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@NQ - Feedback on schematics


Deathknight

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@NQ

 

With the information that has been provided by since the schematic changes have first been announced, I thought I would give some more detailed feedback. As you are keen to rush this straight to the prod server, I think getting early feedback will be useful.
 

Looking Good

Adding an additional time component to the industry process looks like it will an effective and fair way to reduce the ability of any one individual to mass produce items, at least without a large quanta cost. This seems to have the potential to be fair, if the numbers are tweaked properly.

 

The Economy

This additional dependency on Quanta is problematic for the economy I think. It would not be the case if the economy was in better shape, but as it is we are suffering from massive deflation due to the large quantity of currency leaving the game. This is an entire topic of its own, but I will just say that I hope you have further plans to fix the economy. Your concept of "faucets and sinks" does not work in a real economy. Maybe in a single player game that works, but in a real economy, currency should circulate --not be created and destroyed--.

 

Tedious

If the system works as described, where players need to place schematics into each assembly machine, this will make the process quite tedious. This is not the tedium of hard work that is rewarded, this is tedium that is unnecessary and will not be well received. Existing industry players will react poorly, knowing how pointless this exercise is. New players will quickly find it laughable. The consequences of this type of manual process will be numerous and negative. Organizations that run factories will not be able to easily manage feeding machines with a small number of players. This means expanding access to factories to a larger number of players, which is a security risk and would be difficult to coordinate.

 

Suggestion to Reduce Tedium

Please create a way for players to interact with the factory as a whole. Since connections cannot be made across cores, a factory can be considered a core with industry elements on it. Perhaps an industry element, like a schematic catalog machine, could be created that would be one per core. Link a container as input to this machine and let schematics placed into the container feed into the catalog. Once stored in the catalog, any machine within the factory could be allowed to use the schematics within the catalog. This would allow management of a factory to continue much as it does now, with schematics becoming another resource that is consumed as it becomes available. Even smaller player factories would benefit from the design immensely, as this would remove one of the most hated aspects of the 0.23 schematics patch. Larger org factories would take much less tedious planning and tracking of schematics, as well as the chore of feeding the machines. Members could donate schematics my leaving them in a container and any schematic would be welcome and could eventually be used. The catalog machine could be quite useful in a factory, showing schematics that are stored as well as schematics that are needed to allow stopped machines to run.
    
I understand from your most recent video that you do not want to further automate industry, and I understand that desire. Implementing some way to feed schematics into the appropriate machines automatically would allow factories to be managed in a very similar way to how the currently operate. It is rather fun running a factory currently. If you feel factories need additional balancing, please do it via means other than intentionally making it miserably tedious.

 

Wallet

It is not clear in the video where the money to pay for the schematic copy will come from. I take this to mean that it comes from the players wallet? If that is currently what is planned, please consider adding an org wallet selection. Transferring money between players constantly is a real pain and that is what the wallets are there for.

 

Thanks for your time

Deathknight

 

 

Edited by Deathknight
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100% Agree that loading schematics will be tedious and annoying to do. There is 0 reason that we shouldn't be able to automate a factory, that's what we enjoy. Now, 1 person should not be able to support the needs of a build anything factory which can easily be done through a power system where the larger factories need exponentially more power(and whatever resource is consumed to create the power).
 

In addition, being able to transfer Items across cores would be fantastic and would actually allow for more people to work together. I do my portion and transfer it over to you. so we can have more people involved in a multi core large factory, where each core is much smaller and thus consuming less power to run for example.
Etc, you get the idea. there are much better solutions.

With their current solutions, we'll just raise prices of items so we can buy schematics and will still have a large factory ran by 1 or 2 people. this schematic change didn't do anything to bring fun cooperative gameplay other then maybe posting in an org, hey we need 10 ppl constantly making these schematics, and another 10 making these etc. and we just buy them off of them.

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Oh and buying the schematics wasn't even the main problem people didn't like, you just planned out a trip and went and bought everything you needed. Organizing them and loading them into the machines was probably the most annoying thing, and now we have to do that on the regular.

