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Pitch/Yaw/Roll speed nerfs ruin the fun of flying


J-Rod

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Can you please make the pitch/yaw/roll speed nerfs only active in space or pvp space?

 

There is already a check in the game to see if you are in atmosphere or space or even pvp space.

Maybe I am wrong here but I was led to believe that the pitch/yaw/roll speed nerfs were done for PVP balancing reasons.

It seems wrong to apply this nerf when flying in atmosphere where there is no PVP. 

Now all of the non PVP players have to deal with a nerf not intended for them but now ruins their gameplay.

I speak for many of us when I say that this nerf ruins my fun of flying anything even approaching 1 kt.

I used to enjoy flying and building large ships but now all large ships fly like a cow no matter how many adjusters.

 

Please NQ, can you make the pitch/yaw/roll speed nerfs only active in PVP space if they were done for PVP balancing reasons?

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1 hour ago, Jake Arver said:

By giving in to the crying and complaining of the PVP crowd

I don't think the PvP community asked for it. The adjustor nerf for heavy ships was an unexpected part of a multi-prong attempt by NQ to make heavy L-cores no longer the defacto meta ship. And it worked - these days M-cores and Scores are supreme. Light Scores can easily outmaneuver heavy Lcores by getting close and orbiting them, or just jousting back and forth at close range, forcing the Lcore to do 180s. This is a great way to balance ship size because it depends on player skill to execute and counter, not just stats. So I really like it. But I don't think it should affect ships in atmo.

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While I see what you are saying, it effectively means what NQ did was "fix" what PVP players found to be lacking. The problem I have, and I have seen others say the same, is that NQ tends to "fix" things by carpet bombing and hoping that will address an issue but ignoring the considerable collateral damage they create in doing so.

 

Throwing principal laws of physics out the door to give PVP players a way to "catch up" is not a solution, it is snake oil as you do not fix anything, you just bend the rules. NQ did not balance anything here, they moved the goalpost to allow the ball to pass. Balance would have been to tweak the performance of engines in a way which allows smaller ships to accelerate faster relative to their mass and with that catch up to larger ships before those can reach the same top speed. Or create a way for ships to jump ahead using warp at the cost of cooldown and maybe accuracy of fire, so they can have a chance of catching a (bigger) prey. 

 

That would then also require skill and experience while potentially be aided by talents to reduce the penalties of using a manoeuvre like that to offer a specialized "interceptor" role to players and further deepening the strategy aspects of combat.

 

This would effectively bring the same change to combat while it in no way affects anything outside that context. And for me, this is why I feel NQ is continuously missing the point and is not taking their time to think things through, it all feels like "ok this works, done.." and no-one is going "but wait a moment" .. Well, the community is but we all know that NQ really does not do very well in paying attention in that respect.
 

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6 hours ago, TobiwanKenobi said:

I don't think the PvP community asked for it. The adjustor nerf for heavy ships was an unexpected part of a multi-prong attempt by NQ to make heavy L-cores no longer the defacto meta ship. And it worked - these days M-cores and Scores are supreme. Light Scores can easily outmaneuver heavy Lcores by getting close and orbiting them, or just jousting back and forth at close range, forcing the Lcore to do 180s. This is a great way to balance ship size because it depends on player skill to execute and counter, not just stats. So I really like it. But I don't think it should affect ships in atmo.

 

Maybe PvP community did not ask for specially this, but..

PCP community asked "better pvp"

Overall changes and nerfs to make pvp better, affected non-pvp ships as well

 

@TobiwanKenobi Your Lightskipper Courier is was probably the best warp shuttle ever made. It was fun to fly Not any more

 

Before those "pro pvp changes" it weight was 65t , now its weight is 118t (correct me if i'm wrong)

That is about 80% increase of weight.

Now it hardly break gravity, now it is no fun at all to fly.

I have bought all your sips, just because Lightskipper Courier was so fun to fly.

So do you say to your customer that it is all ok... you have more fun...

 

Now I need a new warp shuttle. Will it be you or some other shipbuilder whom I by my new shuttle.

 

EDIT: Sorry I was barking a wrong tree... It is not shipbuilders fault when NQ breaks things.

