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WHY ARE PLAYER'S BEING SO MEAN TO THE DEV'S?

I think it is time we have an honest accounting of the real problems here, cause there is more than one elephant in the room, but there is definitely an Elephant King!

While the developers are sitting here both refuting/ignoring criticism and saying they know what is best,
does NQ stop to think about why members of the community "provoke"(vocally criticize) their developers, vs. NQ just treating their critics as bad apples?

1. Could it be that the players feel their trust has been betrayed by the developers?
2. Could it be that the developers have ignored players, and players see themselves being blatantly ignored?
3. Could it be that players feel disrespected by the developers after years of funding/subscribing to & testing their product?
4. Could it be that every time the community sounds the alarm, the devs continue to plow right into development icebergs like the Titanic?
(game breaking/buggy/forced updates, that ruin our ships, make our work obsolete, or further erode the little incentive/purpose there is to do things in game currently.)

5. Could it be the destabilization injected by the developers announcement, and delay to wipe/wipe timeline?
6. Could it be the "fight club" we aren't allowed to talk about, where criticism of developers results in forced removal of those critics?
(As they are discounted as trolls, unconstructive, and undesirable rule violating members of the community, many which were once die hard defenders of this game in the beginning)


7. Could it be NQ keeps replacing things that were promised to be community driven, with NQ curated and controlled perks that will eventually give an advantage to NQ pets and fanboys. (vs. actually giving us more tools to socially connect, say a better chat system, the ability to send messages to offline players in game, and more capability to build and manage our own communities/host events.) Ya know things we have wanted for years now, and you refuse to implement.

Meanwhile...

8. Could it be that anyone that has been here more than 3 months, knows developer decisions have resulted in a massive shedding of players.


THE KING ELEPHANT

The truth is the developers advertised, took funding, and sold a different promised game vision,
and now for a couple of years held a death grip on their own broken vision of the game they actually wanted to make instead.

A bit of bait and switch isn't it? The crux of the problem, the dissonance between developer and community.

What we have in common now is that both players and developers feel disrespected, and that isn't something you see with...
Kenshi, Slime Rancher, Valheim, Satisfactory, Kerbal Space Program, Astroneer, Monster Sanctuary, etc etc etc...

We were promised and even given something very different in the beginning than what we have now. A universe that used to have us excited and invested, and even devoted to Dual Universe, every time servers came back online. Now we are being given something VERY VERY different, and we don't like it, and all those that have left the game may have liked one or two changes, but overall disagree with overall pivot of development.

Those of us still here still see the bones of the game we were promised, dying to a slow necrosis of development decision cancer that is killing what gameplay we loved best about Dual Universe. The community debates/speculates helplessly back and forth between each other in the back seat, while developers say " I hear you, now hold my beer" and continue to drive off the cliff.



So here is my CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK to our dear dev's: (Not that it will change their behavior)

1. Go back and review what people loved about Dual Universe at the launch of BETA.
(When people would spend all day building, and flying and mining, even when the servers were like gimpy hamsters with epilepsy.)

2. Go back and review what you promised people during Kickstarter, when you sold packages, when you made promotional material and we were saying "take my money!".
    Then look at the contrast and see just how far you have strayed from the world you promised. If you still think you are delivering what you said you would, then ask yourself
    why you feel you are saying one thing and we are hearing/playing something very different?

3. Go back and review the community members that used to defend you, and encourage you, and support you.
    Ask why old allies now seem to be enemies, and loyal followers and masses alike have abandoned your current crusade.
    If you can still justify all those you have lost, then ask yourself who will remain, who do you hope to replace them with?
    and then be very clear about which type of players you want to attract from here on out and which of us should go find another game.

It isn't that we see you as less than human, it isn't that we want to hurt you as the developers, and we surely don't want to see Dual Universe fail.
What we do want is posted every day by members of your community, it is no longer just a few rogue players demanding change, it is the majority of people posting.
There is a darn good reason that the "INTERNAL DISCUSSION thread has 42 PAGES of disheartened community members posting mostly negative feedback/criticizing NQ.
That new threads are about problem 1,2,3 and a,b,c... and that we sometimes create our own threads for topics vs. the pinned threads that you unpin and bury acting like it never happened.

