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RESET NEWS ANNOUNCEMENT - Discussion thread


NQ-Nyota

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1 hour ago, An0ubiS said:

My two cents about what you could do for the long-term players and supporters: How about an application process for magic BPs, like you did for the digging process after the terrain reset?

 

And another idea: give us VOXEL-only magic BPs, deleting every single element by creation; that way, we at least could keep our creations (plus, add the long-awaited BP snap feature for a decent rebuilding process).

 

Give players an opportunity to rebuild without loosing everything. That way, you could prevent people from stockpiling stuff, by previewing. Nobody would affect the economy in any way (plus, what Megabosslord said about preventing people from selling anything stored in magic BPs - problem solved).

 

I know, this would mean additional work for you NQ guys, but ... isn't that what we've been paying for, among other things? (some with multiple alt accounts + subscription, and even as backers) 🤷‍♂️

 

Yes I like this idea. I'll take one full L core of every honeycomb, please!

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3 minutes ago, Distinct Mint said:

While NQ are resetting Alioth, they might consider spacing out the districts/markets a little bit, rather than having them in a nonsensical circle which just increases congestion and lag. I mean, why would you have 10 of them in close proximity? Time to resolve the situation!

Remove the markets completely and make good on the promise on player markets with a proper Lua API!

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Just give us a "Pioneer Pocket Rocket": one XS core, 40t max, limited space and atmos engines, T1 elements only, one empty S container max. BUT, it cannot be scrapped or rebuild for cash, it is just available for us as a second pocket rocket, next to the regular one.

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5 hours ago, Megabosslord said:

1.  the clutter only happened because they gave everyone HQ tiles even if they were unsubbed.)

 

2. - They think new players prefer to start on an empty world? Speculation, and flawed - per your comments above. Also, making it painful for active players to rebuild only costs active players.

 

3. - They want to fix exploits? NQ-Deckard is on record previously saying exploits were all corrected and a tiny part of the economy. 

 

There's no stated reason that goes to the reversal on 'magic BPs'. The only other possible logic is the fear players will stockpile mats/elements in 'magic BPs' which could easily have been addressed by vaporising anything removed from their "one-time-use 'Packaged blueprints'" so it can't be resold. At least explain why they couldn't keep their word, rather than all the obfuscation.

1.  HQ tiles and salvage mechanics was their attempted solution to clutter while balancing keeping the active players happy.  It helped (a lot) but they didn't quite hit their target.  The system as is will be more effective after a wipe since many of the players who quit before or at 0.23 will not be coming back.  I think they can leave this system as is for launch, but I could see a healthy discussion about how to tweak the rules for better long term viability.

 

2.  Agreed but I suspect their hands are tied in ways that are not strictly on the gameplay side.  It won't stay empty, but how long will it be empty?

 

3.  We've established that not everything said by members of NQ is solid or reliable.  "[A] tiny part of the economy" could be measured in multiple ways to minimize/negate/cover-up facts.  A phrase comes to mind when I read that:  Corporate Speak.  The people who get paychecks from NQ are bound by terms of employment.  NQ (the corp) has legal obligations that prevent external (and some internal) transparency and requires activities to profit shareholders.  Those legal obligations more often than not bleed into design and features of games, not just DU.  -  Have a grain of salt, I've got a whole heap that needs to go before the wipe.

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22 minutes ago, Wyndle said:

1.  HQ tiles and salvage mechanics was their attempted solution to clutter while balancing keeping the active players happy. 

You missed the point of @Megabosslords post. Giving HQ tiles to already unsubbed players were mistake. Also HQ tiles do not get released when player unsubs.

 

Salvage mechanics is important also in a future because it enables one type of game-play. It is also reason for some exploration.

How ever after reasonable time period all garbage leftover constructs must be cleared from game world automatically.

 

Tile owners should also be able to clear their tiles quite fast of constructs left in their own tiles.

 

22 minutes ago, Wyndle said:

I think they can leave this system as is for launch, but I could see a healthy discussion about how to tweak the rules for better long term viability.

