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Player Subscriptions During Pending Wipe


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What I would be more interested in, what assurances do players get, provided the game has been released, that the things earned in the game will not be deleted every year? Currently you can see how persistent this game really is. Likewise, you can also see what rights and obligations are in the agreements. So really as persistent for players it is not currently, no subscription changes that either, whether 1 year or just 3 months.
So will there be adjustments in that regard to give players a little more protection in this "Persistent Universe"?

 

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On 6/25/2022 at 1:12 PM, blazemonger said:

Paying the subscription has one purpose, and that is gain access to the server. It's really that simple, you have no claim or right to anything but access to the server.

So no, NQ does not owe you anything once they wipe.  

I sadly disagree, I think the main point you missed is that NQ did not indicate a wipe when many people bought a subscription so many feel like it was a bait and switch.

 

But yeah, nothing we can do except hope that NQ isn't greedy and gives some form of credit to paid accounts.

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Not really, when asked, NQ alswsy made the argument that they had no intention to do another "full/global2 wipe like they did prior to beta but not once, never said anything to indicate they woudl not do another (partial) wipe at launch.

 

The mere fact that they never made that hard commitment of no wipe in any form shoudl really indicate that it was always an option and frankly I believe was always the plan.

 

I'm still expecting September, maybe early October..

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Just now, blazemonger said:

Not really, when asked, NQ alswsy made the argument that they had no intention to do another "full/global2 wipe like they did prior to beta but not once, never said anything to indicate they woudl not do another (partial) wipe at launch.

 

The mere fact that they never made that hard commitment of no wipe in any form shoudl really indicate that it was always an option and frankly I believe was always the plan.

 

Yeah, I think most people get that it was never a real promise or 100% commitment -- certainly not in any legal sense. Yet many people bought into the beta with the expectation that progress would roll over into the live game. 

 

Right or wrong, that expectation was set by NQ in the way that they presented the beta and reinforced by the fact that they were charging a live sub. It's on NQ to present the offer clearly and it wasn't clear to everyone. (It probably still isn't clear to everyone)

 

I think you're right that NQ always had this option in their mind, but...it is up to them to communicate clearly, not up to players to try to divine their half-spoken intent -- especially in the context of marketing a paid product. 

 

If it were so obvious that they were going to wipe, this discussion (and the 300 billion other threads about it going on for years) wouldn't be a thing. 

 

Back in the old days, MMOs would often give credits for issues with stability -- a month of credit for all active subs might be a good compromise between "pause/refund subs now" and "no, you get what you pay for". I don't really especially care, but it might earn a bit of good will with the existing players, which is in short supply right now. 

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This is not about "stability" though and also, it is pretty common for MMO style games to wipe prior to release coming out of beta.. Ignoring for a momnet DU is still pretty much early Alpha.. ;)

 

I guess it's a moot point by now anyway..

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Whether it is legally correct or not, if there is a complete wipe for the release, is not necessarily the most important thing about the topic. This is more about something like service and goodwill and how NQ deals with such circumstances towards the players. It is not only important for players with a subscription, but also for old players, whether they come back and new players who can be influenced positively or negatively by the behavior of NQ. 

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So by phrasing the original question the way you have you acknowledged that you already think there will be a wipe.  So why are you still paying?  If it's to save your stuff then that's daft as your stuff will be deleted.  If it's because you think there might not be a wipe and are trying to play it safe then why would you expect compensation for that?

 

I stopped paying because why pay for something that will be wiped.  You have the same option, but if you choose to pay I don't really think you get to act like you had no idea this was coming and ask for compensation.

 

If anyone gets compensation for anything it should be the time paid for *before* a wipe was announced IMO.

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2 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

So by phrasing the original question the way you have you acknowledged that you already think there will be a wipe.  So why are you still paying?  If it's to save your stuff then that's daft as your stuff will be deleted.  If it's because you think there might not be a wipe and are trying to play it safe then why would you expect compensation for that?