If you want feedback, YOU ARE GETTING IT, and your actions need to reflect you are paying attention vs. "we hear you" <continues same behavior>.
It is the same as saying "I'm Sorry" and then the very next moment committing the very same offense.

Right now your request for feedback, seems like a request for praise and gratitude, and then you are upset with us, when we don't feel or express either.



CONCLUSION:
You act like we are turning our back on you the developers, but if you continue with the bait and switch, and tightening control on the narrative and in game replacing player driven features with NQ managed/controlled things that can be leverage/perks to promote an elite few (64) teachers pets "DU Oligarchs" (influencers/promoters), then the gaming community will ultimately turn its back on you if you continue this path.

Then everyone will lose, the developers, and the community, and Dual Universe will fade away to be forgotten along with all those before that made these mistakes and suffered similar fates.

Games that have players sharing positive experiences about them, have those posts because that is what the community feels about the product/service. DU used to be one of them. So stop vilifying your community for telling you over and over again how they feel because it isn't what you want to hear and it doesn't offer another solution that you will ignore, time and time again.

Create an experience that your community loves, and you will see it reflected in our communication.
Edited by Rokkur
Formatting and readability.
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The problem with OP is that he blames the devs, which is really not fair. 

 

It's not the devs who make the decisions and in case they do , that is still not because they are bad at what they do, it is because the people in middle and upper management are not doing their job.

 

What some of the devs need to do is get better at not taking some of our critique and comments personal as it's not. If they "get their feeling hurt" because of what is being said here, they should consider that maybe that is because the effort they put in may not get recognized due to the way their management is misrepresenting and in some case mishandling it.

NQ is a massively top heavy company where the people at senior and above level vastly outnumber the ones who are "on the floor", doing the actual work. And that is quite obvious in how much NQ talks without communicating and says a lot but has very little to show for it.

 

Another obvious sign of this is that while yes, there is a more frequent cadence of updates and announcements but what is _actually_ changing and improving for the game? It seems that NQ is just waddling along as if they are still in Alpha, while they are planning to actually release their game not long from now. Problem there is that the game IS effectively still in Alpha with so much still in flux, many elements of the game yet to be implemented and a good few potentially disruptive changes still ahead.

 

Big signal on this was one of the answers in this week’s podcast, just casually saying that you yet need to get started on (memory) optimisations mere months away from a release is a big sign you do not have your priorities in check and that has NOTHING to do with the devs on the floor, it has to do with the people in charge not setting the correct priorities and not managing the project very well.


 

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Posted (edited)

kk, very fair Blazemonger...

It may not be directly the DEVs (Coders, Talent, Artist, etc) fault... I am just blanket blaming NQ as a whole, cause as a WHOLE they are failing their community. I don't want to split hairs about which department is at fault with NQ... I use the term developers/NQ interchangeably cause I see NQ as the "Company" developing Dual Universe.

I am not blaming Deckard directly, nor do I have a problem with Rubicon or some of the support staff... I do have a problem with trend of events that has transpired since "BETA" launch... I feel we are reaching a point of failure, and we are being marched towards the end of Dual Universe.

I feel either that NQ as a company is some how dishonest, or out of touch with reality of the state of Dual Universe, with the whole community screaming fire fire as the game burns, and then NQ is like... everything is fine.

I feel like I am going to be told by moderators that this post and this reply are going to be "Unconstructive" but I feel it is, cause we are trying to point to the problems that need fixed, and we as the community have suggested hundreds of times recommendations for fixes, and can't control that NQ refuses to act on them.

Edited by Rokkur
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I think there are no community anymore. a few people arguing about PvP/building on main forum of MMO game... sad... 

as I said in other thread my discord community position is 'we already have said what we want, we tired of repeating'  

 

so I'm sitting on huge space base and I have resources to build 100 L exotic ships. but there is no one to play with... 