After launch they can give more HQ tiles, but not less.
 

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3 minutes ago, kulkija said:

You missed the point of @Megabosslords post. Giving HQ tiles to already unsubbed players were mistake. Also HQ tiles do not get released when player unsubs.

I disagree that HQ tiles being given to un-subbed accounts was a mistake because HQ would not fall off after unsubscribing.  Doing it that way allowed NQ to see how things would play out when they code something like that into the game going forward.  Unfortunately for some, I am fairly certain that dead HQ tiles was not a small factor in the decision to wipe for release.

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4 hours ago, Yoarii said:

Remove the markets completely and make good on the promise on player markets with a proper Lua API!

 

Much, MUCH, harder.  They have no constructs for this. 

 

Think about questions along the line of:  Are they going to create special "market containers" or would a player owned market be limited to a 10X hub of large containers - that would be VERY limiting.  What about RDMS (which doesn't have a great record):  Do I, as the player market owner, own the contents of those containers?  Can I wait for folks to fill them with items for sale and then just shutdown the market and steal it all?  If I can create a player market with infinite storage like the current markets have, what keeps me from just creating one and using it for myself - putting sell orders on it at 100X market prices?

 

These are all things that should have been resolved in Alpha.

 

ps.  Dispensers are NOT player markets, although the large core space station I set up called Jita used them to get as close as it could (fuel, territory scanners, etc.) was at least for sale - but no market like capability.

 

pps.  Basically this is enough to quality as a release by itself and should be given ample PTS time.

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11 minutes ago, Pleione said:

Much, MUCH, harder.  They have no constructs for this. 

I know that. Didn't say it would be easy.

 

I'm part of SVEA, you might have heard of us in-game. We run (sorry, *ran*) a shop with hundreds upon hundreds of dispensers. I know full well they are not adequate for actual layer markets, but a few additions on them would go a long way towards something more usable as discussed in another post on this forum. This would give NQ time to properly design, build and test actual market units.

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55 minutes ago, Yoarii said:

I know that. Didn't say it would be easy.

 

I'm part of SVEA, you might have heard of us in-game. We run (sorry, *ran*) a shop with hundreds upon hundreds of dispensers. I know full well they are not adequate for actual layer markets, but a few additions on them would go a long way towards something more usable as discussed in another post on this forum. This would give NQ time to properly design, build and test actual market units.

Trust me, I feel your pain and disappointment.

 

I feel the lack of a player driven economy, of which player driven markets are a huge piece, is my 2nd biggest disappointment in the evolution of DU.  1st being the lack of delivery of "Galaxy" with the implications its was well beyond 2 or 3 solar systems - I wanted in pre-alpha to work towards a Stargate Universe class exploration and gate seeding ship.  That dream died a rather slow death, with feature after feature required to do it slowly being removed and replaced with more and more dependance on central markets.  That dream died its last death with the introduction of schematics.

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Look the wipe would be the perfect time to change things up and introduce new mechanics. 

 

First Id delete all but 1 of the outer planets and move the safe zones back to their original promised borders. 

 

Second I'd bring in player markets and remove all the markets outside of the alioth safe zone. 

 

Third I'd finally create and introduce energy systems to be the great balance that everything needs. 

 

Also anyone who thought there wouldnt be a wipe post beta was kidding themselves. If youd been here since the alphas and knew all the exploits and bugs, you'd know a wipe was the only option. 

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9 minutes ago, Pleione said:

Trust me, I feel your pain and disappointment.

 

I feel the lack of a player driven economy, of which player driven markets are a huge piece, is my 2nd biggest disappointment in the evolution of DU.  1st being the lack of delivery of "Galaxy" with the implications its was well beyond 2 or 3 solar systems - I wanted in pre-alpha to work towards a Stargate Universe class exploration and gate seeding ship.  That dream died a rather slow death, with feature after feature required to do it slowly being removed and replaced with more and more dependance on central markets.  That dream died its last death with the introduction of schematics.