 

I stopped paying because why pay for something that will be wiped.  You have the same option, but if you choose to pay I don't really think you get to act like you had no idea this was coming and ask for compensation.

 

If anyone gets compensation for anything it should be the time paid for *before* a wipe was announced IMO.

 i have a 12m-sub

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3 hours ago, Zarcata said:

 i have a 12m-sub

Well if you bought it before the wipe was first teased you might have a decent argument for your money back there.

 

But TBH if feels like an absolute age since then.  Was it a year ago?  It certainly feels that way.

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28 minutes ago, RugesV said:

Or they could just stop pfooting around and make a decision. Then this discussion becomes moot. 

 

 

Really they have made a decision at this point whether they like it or not.  After all the discussion, all the aggravation, all the people who quit because of going so long without the answer, imagine if the answer which comes out is 'we decided not to wipe anything and we will just launch as-is and continue'.  Is that really even credible at this point.  Wouldn't it annoy even the non-wipe supporters because of the massive damage which has been done to the game over the time when no decision was announced?

 

I think at this point we all know more or less what will happen (wipe but keep talent points and BPs) so, in effect the decision is already made, and probably was some time ago.  People who are happy with that are still here, most of the rest are probably already gone and not coming back whatever (like with 0.23, it has been too long now).

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1 hour ago, Zeddrick said:

 

I think at this point we all know more or less what will happen (wipe but keep talent points and BPs) so, in effect the decision is already made, and probably was some time ago.  People who are happy with that are still here, most of the rest are probably already gone and not coming back whatever (like with 0.23, it has been too long now).

That's just speculation. Although I think thier is only 3 reasons for not announcing. 1, they are going to wipe but don't want to loose player base by announcing. 2, they are not going to wipe, but don't want to say so incase they have to for technical reasons. 3, they don't care and can't be bothered to decide. 

 

I hope not 3. I don't think 1 either, because I don't think the players that are paying are a huge income as it is. Which really leaves option 2. And would really make sense for the long delay in answer.

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20 minutes ago, RugesV said:

That's just speculation. Although I think thier is only 3 reasons for not announcing. 1, they are going to wipe but don't want to loose player base by announcing. 2, they are not going to wipe, but don't want to say so incase they have to for technical reasons. 3, they don't care and can't be bothered to decide. 

 

#1 seems likely but is misguided as the damage they may try to prevent, if any, has been done by staying quiet

#2 I can't consider as we're close enough to release that such a reason to not announce really makes no sense. 

#3 seems unlikely to be athing but who knows..

 

I think that if NQ choose not to wipe but have reservations about a possible technical reason popping up unexpected, theyh woudl just have to stick to the existing mantra of "only when really needed", which as I see it really only applied to doing another full wipe but NQ have been vague enough  about his to be able to aply it any which way they like.

 

The only reason why just saying "we will not do another wipe at release of any kind unless we really have to" would not work is.. If NQ has allready made the decision to wipe. So for me, the only logical consludion would be that there wil be a wipe.

 

 

And I believe that the majority of the currently active or "waiting" players are actually fine either way (but prefer a wipe by now) and it would really be in the game's best interest if NQ just announced allready. But as I can see release not being al lthat far off, we will know soon(tm) anyway.

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31 minutes ago, RugesV said:

That's just speculation. Although I think thier is only 3 reasons for not announcing. 1, they are going to wipe but don't want to loose player base by announcing. 2, they are not going to wipe, but don't want to say so incase they have to for technical reasons. 3, they don't care and can't be bothered to decide. 

 

I hope not 3. I don't think 1 either, because I don't think the players that are paying are a huge income as it is. Which really leaves option 2. And would really make sense for the long delay in answer.

Yeah, right.  So 90% of players stop playing because no decision on a wipe is made.  You are not going to wipe.  But you don't want to say so just in case 'technical reasons' so you just sit there and watch the game literally bleed to death.  Just in case.  That would be totally nuts.