 

Edited by Catarix
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6 hours ago, Rokkur said:

I feel either that NQ as a company is some how dishonest, or out of touch with reality of the state of Dual Universe, with the whole community screaming fire fire as the game burns, and then NQ is like... everything is fine.

 

Close to my perception of this, I think however that some in NQ are still inside JC's "reality of things bubble", thinking that it will all work out and the setbacks are not really all that severe.

 

For me, and from many of the things we learn from things like the current series of devblogs, it seems that while we have had a good few indicators that release is close and NQ is working towards that, many designers and devs seem to be pretty much in "Alpha development mode" still and just stick to their "we're going to do all these things" while much of what they are talking about will really be very problematic to get into a game once it is released as it may well and to a serious degree disrupt the game as a whole. That disruption itself is not unexpected due to the nature of the changes, but these should happen during Alpha stage development and not this close to release. Add to that we just learned that NQ has not even started (memory0 optimizing yet and you start to get the picture.

 

The disconnect between the two is the problem. Fact is that DU is still very much an Alpha game and if you treat it as such and look objectively, while there is some delays, the game is not that far from where you'd expect it to be at this point as once you finish Alpha, actual beta stage will generally be fairly short. And I really think DU as a game is not that far from being ready, but ready for actual beta, not for release.

 

I’d really wish NQ were able to secure another 8 figure investment, allowing them to close back down to the point where they can “pause” subscriptions, release their limitations on having to take drastic actions to be able to progress faster and remove expectations of a release coming soon.

 

I can certainly see a future where NQ could start proving ROI on the existing and the mentioned additional investment with a solid base game and a healthy outlook on expansion.

After the mess JC left behind, they need more time and a better management of the project. Unfortunately, as it stands, it seems neither is an option.
 

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4 hours ago, Catarix said:

I think there are no community anymore. a few people arguing about PvP/building on main forum of MMO game... sad... 

as I said in other thread my discord community position is 'we already have said what we want, we tired of repeating'  

 

so I'm sitting on huge space base and I have resources to build 100 L exotic ships. but there is no one to play with... 

 

The community has been boiled down to just a few hardcore players who either don't care and are completely disconnected, are here to watch it burn and just want to add more salt to the ocean, or are a white knight and actually believe in NQ and will be the long forgotten fanboys. 

 

I'm sitting on billions worth of elements, ore, quanta, and will honestly be disappointed when the wipe comes, then takes its all, but then I'm optimistic to have a fresh start, but then I dread that the game is just going to fade out again after a few months. Which, could be countered with more community involvement, but anything they try at this point is going to have 10 people instantly complaining that it isn't good enough, and with no patients to wait for something good to happen, which if we're being honest, NQ doesn't have a good track record of implementing a system, then rebalancing it, beyond the first week or two of bug fixes.    

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To your point of give us stuff we'll like - they need to stop taking stuff away. 

 

example .23) I loved the solo progression of the game, but then they added schematics. 

example 1) I loved mega nodes, but they took them away, and asteroid mining hasn't been updated to make it interesting.

example 2) I loved building but now element clipping, and the lack of any meaningful updates besides the VPT has made it frustrating.

example 3) I loved using large ships to go exploring and flying around but now large ships just don't have much of a use.

 

Then basically everything tied to a healthy market (industry, running mining units, trading elements) really stopped when they started the wipe talk, which honestly should have never been a thing, NQ should have kept their mouth shut and said a month out from release, we're wiping, this is what you can expect. 

 

The content updates have always been one step forward, two or three steps backwards.   

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, space_man said:

Which, could be countered with more community involvement...


So I felt NQ had this during the Golden Era between Beta launch and .23 update. It was so amazing even when things were problematic. You had a community of players like a bunch of crack addicts during downtime waiting to rush the server gates. 

The main reason I feel we lost it is that we are all building sand castles on a beach (Dual Universe - beach), and then each wave (update) from NQ is like a wave from the ocean and starts eroding/erasing both individual player projects and community projects that were developed.