NQ could nick another thing from Eve - wormholes. In its first iteration they could be instanced semi-short lived systems. These could be used for both exploration, resource gathering and PvP....endless possibilities.

 

In case NQ takes this idea - finding wormholes should be done through active game play and there needs to be enough to go around. (No, DSAT mechanics do not count as active!)

 

We're getting off topic so I'll stop there :)

Edited by Yoarii
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5 minutes ago, Noddles said:

Also anyone who thought there wouldnt be a wipe post beta was kidding themselves. If youd been here since the alphas and knew all the exploits and bugs, you'd know a wipe was the only option. 

 

Economy pretty much was owned by several exploiters good part of first year. And even when NQ gone eventually for some lazy bans, they prob we tiped about it or "sensed" somehow, cashing out irl for thousands of $/euro.


Whole "beyond curtains" story is immense shame. On level I rarely seen in serious MMO.

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Pure player markets are probably more of a nightmare than a wish that absolutely has to be realised. I don't necessarily need them, it's enough for me to bring my goods to the marketplace, list them there and, if I have a need, buy something from the market again straight away.
What more do I want as a player? Especially since it is probably one of the safest ways compared to a player-controlled market.

What could be done, however, is to pay the tax revenues of the markets to players or organisations if they are elected in a political system (area officials, planetary representatives, etc.) Provided that an election system with political possibilities would be introduced in DualUniverse. (I know it in a small form as an example from the game: Archeage).

 

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its pretty bad that as a thank you for being a contributor and long term supporter of the game they gate contributor backers behind a pay wall.  In fact, its not possible for a contributor backer to get the exotic pack as its not possible to buy 13 months game time...

 

Why NQ thought this was a good idea is beyond me.  Contributor backers will always be 6m TP behind as a result.  Some people say it doesnt matter, but in the early game, the first couple of years, it does, especially as a builder that sells ships with boosts. 

 

The whole wipe fiasco was bad enough.... only NQ have the unique skill set required to make that even worse...

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Fair enough. Make the highest tier reward available to anybody who pays 13months tomorrow. Then we all unsub after the 6 months...........

 

 

I think you forgot to mention keys were unearned.

 

 

ffs

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49 minutes ago, LeoCora said:

its pretty bad that as a thank you for being a contributor and long term supporter of the game they gate contributor backers behind a pay wall.  In fact, its not possible for a contributor backer to get the exotic pack as its not possible to buy 13 months game time...

 

Why NQ thought this was a good idea is beyond me.  Contributor backers will always be 6m TP behind as a result.  Some people say it doesnt matter, but in the early game, the first couple of years, it does, especially as a builder that sells ships with boosts. 

 

The whole wipe fiasco was bad enough.... only NQ have the unique skill set required to make that even worse...

You can add game time codes on top of whatever package. So if you really wanted that exotic pack, you could apply 12 month GTC and a 1 month GTC.

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On 8/9/2022 at 6:52 PM, Kurock said:

Disappointed but not surprised.

 

Thoramine was a lovely dream and it really sucks that it was never realized. Missed opportunity imo.

 

Question: Will NQ still honor the rewards from Kickstarter packs (DAC’s, lifetime subscriptions, pets etc)? 

 

On 8/9/2022 at 6:34 PM, GamingGothic said:

What happens too the Thoramin Event when its getting wiped are we getting a reward ? or it is the biggest story of the Thoramin Hunt just Gone ?

 

it would really hard suck if it's just gone. :(

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4 hours ago, Ghangi said:

You can add game time codes on top of whatever package. So if you really wanted that exotic pack, you could apply 12 month GTC and a 1 month GTC.

a couple of people have said that recently, i dont see where to buy that on NQ's website, i know there is a 3rd party site peope use but is that official?  And my main point is I shouldn't be forced into a 13 month sub just so im not worse off... I have 2 accounts, thats 26 months of game time i'd be forced into buying just so NQ don't screw me.... how is that a 'reward' ?

