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NEW SCHEMATICS - Discussion Thread


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5 minutes ago, Kurosawa said:

 

How about the ability to link any number of containers to the core, and allow factories to pull from the core of the construct they are on (no link), that would reduce the massive amount of links not to mention extra containers and transfer units and so on.

It would also be more in line with what EvE does no NQ should like that.

 

Would make sense, keep it for space and static cores. 

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This new system is cumbersome, tedious, inefficient, and "not fun". It's absolutely gut wrenching how bad industry is wrecked. It's also very expensive if you can't sell your products chaining up the schematic tree to make an element.  This is so, so bad.  I just want to throw in the towel, but not sure if my corp will come back.  If they wipe and take all the skill points with...there ...literally is no point to play. 

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Sorry for people who want play industrial gameplay and who want to stay sit down in their industries and just watch machines running all the time.

This is not a gameplay. If you want this, go satisfactory and leave DU. You're place isnt here !

Personaly, i really like the update. Solo players can have their factory but not a mega factory. IF they want more industries than they can feed with schematic, they can buy schematic from market.

For org industry, it will need a really logistic work between members. And they can complete their missing schematics buying them at the market. 

 

So, schematics become like a money and can be uses as such for trade/exchange to the others players.

 

Imo, i think some price a too low. I think the beacon isn' enought expensive. Should be to 50m. Time is OK.
Same reflection for Tier 4 and 5 elements.
And some adjustment to be coherent. Ex: light schematic is more expensive than basic L atmo engine. I'm OK with the fact light is tier 2 and engine L basic Tier 1. But the materials use arent the same. Just to made an adjustment to not have the impression light is more usefull than an engine


Now, i need to update my excel file to adjust price with schematic

Edited by Kanamechan
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@kanadaj

I think a big part of the critique is not so much the idea of this change, but more the way it is done and how it affects some unreasonably more than others.

 

I agree with you when you say that this change appears to specifically benefit smaller industry and with it solo and small groups. The odd thing is that it goes against the very reason NQ is giving for schematics in general and this change specifically.

 

If in addition to this change, NQ would add something like a _very expensive_ industry element which can feed schematics into the production chain and possible allow for more Lua automation, you get an overall mechanic which caters to both playstyles. You get the easier access to industry for new/solo/small group players while you offer a path to bigger industry setups through additional premium components.

 

So, once again, what in principle may be a good idea from NQ is really held back by an incomplete/half/unfinished implementation and right now, the "we'll expand later" excuse really does not sit well seeing how we are very close to release.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

@kanadaj

I think a big part of the critique is not so much the idea of this change, but more the way it is done and how it affects some unreasonably more than others.

 

I agree with you when you say that this change appears to specifically benefit smaller industry and with it solo and small groups. The odd thing is that it goes against the very reason NQ is giving for schematics in general and this change specifically.

 

If in addition to this change, NQ would add something like a _very expensive_ industry element which can feed schematics into the production chain and possible allow for more Lua automation, you get an overall mechanic which caters to both playstyles. You get the easier access to industry for new/solo/small group players while you offer a path to bigger industry setups through additional premium components.

 

So, once again, what in principle may be a good idea from NQ is really held back by an incomplete/half/unfinished implementation and right now, the "we'll expand later" excuse really does not sit well seeing how we are very close to release.

 

 

I'm not sure you have pinging me but, your answer seems that yes. 

Exactly because we are very close to the release and the wipe then, why people are crying about they industries ? They will lost everythings in some weeks ! This is not a smart lame ! (for me)

 

And i'm sorry, but i don't want an automatic industry with Lua or somethings else. I'm not here to only watch machines running and stay afk ahead....

 

Personaly, i love the management of machines, check which need what and where. Lua can help with overlay / hud / data / reporting but i don't want Lua do it instead me.

 

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33 minutes ago, Kanamechan said:

And i'm sorry, but i don't want an automatic industry with Lua or somethings else. I'm not here to only watch machines running and stay afk ahead...

 

You may not want it and that's fine. But there is certainly those who do and taht si fine too. And IMO it would not be that hard for NQ to support both with this base idea. But it appears that is not what they want to do, which may well cost them in the end.

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5 hours ago, Kanamechan said:

Sorry for people who want play industrial gameplay and who want to stay sit down in their industries and just watch machines running all the time. This is not a gameplay. If you want this, go satisfactory and leave DU. You're place isnt here !
Personaly, i really like the update.

sorry you, Kanamechan - especially since you like the update which I think is cool because very contrary to the majority

 

BUT -> I dont think it is okey to raise judgements at other players and tell them, with other impressions then yours, to LEAVE DU and play some other shit. Most of us are adults, so please avoid such kindergardenslang. Makes me so aggro.