The big one for me was the tile taxes, to "open up more territory" for all the players, that was paired with the removal of mining/megas. They should have never been done at the same time. The worst thing about this situation is you had dozens and dozens of players warning NQ about the devastating impact this would have, and it is exactly what happened, and NQ pretty much dismissed us and decided to do it anyway. The economy and value of all things was destroyed within just a week, while a burden was placed on the player with weekly taxes. Also the value, purpose of so many ship designs became pretty much obsolete.

This removed incentive to play, and forced players to abandon thousands of tiles to make room for others, when the community suffered a population loss not boom.
Players don't want to spend 100's of hours playing only to have their projects removed/wiped/destroyed/broken,obsolete.

This instability, and Alpha approach to development choices in DU is stifling to motivation and creativity.

Edited by Rokkur
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Most valuable and long-term-game-health important player-made content (political/social/creative) died when large orgs understood it will be forever until NQ made any content for them and self-eliminated (or go endless stasis).

 

All building and lua crap is fun and so on, but its not something that can carry such mmorpg.

 

People will not connect in underwear with heart beating in middle of night to see some nerd made another useless ship using 1 trillion voxels or something. 

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6 hours ago, Rokkur said:


So I felt NQ had this during the Golden Era between Beta launch and .23 update. It was so amazing even when things were problematic. You had a community of players like a bunch of crack addicts during downtime waiting to rush the server gates. .

I think the DEVs where addicted too, and now maybe not so much. 

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6 hours ago, Rokkur said:

The big one for me was the tile taxes, to "open up more territory" for all the players, that was paired with the removal of mining/megas. They should have never been done at the same time. The worst thing about this situation is you had dozens and dozens of players warning NQ about the devastating impact this would have, and it is exactly what happened, and NQ pretty much dismissed us and decided to do it anyway. The economy and value of all things was destroyed within just a week, while a burden was placed on the player with weekly taxes. Also the value, purpose of so many ship designs became pretty much obsolete.

The fact that they refused to rest talents, when game fundamentals changed, was honestly where they were most ignorant. 

 

In their defense, yeah, you shouldn't need to reset talents every patch, but come on.... its like giving the community the middle finger, when you made fundamental changes and didn't reset but now without any major fundamental changes they are resetting talents (and then also still not telling us what their planning for release).

 

The community has to speculate, which Id say is a major source of the divide between NQ and the community and within the community. If they told us what the top secret plans were to release then we wouldn't need to have 42 pages of discussion on it, rather we'd all be thinking and working on stuff for release. I personally would be building starter factories, with my updated lua (which BTW they broke a ton of stuff) but because I don't know the details for release I can't be bothered to play the game. 

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2 hours ago, space_man said:

its like giving the community the middle finger, when you made fundamental changes and didn't reset but now without any major fundamental changes they are resetting talents (and then also still not telling us what their planning for release).


Exactly! It just makes it all seem so disconnected and arbitrary the rational behind development choices. In the military they talk about "need to know". But nothing about DU is a top secret military project that could result in loss of life. So why all the cloak and dagger with the community? 

Refusing give us solid answers to things like a wipe for months can only come off as either dishonest, indecisive, or timing things for NQ's own interest at the expense of the community, and it is not a good look for NQ at all, regardless the intent.

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On 6/18/2022 at 3:59 PM, Rokkur said:

The big one for me was the tile taxes, to "open up more territory" for all the players

Yeah but we were running out of available tiles, man! Too many players, not enough space! Badum tish...

 

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1 hour ago, Bobbie said:

Yeah but we were running out of tiles, man! Too many players, not enough space! Badum tish...

 

Hey you need to stay positive there Bobbie! Be POSITIVE that we are running out of tiles due to all the players leaving other games to play DU.

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On 6/18/2022 at 4:59 PM, Rokkur said:

The main reason I feel we lost it is that we are all building sand castles on a beach (Dual Universe - beach), and then each wave (update) from NQ is like a wave from the ocean and starts eroding/erasing both individual player projects and community projects that were developed.

