Jump to content

RESET NEWS ANNOUNCEMENT - Discussion thread


NQ-Nyota

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Wyndle said:

I can't (nor would I attempt) to change your feelings on it but I can explain my own thoughts.

 

NQ most likely has their hands tied with a make or break ultimatum.  DU is overdue for every previous release target they've stated and has probably been bleeding funds the whole time.  The first year of an officially released DU will be what decides its fate going forward.  I've spent more time typing the word "potential" and its synonyms into this forum than I've spent playing other games over the past several years so I've already subbed 13 months on 3 accounts despite not paying a sub the whole Beta.  

Oh i agree with you.  They have been cutting costs and trying to make the game financially viable for ages.. now they are forced to release despite the game not being ready.  The things i have a problem with is hidding that behind a 'reward' and the loads of people in this community defending it.

 

loads of people played and helped build this game for 2+ years... they will have all of their stuff deleted and then handed back based on how much they pay.... i know you get it....i understand it's a business.... but when people defend and pretend its not a thing i find it triggering.  NQ dont want long term (more than 13 months) subs.... they want short term money... that should worry people..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, LeoCora said:

Oh i agree with you.  They have been cutting costs and trying to make the game financially viable for ages.. now they are forced to release despite the game not being ready.  The things i have a problem with is hidding that behind a 'reward' and the loads of people in this community defending it.

 

loads of people played and helped build this game for 2+ years... they will have all of their stuff deleted and then handed back based on how much they pay.... i know you get it....i understand it's a business.... but when people defend and pretend its not a thing i find it triggering.  NQ dont want long term (more than 13 months) subs.... they want short term money... that should worry people..

It does worry me so I put my money where my mouth is.  I was 87% sure they would wipe for launch before 0.23 and 99.99999% sure after - so that aspect doesn't affect me emotionally.  The fact that they dragged it out this long tells me a lot about the remaining staff; more good than bad.  But I don't think they are not ready.  They've got more polishing to do but I have a feeling there are solid foundations ready to be put in place that we haven't seen yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Wyndle said:

It does worry me so I put my money where my mouth is.  I was 87% sure they would wipe for launch before 0.23 and 99.99999% sure after - so that aspect doesn't affect me emotionally.  The fact that they dragged it out this long tells me a lot about the remaining staff; more good than bad.  But I don't think they are not ready.  They've got more polishing to do but I have a feeling there are solid foundations ready to be put in place that we haven't seen yet.

The game is not feature complete therefore its not ready.  PVP is a shadow of what it was meant to be.  Most game mechanics are implemented at a very basic level.  Its not even beta at this moment.  

 

As for putting your money where your mouth is, that's not what this is about for me. for me it is a total disagreement with the practise of taking away everyones TP's (which was NEVER talked about before or even hinted at and please don't use the 'its a beta' argument...DU had bypassed the traditional alpha and beta rules) and then giving it back based on cash spent.  NOWHERE in the game was that ever mentioned as a possibility.  

 

Im not talking about what people are comfortable with or happy to accept.... im talking about the principle.  You agree above that its a financially motivated move..  thats all i have been saying... If some are happy with it great!!!  but it means I lose one of my alts and NQ lose a sub, no big deal to them.... i can't spare the cash to sub for 26 months between 2 accounts, so im glad you can, but for the rest of us we get screwed.  simple as that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, LeoCora said:

please don't use the 'its a beta' argument...DU had bypassed the traditional alpha and beta rules

I have been vocal on these forums for years applauding NQ for what I perceived as correct use of Alpha and Beta nomenclature compared to most studios.  Not that I'm trying to use that as an argument, rather as supporting evidence for my own thought process.  I am as nervous as everyone else and in fear that I've O.D'd on hopium.

 

And for the record:  I couldn't afford the subs.  Paul's happy but Peter is about to be very upset.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Wyndle said:

I have been vocal on these forums for years applauding NQ for what I perceived as correct use of Alpha and Beta nomenclature compared to most studios.  Not that I'm trying to use that as an argument, rather as supporting evidence for my own thought process.  I am as nervous as everyone else and in fear that I've O.D'd on hopium.

 

And for the record:  I couldn't afford the subs.  Paul's happy but Peter is about to be very upset.

as far as i know an alpha is where they add all the features and a beta is the testing, balancing and polishing phase?  They went into 'beta' not feature complete and are about to launch without the features tested and polished?  not sure what to say..

 

Anyway... i get blasted for sharing my views on this.. so going to end it here.. thank you for being civil... its more than i get from the DU discord.  