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8 hours ago, Kanamechan said:

Sorry for people who want play industrial gameplay and who want to stay sit down in their industries and just watch machines running all the time.

This is not a gameplay. If you want this, go satisfactory and leave DU. You're place isnt here !

 

Right, because you can always train skills. 

Or do mining. 

Or run missions. 

 

Ah, right...those also involve waiting around or being AFK.

 

So let's be clear: DU is the best game on the market for being afk. I can't think of a better place than DU (also the fact that industry was marketed as a core thing to do and it isn't like the game is overflowing with activities) 

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23 hours ago, Kanamechan said:

Sorry for people who want play industrial gameplay and who want to stay sit down in their industries and just watch machines running all the time.

This is not a gameplay. If you want this, go satisfactory and leave DU. You're place isnt here !

Yes, more and more people are leaving DU just for that reason and so many more. It's not just one change it's a chain of changes that have now resulted in gamemechanics we don't recognize since we started playing the game.

 

When you're the last player on the server, will you turn it off when you leave? Nah, it will be turned off before that...

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Good Afternoon Everyone,

 

I'd like to chime in with my opinion as a new player on this issue.

 

First off, I'd like to say that I was enjoying some of the struggle when I first began this game.  Learning how to play, what to do, how to divide my points and investments, and how to make money were all a difficult but rewarding part of the game.  I began investing schematics and industry and eventually zoned in on a goal of what I'd like to accomplish in this game.

 

The schematic update threw that completely out the window.  I wake up at 4A for my job and usually work until about 3P, get off and handle a stream.  I unfortunately do not have the time to invest in making schematics, then setting things to be made, mining, trading, and industry.  I cannot make enough fuel to supply players like I'd hoped, cannot get access to resources I require to begin making a fleet, and I cannot get from one place to the next fast enough.  

 

Again, this is only my experience as a new player, but without a fleet of players all working on making scrap, fuel, and warp cells, I cannot pursue what I had hoped.  

 

These new schematics have made it too time consuming and laborious for a single player to accomplish much without spending serious time, of which I cannot dedicate.

 

I will still be logging in every day and attempting to make progress, but I'm no longer having fun because I no longer feel like I am making any progress.

 

I really hope this changes.

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after patch Т1 and t2 product shematics copies still exist. I think NQ you don't get it. It's question of quantity of copies. It's about annoynoce. Running form smelter to smelter with pack of t1 copies

 

At least make shematics copies like other resourses that can be pulled out of container. If you are so stubborn.

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Hello, honestly the game for me received a big hit with the introduction of schematics. At that time we had to rethink or adapt our industries to the new system. This took not only the refunded credits but also a lot of time, for sure this time was not enjoyable for players paying a subscription that had to pay for it with real money.

Anyway we adapted and we also had to redistribute our talents. Ok, first time not a big deal.

We had to redistribute our talents again following the last reset... Ok, bothering but we did based on the game play that we knew at that time.

Now you drastically changed the schematics. This had a huge impact. For me, for example, it I will not be really possible anymore to run the industry I have and with whom I was earning some credit. The new schematics are way too complex and too time demanding, need to follow any single industry, calculate how many you need based on the batch and you need to see (able to do so only when no schematics are loaded in the industry) how many schematics you need to produce a batch of what you are producing... all this checking if you may be still earning something and waiting long time for any schematic to be produced. For me this is really NO GO.

The huge problem now is that I managed the talents based on what I was doing and producing, following your new idea you completelly messed up the talent distribution because now I don't need anymore the points where they are because I'm not going to produce practically anything and I find this really unfair.

Such changing in the gameplay unfortunatelly needs another reset for the talents but honestly I don't like at all how the schematinc now work so at the end do whatever you want. The good thing is that I actually don't play the game but I just keep updating and improoving my flight system for other players to use.

Good luck in the future, I think you need because the direction this game took it is not good.

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8 hours ago, Quaideluz said:

Blueprints are no longer sold by Aphelia on the market. Finally, a step towards more player autonomy and which will produce more interactions between players.

A very good thing.

Thanks NQ.

Now you get them out of your own UI, without leaving your base. Still provided by Aphelia, although tradable. 
 

They could be a source of revenue for non-industry players who want to sell them, but that will mostly be on the market, with no direct interaction between players. The only improvement that will come from hobbling industry is less overhead for the servers.

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43 minutes ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

 

You also need them in transfer units and NQ got me to a point that I'm not even sure if this is a bug or intended.

 

Schematics are not needed in transfer units, although it looks like they do because of a UI bug.

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49 minutes ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

 

You also need them in transfer units and NQ got me to a point that I'm not even sure if this is a bug or intended.