The whole game is completely empty now.  I just played for a 1/2 hour (mostly because I needed to do some talent point things) and went to some busy places, including market 6.  Didn't see a single player the whole time.  The markets are dead, most of the people I still talk to are not playing.  And it's all because of the lack of a wipe decision.  If the only reason for that is "we didn't want to say "no wipe" just in case technical reasons" then they will look like total and utter fools.

Actually they look like total and utter fools right now so who knows, you could be right!

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It could also be that it is intentional. Just keep quiet and many players will no longer log in. This way you can turn down the performance and save money.

Whether there will be a wipe or not, it doesn't matter. There will be good advertising and this will attract new and old players. Many then get back into the game and forget this whole scenario. Why stress about it? Just wait for the release and sweeten the time until then with something nice.

 

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1 hour ago, Zarcata said:

It could also be that it is intentional. Just keep quiet and many players will no longer log in. This way you can turn down the performance and save money.

Whether there will be a wipe or not, it doesn't matter. There will be good advertising and this will attract new and old players. Many then get back into the game and forget this whole scenario. Why stress about it? Just wait for the release and sweeten the time until then with something nice.

 

It's hard to believe anyone with an MMO would be stupid enough to let people get out of the habit of playing it and hope they come back at launch time.  But it's not impossible.  Perhaps there will be advertising.  And perhaps it will actually attract new and old players.  And perhaps that will even get back the ones which were lost.  Let's hope so ....

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 6/27/2022 at 5:38 AM, Rokkur said:

To get this topics back on the rails, I still feel NQ should suspend subscription charges until they announce wipe date and wipe details vs. milking it.

Milking would have been not even hinting that a wipe was being considered. NQ let us know what was being considered. It involved multiple scenarios. They explained the rationale for each.

 

NQ gets roasted fairly frequently for its decisions and communications (and I am not going to say they are blameless in all those cases). At this point, it is pretty understandable that they are not going to give an update until they have something firm.

 

There are a lot of really amazing multi-core constructs out in the game and I know NQ really appreciates the time that was put into them. If I had to guess, I would say that saving these constructs is the main reason they have not just said the wipe is happening and you get nothing but BPs. In the end, they may not have the time or money to solve this issue, but I appreciate that they are trying to do the right thing.

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On 6/27/2022 at 5:38 AM, Rokkur said:

To get this topics back on the rails, I still feel NQ should suspend subscription charges until they announce wipe date and wipe details vs. milking it.

Milking would have been not even hinting that a wipe was being considered. NQ let us know what was being considered. It involved multiple scenarios. They explained the rationale for each.

 

NQ gets roasted fairly frequently for its decisions and communications (and I am not going to say they are blameless in all those cases). At this point, it is pretty understandable that they are not going to give an update until they have something firm.

 

There are a lot of really amazing multi-core constructs out in the game and I know NQ really appreciates the time that was put into them. If I had to guess, I would say that saving these constructs is the main reason they have not just said the wipe is happening and you get nothing but BPs. In the end, they may not have the time or money to solve this issue, but I appreciate that they are trying to do the right thing.

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On 6/27/2022 at 5:38 AM, Rokkur said:

To get this topics back on the rails, I still feel NQ should suspend subscription charges until they announce wipe date and wipe details vs. milking it.

Milking would have been not even hinting that a wipe was being considered. NQ let us know what was being considered. It involved multiple scenarios. They explained the rationale for each.

 

NQ gets roasted fairly frequently for its decisions and communications (and I am not going to say they are blameless in all those cases). At this point, it is pretty understandable that they are not going to give an update until they have something firm.

 

There are a lot of really amazing multi-core constructs out in the game and I know NQ really appreciates the time that was put into them. If I had to guess, I would say that saving these constructs is the main reason they have not just said the wipe is happening and you get nothing but BPs. In the end, they may not have the time or money to solve this issue, but I appreciate that they are trying to do the right thing.

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