Don't worry, I'll buy updated Lightskipper Courier V2.0 as soon you have it ready.

 

 

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The problem is that the changes NQ made pretty much destroyeed any chance of shuttle slike the skipper ever being viable again. These ship types are sacrificed by NQ in order to appease the PVP crowd..

 

I recycled my lightskipper because it became a useless ship after the changes. Not anything @TobiwanKenobi can be blamed for obviously, but it just sat on the pad without a purpose or function.

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9 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

The nerfs have pretty much killed the entire warp shuttle concept. By giving in to the crying and complaining of the PVP crowd NQ have effectively destroyed a good portion of entirely non related gameplay.

 

There is still hope.

 

When atmo-pvp comes we all get agile and fun to fly atmo ships back.

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5 minutes ago, Yoarii said:

Yes, the changes certainly killed Warp shuttles.

 

NQ, please add Warp Drive in sizes XS, and S with appropriate mass and limitations. And please,, share the design with us before implementing for feedback.

 

 

@NQ Also please add lightweight "Civilian pilot seat back"

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22 minutes ago, Yoarii said:

And please,, share the design with us before implementing for feedback.

 

We knew about the mass changes before the patch dropped and NQ was told the impact this would have.. As they claim they read the feedback, they choose to not listen and never provided any sort of arguments as to why these changes were needed to begin with.

But then again, several here have argued why the speedcap based on mass would be a bad idea ever since Entropy first made mention of it. There as well, did not listen nor provided any arguments why they did not consider any of the serveral alternative options the community provided, some of which were far simpler and cheaper to implement as they basically just meant tweaking some numbers from what I saw.

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Please NQ we need more modifier nerfs.
 

People don't seem to understand that a big 40KT freighter shouldn't turn faster than a 50Kg fighter.
 

Edited by Knight-Sevy
bad translate
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11 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:

 

People don't seem to understand that a big 40KT freighter shouldn't turn more glass than a 50 kg fighter

 

I agree with you that a 40kt freighter shouldn't turn quickly. But I do think that adding more adjusters should help instead of hindering the performance.

 

Many of us agree with larger ships turning slower but feel that the nerfing of the rotation speeds starts too early. Even my ships under 1 kiloton are significantly slower turning than they used to be.

 

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1 hour ago, Knight-Sevy said:

Please NQ we need more modifier nerfs.
 

People don't seem to understand that a big 40KT freighter shouldn't turn more glass than a 50 kg fighter

A big freighter with a large mass and inertia should turn, accelerate and de-accelerate based on how much force you apply in any given direction, just the same as for a lightweight XS ship. Nothing more, nothing less.

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46 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

A big freighter with a large mass and inertia should turn, accelerate and de-accelerate based on how much force you apply in any given direction, just the same as for a lightweight XS ship. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

sure, if there is adequate power supply so you cant stack 300 adjusters, 50 engines, 100 brakes, and...you get the idea.

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3 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

People don't seem to understand that a big 40KT freighter shouldn't turn more glass than a 50 kg fighter

 

As we are talking in space here, by itself that statement is not actually correct as for starters you do not "turn" in space and how do you "turn more glass"?

 

I'm not seeing anyone make such claims, could you share some linek to these?

for arguments's sake, staying wit het "turn" proposition you make, it is in fact possibel for a 40KT freighter to turn more quickly than a 50KG fighter. It all depends on how much forcew you can apply to make that "turn" happen.

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7 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

sure, if there is adequate power supply so you cant stack 300 adjusters, 50 engines, 100 brakes, and...you get the idea.

There is no energy or power supply ingame, so it remains one of the last free places where you can build what ever the f.. you want and totally disregard the "puritans" that want to dictate how a ship should look and act..

 

Should there be energy management ingame, sure in the form of reactors (not linked but pooled for the entire ship) that makes fuel tanks obsolete, add solar panels, power transfers incl direct sale modules, intake container for extra energy charges, gas (sun/gas giant) intake.

In essence 1 unified system that powers the entire ship and all elements, want more power add more reactors, want to optimize, remove or add better equipment. no need to add 1 million links and all fuel would become energy.

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9 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

sure, if there is adequate power supply so you cant stack 300 adjusters, 50 engines, 100 brakes, and...you get the idea.