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59 minutes ago, Niemand said:

another braindead thread. oh yeah schematics are GREAT, we lost most of our players because of it but ITS GREAT. i always facepalm when i look into this forum. its a mirror of modern society, total collapse, zombies everywhere and no brains to be found.

 

What is the nerve other than the schematics that you propose?

It is mandatory for NQ to limit the maximum number of factories per player that can manufacture items at the same time.

  It's not a question of gameplay now it's an obligation, there are too many solo players who have abused the system. They cost more than what they bring in money. They are even harmful for the arrival of new player on the economy.

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3 hours ago, Niemand said:

i always facepalm when i look into this forum. its a mirror of modern society

No, it's a mirror of the playerbase that passed a selction process. Players who get used to schematics are much more likely to post in this forum compared to players who left the game due to schematics. Simple as that.

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7 hours ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

No, it's a mirror of the playerbase that passed a selction process. Players who get used to schematics are much more likely to post in this forum compared to players who left the game due to schematics. Simple as that.

Darwinism of a sort.

 

I always wondered if the effect has a true name, since it is not unique to DU and seen else where as well

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10 hours ago, Niemand said:

another braindead thread. oh yeah schematics are GREAT, we lost most of our players because of it but ITS GREAT. i always facepalm when i look into this forum. its a mirror of modern society, total collapse, zombies everywhere and no brains to be found.

 

I was not a fan of the 0.23 update either, but as painful as it was for me, there was no way I was going to bail on this game I love so much that easily. We are just here giving feedback to help improve the existing game. If the developers have chosen this path, I (and many other players) would like to help guide them from a player's perspective. I think that is all we really can do if we want the game to succeed. 

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10 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

It's not a question of gameplay now it's an obligation, there are too many solo players who have abused the system. They cost more than what they bring in money


Ridiculous! It makes no difference whether a solo player builds a huge factory or whether 5 players build a big factory together. The 5 players manage it much faster and more effectively. Especially since you also have to supply the industry permanently so that it remains in continuous operation. That's exactly why players pay, so that you can play.
If the subscription costs do not generally cover this, then the price of the subscription is not right or the game is too cost-intensive. It's scary how much freedom NQ takes and every time just to get these costs under control, even though they supposedly don't have a financial problem. So the game itself is becoming smaller and smaller and more limited in what a player can do and how he can develop. What's next in terms of reduction? Will the planets all lose 20% of their mass? Are you only allowed to have a maximum of 10 dynamic cores? Will L-cores be abolished? Will there be an element limit for cores?

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Yeah, I am a much bigger fan of the carrot than the stick when it comes to game design. Charge me what you need to charge and make other areas of the game more enticing (the carrot) vs making one thing less fun (the stick). If too many people want to play one area of the game and that hurts the economy, that just means that other game loops need to be improved or introduced to attract a greater percentage of players to them.

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3 hours ago, Zarcata said:


Ridiculous! It makes no difference whether a solo player builds a huge factory or whether 5 players build a big factory together. The 5 players manage it much faster and more effectively. Especially since you also have to supply the industry permanently so that it remains in continuous operation. That's exactly why players pay, so that you can play.
If the subscription costs do not generally cover this, then the price of the subscription is not right or the game is too cost-intensive. It's scary how much freedom NQ takes and every time just to get these costs under control, even though they supposedly don't have a financial problem. So the game itself is becoming smaller and smaller and more limited in what a player can do and how he can develop. What's next in terms of reduction? Will the planets all lose 20% of their mass? Are you only allowed to have a maximum of 10 dynamic cores? Will L-cores be abolished? Will there be an element limit for cores?

 

A long time ago with my friends on Discord, more or less moaning about the progress of the game, we finally realized that the majority of the effort of NQ was focused on cost reduction.
 

