  Make the players pay for servers, mod them, and dictate how they want them to be.  In no way shape or form does it show that NQ is utilizing their only strength, having everyone on 1 server shard.

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5 minutes ago, Noddles said:

Id say anything that requires t4+ should require you to entire pvp. If you want high amounts of t3 that should also be pvp. 

 

Or you know, everything should be in a pvp zone like other successful space games. EvE and Star Citizen.  SC if you mine, you can be shot.  In EvE if you mine you can be shot.  Funny how those games have such a strong backing, and one has been alive for decades.  Surely that cant have anything to do with it right?

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Just now, CousinSal said:

 

Or you know, everything should be in a pvp zone like other successful space games. EvE and Star Citizen.  SC if you mine, you can be shot.  In EvE if you mine you can be shot.  Funny how those games have such a strong backing, and one has been alive for decades.  Surely that cant have anything to do with it right?

Eh, theyd literally never go for that. 

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9 minutes ago, Noddles said:

Id say anything that requires t4+ should require you to entire pvp. If you want high amounts of t3 that should also be pvp. 

 

I could get behind that. Better than the current state either way. To be honest, I really wish they would make high tier items (ores, productes, elements, etc) non-warpable like mission packages. Similar to how Valheim prevents you from teleporting ore through portals. The fact that whoever holds the alien cores can warp out to the core, collect all the plasma it generated and then warp back to the safe zone all in less than 10 minutes is a pretty big oversight to me.

 

Edited by Deadrank
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7 hours ago, PopsiclePete said:

 

What makes you think that? It's certainly not the case that PVP has ever been a "primary" focus. In fact, PVP was put in the perspective of the game as a whole, as one option available in the purpose of the game, which is to build civilizations and communities.

PVP in DU is a tool, a means to an end and not a goal in itself. That does not exclude a part of the player base making it THEIR goal, but it does set the function of the mechanic for the overall game. Combat PVP is part of DU, yes. It is not and never was the focus of the game. Games (especially MMO) which focus their gameplay on PVP generally do not last for very long.

civilization requires strife in order to be honed. not one civilization is made from the beginning that didn't form from it. 

 

if you want to play a game with zero strife, go play space engineers on creative mode. Eve has been the longest lasting space game...guess what...pvp is the core element from the very bottom of the game to the very top.

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16 hours ago, CousinSal said:

Exactly, its become boring universe.  Yes in real life people want to be safe.  But when i log into a video game im looking for adventure because "death" is just a respawn away.  I have quit DU and dont plan on coming back because of complete boredom.  I'll might come back, but only if they drop all the safe zones except Haven/scan and then also limit the industry you can do on those starter moons.  

I suspect we will keep a smaller form of safe zone, such as limited to Alioth and its moons.  If my hunch is correct then Industry is already limited there due to ore distribution and auto-miner limitations.

 

8 hours ago, CousinSal said:

Or you know, everything should be in a pvp zone like other successful space games. EvE and Star Citizen.  SC if you mine, you can be shot.  In EvE if you mine you can be shot.  Funny how those games have such a strong backing, and one has been alive for decades.  Surely that cant have anything to do with it right?

I don't think you can use that three word combination on either named title.  Eve may be set in space with space travel elements but it is not even close to being a space game.  I'd say it's closer in nature to an auto-clicker economy spreadsheet game with heavy reliance on PvP to keep the economy in motion.  One could argue that SC isn't even a game yet, and we would have to define successful carefully for that word to be applied.

 

1 hour ago, PopsiclePete said:

Sure .. no argument there and what you say perfectly matches what I said.

 

 

 

EVE being the longest lasting space game is debatable and depends on how you define "space game".
 

I'd disagree there anyway. The economy is at the core of EVE as it drives pretty much everything that happens in game, then PvE as it feeds into it and then PVP as it takes from both and can't exist without either one. combat PVP in EVE is certainly under the control of politics and Economics. As I mentioned the smaller scale skirmishes/roams/camps and such are really not all that relevant in the bigger picture of the game. And in that perspective, I do hope DU can develop along a similar path, but it will take years.

 

A (traditional) stool cannot stand on one or two legs, it requires three.  Eve has three legs on its stool, being PvE, economy, and PvP.  One can play entirely PvE or PvP in Eve but both must interact with the economy.  PvE in high sec only is possible but an incredibly boring grind for inferior loots.   

 

Once we see the release version of DU I suspect we will see similar gating of the low quality, boring grind to the safe zone and anything worth working for will require risk.

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18 hours ago, Deadrank said:

I feel like a lot of people have really forgotten intent for this game was primarily focused on PvP/survival. I think the PvP community are the ones that have had to give up more than any other community in the game. We were told we would get Territory Warfare, instead they gave us Alien cores and said go play in a corner of the universe away from the rest of the community. We were told that survival outside the safe area that you start in would be "cut-throat" and you would definitely need to know what you were doing before venturing out away from that starting safe zone, instead they put a large safe bubble around EVERY planet and a HUGE safe zone that covers three different planets, they gave everyone the ability to completely skip any possible PvP risk by setting warp drives as a T3 element.

 

So from my standpoint, the beacons being PvP locked is the first step NQ has really ever taken to make PvP an actual part of the game and I hope they continue to gate more things behind PvP (or at least the risk of PvP).

And btw, I am currently on the side that doesn't hold any of the alien cores.

actually  Im fairly certain this is in accurate , fighters are listed as one aspect , there is also builders ,industry  . Besides , the pvp here is just incomplete , you want to throw in alien cores and say go fight got tier 5 resources now, that just a weak attempt .

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There will always be a safe zone, not only for beginners, but also for the builders, etc. To move this to only one moon would cost far too much performance, hence the expansion to 3 planets and its moons.

The outer planets will certainly be dropped if it becomes really relevant for PvP, whereby it would be better to drop this protection already with the release, so that there will be no problems later, because many players found these planets much nicer to build everything there. It is imperative that this is dealt with and explained honestly and clearly by NQ.

Otherwise PvP is not more important for the game itself than other areas. At the moment the PvP area is the biggest area in the game, as soon as the protection of the outer planets is removed, most of the planets will also be in this PvP zone. So why do people keep crying about it?

I really hope that NQ doesn't focus too much on Eve and uses that game as a model. NQ's goals should be clearly above Eve.

 

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