 

You know....its sounds trivial but all I really wanted from this 'debate' was an acceptance that yes its about the cash....instead I had people talking to me like this was always the plan... maybe im a bit OCD... like many others ive put a lot of time into DU and to be degraded into nothing (i get a lot of 'if you don't like it leave') is a hard pill to swallow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, LeoCora said:

as far as i know an alpha is where they add all the features and a beta is the testing, balancing and polishing phase?  They went into 'beta' not feature complete and are about to launch without the features tested and polished?  not sure what to say..

 

Anyway... i get blasted for sharing my views on this.. so going to end it here.. thank you for being civil... its more than i get from the DU discord.  

 

You know....its sounds trivial but all I really wanted from this 'debate' was an acceptance that yes its about the cash....instead I had people talking to me like this was always the plan... maybe im a bit OCD... like many others ive put a lot of time into DU and to be degraded into nothing (i get a lot of 'if you don't like it leave') is a hard pill to swallow.

I have no clue if they're still using the terms correctly but at one time I thought they were.  I stepped away from the game and the forums for a while and I'm not sure how much of the scuttlebutt is personalities vs. legit issues.  What I've seen of the new content so far hints at more being ready than they've let on.  That combined with prior appropriate use of Alpha/Beta/Release terms tells me that the launch is either going to blow up (+) or explode (-), and I want a front row seat either way.

 

I apologize if you thought I was disagreeing with you.  I was just conversing on the topic; as much out of nerves as anything else.  None of the factors I'm discussing change the fact that it is definitely about the cash.   It saddens me that anyone has been treated less than civil and I hope that it wasn't anyone directly or indirectly associated with NQ.

 

I hope you have a great day and fly dangerous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am pleased about the reset. Frankly, I have never approved of games that kept everything from the Beta. Betas are for discovering faults and improving a game for end release. Not for people to think, "Oh I can get a headstart."
  A proper game launch should be for everyone. For new people to discover a new game, For people who played in the alphas and betas to think "Well, I did this but wouldn't it be fun to do this, this time around?" At the end of the day, it a game. Like all games it will eventually close and all you be left with are the memories and perhaps good friendships. These you can take with you, forever more..
  So many people are raging about it, saying it has spoilt their game play that it saddens me. If you haven't the imagination to start over again and think "I get there again." and enjoy that journey, then you shouldn't be playing Beta. end of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Wyndle said:

I have no clue if they're still using the terms correctly but at one time I thought they were.  I stepped away from the game and the forums for a while and I'm not sure how much of the scuttlebutt is personalities vs. legit issues.  What I've seen of the new content so far hints at more being ready than they've let on.  That combined with prior appropriate use of Alpha/Beta/Release terms tells me that the launch is either going to blow up (+) or explode (-), and I want a front row seat either way.

 

I apologize if you thought I was disagreeing with you.  I was just conversing on the topic; as much out of nerves as anything else.  None of the factors I'm discussing change the fact that it is definitely about the cash.   It saddens me that anyone has been treated less than civil and I hope that it wasn't anyone directly or indirectly associated with NQ.

 

I hope you have a great day and fly dangerous.

Oh I didn't  think you were disagreeing with me (it's ok if you do by the way!) ...sorry I was talking generally about what I had been trying to get out of the debate...the discussion with you has been a very welcome change. :)

 

I hope the game survives..I had hoped to go into launch not feeling so bitter about the game but if they manage to make a success of it then it will have been worth it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Daneom said:

I am pleased about the reset. Frankly, I have never approved of games that kept everything from the Beta. Betas are for discovering faults and improving a game for end release. Not for people to think, "Oh I can get a headstart."
  A proper game launch should be for everyone. For new people to discover a new game, For people who played in the alphas and betas to think "Well, I did this but wouldn't it be fun to do this, this time around?" At the end of the day, it a game. Like all games it will eventually close and all you be left with are the memories and perhaps good friendships. These you can take with you, forever more..
  So many people are raging about it, saying it has spoilt their game play that it saddens me. If you haven't the imagination to start over again and think "I get there again." and enjoy that journey, then you shouldn't be playing Beta. end of.

I agree the game needs a reset. so much is broken..so many redundant assets.

 

I agree everyone should start on the same footing... unfortunately that's not what NQ are doing...they are saying 'if you pay us more you can have a bigger headstart '

 

That's the only bit about all of this I struggle with. They could have 'rewarded' players without it including talent points.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, LeoCora said:

I agree the game needs a reset. so much is broken..so many redundant assets.