Here is the list of things that have or will change:
- Overhaul of planetary mining to remove all people's galleries and limit "pending operations"
- Revamp of the planets to remove the voxels present and modifiable "in depth"
- Nerve of organizations with drawers to avoid being able to have an infinity of core units (limitation of a number X of cores per player).
- Limitation of the number of industries that can rotate compared to a number of players X present on the game.
- Added a destruction timer so that people who no longer pay for the game no longer impact the company financially
- Added a timer to remove destroyed buildings from the server
- Increased weapon damage and increased rate of fire. Massive nerf to voxel hp and added CSS, to reduce the number of calculations in PvP.
-Removal of the build mode in PvP to avoid doing the state calculations of the ships too regularly
 

Here's what should happen again (speculation):
 

- Energy or core capacity system to limit to X elements possible on a size X.
=> next patch they will make the distinction between the useful elements (those with a schematic) and those useless (without schematic), the first will count in the energy / the capacity cost
- Removal of Sanctuary to leave only Haven, Revamp of other planets as well?
- Added a recycling system to destroy assets and help clear chests

=>
All these things are beneficial in the end for the game and allow either to make it possible in the long term (without that NQ will ALREADY be closed) and the gain of resources also makes it possible to improve a lot of things, even if efforts are still always to do. But damn what, overall their servers hold up pretty well! And the voxel tech is really good, whether it's the build mechanic itself or the draw distance of player constructs.

 

3 hours ago, Deathknight said:

Yeah, I am a much bigger fan of the carrot than the stick when it comes to game design. Charge me what you need to charge and make other areas of the game more enticing (the carrot) vs making one thing less fun (the stick). If too many people want to play one area of the game and that hurts the economy, that just means that other game loops need to be improved or introduced to attract a greater percentage of players to them.


Totaly agree, 

I've said it dozens of times, before slapping the players, tried to give them a lollipop before and a candy after.

Each mechanic should come with a new equivalent or new real gameplay. (Lua is only enough for the community of Nerds who will ever make the game live on their own. That doesn't count).
 



 

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10 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:

 

A long time ago with my friends on Discord, more or less moaning about the progress of the game, we finally realized that the majority of the effort of NQ was focused on cost reduction.
 

Here is the list of things that have or will change:
- Overhaul of planetary mining to remove all people's galleries and limit "pending operations"
- Revamp of the planets to remove the voxels present and modifiable "in depth"
- Nerve of organizations with drawers to avoid being able to have an infinity of core units (limitation of a number X of cores per player).
- Limitation of the number of industries that can rotate compared to a number of players X present on the game.
- Added a destruction timer so that people who no longer pay for the game no longer impact the company financially
- Added a timer to remove destroyed buildings from the server
- Increased weapon damage and increased rate of fire. Massive nerf to voxel hp and added CSS, to reduce the number of calculations in PvP.
-Removal of the build mode in PvP to avoid doing the state calculations of the ships too regularly
 

Here's what should happen again (speculation):
 

- Energy or core capacity system to limit to X elements possible on a size X.
=> next patch they will make the distinction between the useful elements (those with a schematic) and those useless (without schematic), the first will count in the energy / the capacity cost
- Removal of Sanctuary to leave only Haven, Revamp of other planets as well?
- Added a recycling system to destroy assets and help clear chests

=>
All these things are beneficial in the end for the game and allow either to make it possible in the long term (without that NQ will ALREADY be closed) and the gain of resources also makes it possible to improve a lot of things, even if efforts are still always to do. But damn what, overall their servers hold up pretty well! And the voxel tech is really good, whether it's the build mechanic itself or the draw distance of player constructs.

 


Totaly agree, 

I've said it dozens of times, before slapping the players, tried to give them a lollipop before and a candy after.

Each mechanic should come with a new equivalent or new real gameplay. (Lua is only enough for the community of Nerds who will ever make the game live on their own. That doesn't count).
 



 

 

Its almost as if this game is still in an early state of development, where new features are being put in, and old features are being tweaked for longevity.  If only there was a word to describe this stage of development......oh well.  ON TO RELEASE! 

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