No, Transfer Units don't need them (confirmed bug, I think).

----

So after couple of days, the T1 and T2 Product schematics are the worst part in managing. I'd rather buy an expensive single schematic for those machines as before, but this is too tedious to keep track of and reminds me of the first patch when autominers came out with the fast calibration decline.

When I first read about this schematics change, I was under the impression that Elements needed schematics and now it's all Products as well.

If I had to start off as a new player I'd only produce for myself and not for the markets, it's too time consuming and doesn't offer any way of "fun". Previously I at least had to fly out and get the schematics, now I don't even have to leave the planet.

If there'll be a wipe, I'll have no motivation (left) to start any industry again.

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But only for me after the new schematics most of the talent points invested became useless since with this system I will practically not produce anything anymore?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Aviator1280 said:

But only for me after the new schematics most of the talent points invested became useless since with this system I will practically not produce anything anymore?

 

Yeah, that is a big part of the feel bad experience with industry. There is a massive talent investment, a massive time investment, and cost in getting the machines setup. Having artificial roadblocks on top feels like piling on.

 

I hope that we can some day reach a point where the balancing that NQ desires for indy takes the form of gameplay loops and not just arbitrary obstacles.

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On 7/29/2022 at 6:02 AM, Kanamechan said:

 

ok to produce 8 of the same items on 2 lines the copy times are over 24 hours ...more like 40 hours......this is absolutely unacceptably slow...im no industrialist......and i'm the last of my guild still playing.This new system is seriously flawed when you cant make small amount tier 3 items in a day because some dimwit cant comprehend small manufacturers.

If this cant be dealt with...........your gonna have another wave of cancelations

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2 minutes ago, Maliciouss1 said:

ok to produce 8 of the same items on 2 lines the copy times are over 24 hours ...more like 40 hours......this is absolutely unacceptably slow...im no industrialist......and i'm the last of my guild still playing.This new system is seriously flawed when you cant make small amount tier 3 items in a day because some dimwit cant comprehend small manufacturers.

If this cant be dealt with...........your gonna have another wave of cancelations

 

This new system is much easier on the smaller industry players than the large ones. If you are only producing a small number of items, you can get your schematics on the market and you may not be overcome with boredom loading machines with schematics constantly. This change really impacts large factories harder, because it just became so monotonous to maintain.

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12 minutes ago, Deathknight said:

 

This new system is much easier on the smaller industry players than the large ones. If you are only producing a small number of items, you can get your schematics on the market and you may not be overcome with boredom loading machines with schematics constantly. This change really impacts large factories harder, because it just became so monotonous to maintain.

sorry no  there ARE NONE OF THE SCHEMS THAT ID PAY FOR.this isnt a large affair i make 8 of the same item tier 3 and end copy is over ten hours long.........................they've obviously patterned after eve alot,except they cant seem to get eve had alot more content,and the ability to pay for expanding things on the manufacturing side.im not even talking about the desyncs increasing as well and machines going offline,or the crash's while in build.we could also discuss how moving things in build fails 1 out 5-6 times because the shit dbase they have?more i think about it....more i dont even want to bother logging in anymore

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Well sorry, I can't help you there. You are rambling about a lot of unrelated topics. Paying for schematics is a logical step. It costs money and time to copy them, as you just said. Whoever else is going to do this is going to want money in exchange. If you don't want to pay that is fine, but you will then have to wait.

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Ok I'm confused, although i'll admit i'm having a hard time paying attention to this perpetual slow motion train wreck at this point.  So the problem may be that i just don't care anymore.

 

But in the new system, do you still need to fly to a distant planet and purchase a master schematic, before you can make copies of them?  I thought that was what i read initially.

 

In the patch notes it says all old schematics were refunded, and schematics are no longer for sale on the market from Aphelia, so where do the master schematics come from?

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58 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

So where do the master schematics come from?

Schematics are now player created. When in game press Ctrl+K to bring up the new schematic interface where you can queue up any schematics you wish, provided of course you have the necessary quanta to produce them (note limit is 5 production slots right now). After a preset delay the schematics will become redeemable and you can add them to your active inventory. Thus there is no requirement where you need to visit the market to acquire schematics but these player produced schematics can still be bought and sold there similarly to regular items. All of the new schematics are now single run copies and the infinite run schematics from before have been completely removed with quanta refunded to their respective owners. Lore wise I believe the story is players are essentially copying the master schematics that Aphelia has stored in her databank and she is effectively charging a small fee for this service. It is unlikely that we will ever have access to the master schematics again but these new copies may eventually be added as rewards for various Aphelia missions or special events. Hope that helps.

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