 

If I HAVE to pay for 13 months I wont be able to afford to sub 2 accounts... so long term NQ will be worse off too... its very short sighted and makes me wonder if NQ are mostly after cash at any price... maybe the game won't be around in 12 months time and they want to get as many subs as possible.  

 

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4 minutes ago, LeoCora said:

If I HAVE to pay for 13 months I wont be able to afford to sub 2 accounts... so long term NQ will be worse off too... its very short sighted and makes me wonder if NQ are mostly after cash at any price... maybe the game won't be around in 12 months time and they want to get as many subs as possible. 

lol. They are literally charging people for what they already paid for, and you have doubts about if they are "mostly after cash at any price"? They charged people for around two years, now they take everything away, and charge them to earn the talent points and everything else, all over again. Nothing new will be gained, it will take almost two years to get to the point the players were at. Maybe a little less with these silly bonus packages that they require you to sub for an additional 6 months to even earn.

Add to all this that they changed all the mechanics to take even longer than they ever did in the past, and it is very clear they are only in this to get people to have to stay around and pay a sub.

 

Name something FUN that they added to the game that hasn't turned into some form of passive "click and wait" mechanic. The amusing thing is that people are champing at the bit to pay them for what they already paid for.

 

This all smells way too sleazy.

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On 8/9/2022 at 11:40 PM, Atmosph3rik said:

I wanted to keep giving them money every month.  Are my future monthly payments really so worthless compared to a few new subscriptions?

 

Yes. Sadly its purely cynical surivival/math at this point.

 

Imagine you got your finger trapped and there is only 2 alternatives: cut it off and try to survive, or stay and die for sure.

 

This is exactly situation of NQ (they put themeselves into). Older players, useful for all this years, with their wishes to "keep stuff" become a liability. Majority of potential new players obviously will want "blank state" or something very close to it. I know old players hate this idea and imagine some nonsense about "new players will want world bulit by us" -- no the don't -- this is bs. You can't keep both categories happy here.

 

Its hard to tell how many old players still around (NQ never given any stats for obvious reasons), but I think veterans often tend to seriously overestimate their monetary value for NQ, especially in absolute "survival" numbers company needs to achieve in near future.

 

Only hope for such sums lie only in new players subs. 20-25 k probably, at least. So they need to be attracted by any cost. 

 

Will this bloody choice work out for NQ? 

 

I honestly doubt it, because game is quite niche and still not that good/finished yet enough to be attractive/sticking for so many subs. Will fizzle out after initial 2-3 months "boom" or so, just like Beta.

 

P.S.

 

And btw, I'm not gloating. After all this talks about wipe I had, now, when it come true, I feel bad for involved vets. It pains me to observe this.

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20 minutes ago, Metallical said:

lol. They are literally charging people for what they already paid for, and you have doubts about if they are "mostly after cash at any price"? They charged people for around two years, now they take everything away, and charge them to earn the talent points and everything else, all over again. Nothing new will be gained, it will take almost two years to get to the point the players were at. Maybe a little less with these silly bonus packages that they require you to sub for an additional 6 months to even earn.

Add to all this that they changed all the mechanics to take even longer than they ever did in the past, and it is very clear they are only in this to get people to have to stay around and pay a sub.

 

Name something FUN that they added to the game that hasn't turned into some form of passive "click and wait" mechanic. The amusing thing is that people are champing at the bit to pay them for what they already paid for.

 

This all smells way too sleazy.

I agree.. something about this doesnt feel right... it will be interesting to hear whats in the big announcement on the live stream

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7 hours ago, Noddles said:

Look the wipe would be the perfect time to change things up and introduce new mechanics. 

 

First Id delete all but 1 of the outer planets and move the safe zones back to their original promised borders. 

 

Second I'd bring in player markets and remove all the markets outside of the alioth safe zone. 

 

Third I'd finally create and introduce energy systems to be the great balance that everything needs. 

 

Also anyone who thought there wouldnt be a wipe post beta was kidding themselves. If youd been here since the alphas and knew all the exploits and bugs, you'd know a wipe was the only option. 

 this

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