I don't want to keep repeating myself like this, but we told them. Ohh.. we told them so many times.. And there is a reason why some (most?) of the veterans don't bother with making bug rapports any more.. like ever.

 

The dev process at NQ was off long before beta. And from the beginning we told NQ that their way of doing stuff using waterfall but without the finished design to follow which makes it doomed to fail, and turning the process upside down with large infrequent patches (upcoming Mercury is patch 30) even when the game was in pre-alpha was going to generate a lot of technical debt.

 

And now that debt is collecting, and NQ is forced to make hard sweeping changes way, way to late in the process for a MMO with active players.

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From my point of view , without necessary agree or disagree with any of you guys , I saw a beta game implementing from start . I got "wiped" a lot of times and choose to continue playing and having fun. We all knew we are joining a beta game and there will be changes and this is where I have to give the green light to NQ . I dont mind wiped at all cause I saw that a game got better with the changes and how a game is getting better in beta state .Tell it  balfa i dont mind .But got better . Got better because it is way more balanced in terms of performance and gameplay than before. Such a big game is really need to change and get better ofc.  And I was after all happy and satisfied witnessing it. The whole transformation of the game. 

In where I want to point out what you could expect in this game is that it had weapons from start , and so pvp . This means that the pve gameplay only by it self is not a sustainable kind of game. You will eventually get bored after some time. Where if there is pvp the game will continue to provide fun to the players and more over sustainability as a game .(Balanced economy and money sinks). Well ofc now that we are expecting a wipe (which havent been decided yet , but is more likely to happen ) the interest of the game is declining. But the barebone of the game is there -after all that partially wipes - and it will improve more after release I think.

Also there is more content coming and more to come after that , and so...

I dont expect to have all my stuffs before planet revamps geometry resets or basic barebone game design like schematic removal because of exploits . I dont like bugged constructs neither . The core game is what you brought you here and what it will continue to hook you around. Which yes it has changed a lot but it was necessary to do so in order to be somehow ready for release but more over sustainable as a game .

Edited by Habitant
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Remember performance only got better because they lost so many players after initial launch. They NEVER have had the numbers they during first month of release. People already started leaving before 0.23

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2 hours ago, CousinSal said:

Remember performance only got better because they lost so many players after initial launch. They NEVER have had the numbers they during first month of release. People already started leaving before 0.23

 

Certainly. During the start fo beta, concurrent logins peaked aroudn the 3800 mark which was hit in the first two weeks. After this, until NQ closed the API they left open allowing us to see these numbers, they allready dropped below 3K.

 

Taking into account that there are roughly 30K backers and most of those has at least 1 beta ey to give away or use.. Well.. a picture emerges.

 

Haven currently shows 927 teritories claimed, Sanctuary shows 43K andd a bit

 

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Honestly, I cannot fault the OP or any of the comments in this thread.  That said this thread is like a carbon copy of so many other threads.  Its starting to get sickening with how many Nay-sayer posts there have been, including the "dev discussions" which are just full.

 

I'm not a kickstarter backer, but I've been here and active since Beta launch, through the ups and downs.  One thing I learned along the way is NQ as a company is full of old people.  They have no concept of social media, youtube, or the proper use of internet terms.  Their ability to communicate ideas is severely lacking because no-one who has ever posted has a background in communication.  How do we know this?  NQ used the "term" pod-cast for a 3 min video.  Which mainstream internet refers to as a normal video.  They used it for a 2min 38 second video, which mainstream internet refers to as "shorts" (under 3 mins).  A pod-cast generally is 30mins to an hour long in length discussing at length topics that are involved in said pod-cast.  

What we have is a case of tech people trying to communicate with other people, and many of you know that tech people aren't too good at social engineering in general.  This is totally okay as well. Because they try right? 

Wrong.  