 

I agree everyone should start on the same footing... unfortunately that's not what NQ are doing...they are saying 'if you pay us more you can have a bigger headstart '

 

That's the only bit about all of this I struggle with. They could have 'rewarded' players without it including talent points.

Funny, you mentioning redundant assets caused me to stumble into visualizing the current schematic system acting like sensor for your factory.  If you're not in the factory checking on it then it shuts itself down.  You can set the timer longer by feeding the schematic bank but you have to keep resetting that timer.  By doing that it prevents inactive players from leaving the lights on.

 

NQ has heavily referenced Eve Online, meaning SP are 'important' but kinda not so I don't see the SP bonus being a problem.  The beaters (yay, another SAO reference!) already have multiple advantages even at zero SP.  At the same time, even with the wipe having a dedicated base of experienced players with more SP will likely have more positive impact on the game than not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Daneom said:

I am pleased about the reset. Frankly, I have never approved of games that kept everything from the Beta. Betas are for discovering faults and improving a game for end release. Not for people to think, "Oh I can get a headstart."
  A proper game launch should be for everyone. For new people to discover a new game, For people who played in the alphas and betas to think "Well, I did this but wouldn't it be fun to do this, this time around?" At the end of the day, it a game. Like all games it will eventually close and all you be left with are the memories and perhaps good friendships. These you can take with you, forever more..
  So many people are raging about it, saying it has spoilt their game play that it saddens me. If you haven't the imagination to start over again and think "I get there again." and enjoy that journey, then you shouldn't be playing Beta. end of.

Except that NQ explicitly said that the start of the 'Beta' was going to be the last full wipe.  So people who wanted to discover that new game in a fresh state from day 1 felt like they had to begin at the start of beta because it would never be that way again.  And that's why some people are annoyed now -- a lot of people were already playing what they considered to be the 'full' game (and paying a monthly sub for that) and were playing 'for keeps'.  Two years is a long time to play and have everything erased.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

Except that NQ explicitly said that the start of the 'Beta' was going to be the last full wipe.  So people who wanted to discover that new game in a fresh state from day 1 felt like they had to begin at the start of beta because it would never be that way again.  And that's why some people are annoyed now -- a lot of people were already playing what they considered to be the 'full' game (and paying a monthly sub for that) and were playing 'for keeps'.  Two years is a long time to play and have everything erased.  

If memory serves, they said that they did not 'plan' to reset the server but left the option should it be needed.  When they released the Demeter update they changed one of the primary techs that produces planets meaning they had no choice but to reset the planets to implement it.  They reiterated that they didn't want to wipe then or later but they still had the disclaimer 'unless needed.'  While JC may have used that type of language verbally the company never put it in writing and guess who is no longer in the CEO role?  Starting over isn't for everyone, and some rage quit when they die with a full inventory in Minecraft before they set a bed.  I get that this isn't exactly the same but it still illustrates a point.

 

Quote

https://www.dualuniverse.game/news/inside-novaquark-demeter-edition

 

Topics include:

  • How we're implementing a new voxel grid on planets called hexoctrees, which will significantly decrease database costs and improve performance for players.
  • The fundamental changes to mining, including the removal of underground ore, how mining units work and how their efficiency can be optimized.
  • How the management of territories is impacted with the introduction of monthly ownership fees among other changes.
  • How these changes include a reset of the planets’ geometry and the potential impact on some players with underground bases.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Wyndle said:

If memory serves, they said that they did not 'plan' to reset the server but left the option should it be needed.  When they released the Demeter update they changed one of the primary techs that produces planets meaning they had no choice but to reset the planets to implement it.  They reiterated that they didn't want to wipe then or later but they still had the disclaimer 'unless needed.'  While JC may have used that type of language verbally the company never put it in writing and guess who is no longer in the CEO role?  Starting over isn't for everyone, and some rage quit when they die with a full inventory in Minecraft before they set a bed.  I get that this isn't exactly the same but it still illustrates a point.

 

 

OK, I'm not going to rehash the old arguments (or post quotes out of the alpha-NDA forum and get them deleted by NQ like others have) but there were things in writing which are stronger than you are making out (although not a promise not to wipe).  Also people were given the definite impression that the start of beta was the start of the shared history and persistence of the world.  There's lots of evidence of that which is hard to argue with if you go watch some of the JC videos.  Also the fact that a monthly sub was charged was a strong indicator of the start of the game.