 

Fairly right.
 

Since PvE players want to be treated like PvP players so much.
 

I hope we will soon have a capacity cost for all PvE items.
This will put an end to the ship with 50-engine and 300 adjustor, that has no reason to be in the game with respect to current gameplay loops and global balancing.
 

When you make a ship, you have to make choices and sacrifices, having your ship op tier everywhere is a pain in the ass in terms of making it.

Of course it could have some adjustments.
Once the capacity cost is in place, the devs can downgrade the sizes of engines and other elements and give them more power.

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6 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

 

As we are talking in space here, by itself that statement is not actually correct as for starters you do not "turn" in space and how do you "turn more glass"?

 

I'm not seeing anyone make such claims, could you share some linek to these?

for arguments's sake, staying wit het "turn" proposition you make, it is in fact possibel for a 40KT freighter to turn more quickly than a 50KG fighter. It all depends on how much forcew you can apply to make that "turn" happen.


I edited, it was late and I didn't pay attention to the bad translation.

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I thought that was what was intended, yes, just making sure ;)

 

Still not sure about the relevance of the statement nor its validity as what you claim is entirely dependent on the thrust to weight ratio available to make the change

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hey NQ just wondering if you guys are ever going to participate in these forums anymore. It would be great if you guys could respond to some of the things we talk about here once in a while.

 

It seems the only questions you guys want to answer are the ones submitted through the ask Aphelia form.

What is the point of these forums if none of the things we talk about in here get addressed or commented on by NQ?

There are dozens of valid questions in the forums that never get answered.

 

As always, we would like some real answers.

There seem to be a large number of people unhappy with the pitch/roll/yaw speed nerfs.  

I am fine with these changes if you make them only active in space or PVP space. 

Can you guys please make the pitch roll and yaw speed nerfs only active in PVP space since they were done to balance PVP?

 

Or do I have to ask that question through the Ask Aphelia form for you guys to read and respond to it?

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, J-Rod said:

Hey NQ just wondering if you guys are ever going to participate in these forums anymore. It would be great if you guys could respond to some of the things we talk about here once in a while.

 

 

I second this. And the questions that picked in Ask Aphelia are silly. "What is a megafactory?" Well that term was coined by players, why waste an Ask Aphelia answering something like that, instead of the legitimate issues that players want to interact with NQ about?

 

We all appreciate when people from NQ jump into Discord and chat a bit, but there are threads in the forums with questions that get upvoted many times and they never seem to get answered in any form.

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On 7/10/2022 at 11:19 AM, Yoarii said:

Yes, the changes certainly killed Warp shuttles.

 

NQ, please add Warp Drive in sizes XS, and S with appropriate mass and limitations. And please,, share the design with us before implementing for feedback.

 


Why, this is what happens, pretty much every time.


Players> The first iteration is simply just not good enough. Could you rebalance this?

NQ> Rebalances unrelated thing.

Players> Hey, that isn't what we really wanted. 

NQ> Already working on the next game breaking update.

Players> 50 forum post later.... still talking about the wipe

NQ> Hey, look, our next game breaking update is ready, who's going to help us find bugs, you guys! Wow!

Players> Hey that first iteration is still needing a massive update, its really bad.

 

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Wow another nerf (read limitation)?

 

Well i stopped flying in space all together after another nerf just crashed all my ships from one day to another and i just thought "Well F this shit, not gone fly untill they fixed it" that was i think pre-corona, even pre 0.23 so i just invested all my time in planetaRY BUILDS INDUSTRY TILL 0.23. oeps caps but not even bothered to retype, think i have it in me to also become developer.

So yes, when i noticed even the training ships were not able to fligh after the nerfs and those were not adjusted i just gave up. well a space sandbox that is not friendly to ships is still a sandbox.  For perfect flying ill go SE.

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With a small amount of tweaking, I was able to get both the DIA Einstein and the Pulse mk3 warp shuttles back into space- the Einstein will fly more or less straight up and out of atmo. Yes the cost is doubled, but it’s still way cheaper than the typical s-core. 
 

- not trying to contradict anyone but I thought a PSA was in order since I keep hearing warp shuttles are extinct.

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