 

Space-lawyering aside, though, the point I'm trying to make is that a significant number of people (myself included) did not want to start playing a beta, but wanted to play DU from the start of the world rather than 1+ year in and felt they had no choice but to start playing 'for real' when the beta started.  I'm pretty sure I posted things to that effect several times here during the early beta whenever people made "it's just a beta" types of posts.  Those people are now frustrated at having to start all over again, and many don't want to.  I think this is understandable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Zeddrick said:

Space-lawyering aside, though, the point I'm trying to make is that a significant number of people (myself included) did not want to start playing a beta, but wanted to play DU from the start of the world rather than 1+ year in and felt they had no choice but to start playing 'for real' when the beta started.  I'm pretty sure I posted things to that effect several times here during the early beta whenever people made "it's just a beta" types of posts.  Those people are now frustrated at having to start all over again, and many don't want to.  I think this is understandable.

I get it and I'm not trying to tell anyone that they shouldn't feel upset over how it played out.  The distrust and pain of the community is squarely on NQ's shoulders for how they've handled things.  I have also been vocal on these forums with my perspective trying to help some understand that everything I was seeing screamed "Beta is Beta,"  and a ratcheting probability of a wipe for Release.  NQ could have been more up-front to prevent some of the trouble.  We don't know if there were any background obligations (i.e. investor NDA, contracts, etc.) that prevented them from being fully transparent or if it was just poor choices.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Haunty said:

Are backers going to get steam keys or how does that work?

You still have an NQ account, you have the option to link your steam account from within the DU website.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/10/2022 at 2:52 PM, PopsiclePete said:

No, the beta keys were a perk, a bonus in a series of perks that came with a pledge Their access and any entitlements that come with it end at release I'd say. Not sure how this is even a question people have.

 

Personally, I think my DU journey will end here. I do not see enough progress or justification to move to a subscription and certainly not paying a year-long sub in advance with no solid information on what is ahead just to get the launch pack perks.

I do understand the choice NQ made here and from their perspective I think it makes sense but there is not enough game for me to start over with nothing but a handful of blueprints and the experience. I will follow the game and if it shows the progress I'm looking for I may come back and give it another try.

Ah, thanks for clarifying.

 

Yes, I agree, my journey with DU is likely to end when my main account's DACs finish becaues, yes, I agree, there isn't enough game left after the wipe to start again with nothing but a handful of blueprints and experience.

 

I will take my memories of an enjoyable game as it was through Beta with me, along with a bunch of screenshots of cool things others have built.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all I would like to appreciate novaq team decision to make full wipe, common sense seems prevailing back again in HQ. Since the very first day discovering DU and seeing total bs "no wipe on release" messages all around - it was a deal breaker for me to continue playing - no sane MMO developer transition from test to release without wipe. If novaq would try to release without wipe it would be a disaster. Tl;dr - good job guys on staying on smart side.

 

As player who did not login since undergrounds mining was still a thing - what is the status of resource scans on release? I understand data will be wiped, but will resource locations be randomized? I dunno how scan works after mining changes - but if it is what I think it is - just revealing static info on hexes, it would be very unfair for new players to compete with veterans that already know best hexes and can just save them offline, rushing for best ones on start, while new players would have to scan from scratch. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, ElGesem said:

As player who did not login since undergrounds mining was still a thing - what is the status of resource scans on release? I understand data will be wiped, but will resource locations be randomized? I dunno how scan works after mining changes - but if it is what I think it is - just revealing static info on hexes, it would be very unfair for new players to compete with veterans that already know best hexes and can just save them offline, rushing for best ones on start, while new players would have to scan from scratch. 

 

Ore distributions will be randomised again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

another question - what is counted as subscription-time for beta participants bonus - all bought time or only used one? If I buy 12 months subscription now - will I get 12 month tier bonus? If I had 3 months sub two years ago - if I buy 3 more months now, will I get 3-12 tier bonus?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ElGesem said:

another question - what is counted as subscription-time for beta participants bonus - all bought time or only used one? If I buy 12 months subscription now - will I get 12 month tier bonus? If I had 3 months sub two years ago - if I buy 3 more months now, will I get 3-12 tier bonus?

All purchased time, whether or not it has been used. So if you bought and used 3 months previously, then, just before launch, bought 12 months, then you'd have 15 months total and qualify for the exotic pack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Distinct Mint said:

All purchased time, whether or not it has been used. So if you bought and used 3 months previously, then, just before launch, bought 12 months, then you'd have 15 months total and qualify for the exotic pack.

thanks for the answer. Though now it makes less sense for "gratitude for players support" reward and looks more like "last cash grab" type 😄

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...