 

Today NQ took down the PTS.  They announced in the same post a scheduled maintenance tomorrow.  Literally everyone I know is now discussing if the Mercury Patch is going live tomorrow.  ITS A VALID question when the devs state this;

 

Hello Noveans @here, The PTS is now offline. We want to thank all of you for all the bugs and feedback that have been submitted on the forums. If you have any bugs or feedback left to report, please do so here: https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/24890-mercury-update-on-pts-bugs-feedback-thread/ We have also scheduled a maintenance for the live server tomorrow morning in 17 hours on Tuesday 21st, at 08:00 UTC. We expect the maintenance will last for 1 hour. Thank you for your support! :DU:

The problem is they don't understand that this creates negative feedback loops with their community.  Players begin to argue on if the patch will go live tomorrow, they begin to worry if tomorrow they will be reset, if tomorrow all LUA will break.  The White Knights say "No way it will launch tomorrow, they wouldn't do that without telling us" and the Black Knights say "They just might, they've done it to us before!"

Now don't get me wrong, I like NQ-Deckard (poster) and the rest of the NQ devs I have spoken too.  When you speak to people with respect these people are always willing to help you out, or answer questions in general as long as its within their ability to do so and does not pertain to stuff they aren't ready to talk about or share with the community.  These are GOOD people in general, and their posts are often heartfelt even if the information isn't constructed in the best fashion.

The issue most feel though is that the devs will say "The cheese is really good, you will like it.!" And we the community have to ask "What kind of cheese?" "I like cheddar but not parm" and this is what causes further strife with the devs, and between the players.

If NQ is going to move towards release and game as a service model, they really really need to hire a Communication/Social Media Professional and soon.

 

Just some thoughts after reading the forms for about 4 hours this morning while listening to people debate if skill reset is happening tomorrow.

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31 minutes ago, DekkarTV said:

One thing I learned along the way is NQ as a company is full of old people.  They have no concept of social media, youtube, or the proper use of internet terms.  Their ability to communicate ideas is severely lacking because no-one who has ever posted has a background in communication. 

 

31 minutes ago, DekkarTV said:

If NQ is going to move towards release and game as a service model, they really really need to hire a Communication/Social Media Professional and soon.

 

Good point. We only had @NQ-Naunet , she was as authentic and engaged as they come. Unsurprisingly, she didn't last long. What a shame.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DekkarTV said:

Honestly, I cannot fault the OP or any of the comments in this thread.  That said this thread is like a carbon copy of so many other threads.  Its starting to get sickening with how many Nay-sayer posts there have been, including the "dev discussions" which are just full.

 


First I wanted to say I really liked your post and what you had to say on the communication issues. There are probably so many other threads about this because it has continued to go unresolved for years now with no light at the end of the tunnel. Additionally, the Nay-Saying may be sickening, but not anymore sickening as the failure of NQ to address the issues stated in the OP of this thread, and there are many and the list only grows each update. 

Instead of working on these pain points they throw something at us that we never asked for, that is itself broken, or breaks more things, and then the list just continues to grow. It is a vicious cycles that has led to attrition in the community due to NQ's past performance showing they are either unable or unwilling to change.

Edited by Rokkur
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3 hours ago, blazemonger said:

Haven currently shows 927 teritories claimed, Sanctuary shows 43K andd a bit

I assume that these numbers were pushed very strongly by alt accounts on both moons. New players are a minority, there are just too few who show interest in DualUniverse.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/20/2022 at 12:19 PM, Zarcata said:

I assume that these numbers were pushed very strongly by alt accounts on both moons. New players are a minority, there are just too few who show interest in DualUniverse.

It is really disappointing to see, and I feel Haven was also a bandaid again by NQ. When they could have instead designed a solution that allows the tile to restore itself to its original state and for us to move our Sanctuary tiles. I feel when they wipe they must wipe Sanct and Haven and that it would be better to only have a single Sanctuary style planet as there is already too much between Sanct, Haven, and Alioth.

This is necessary because I am certain that 30,000+ of those players are never coming back and they hold some of the best territory that will remain forever dead/vacant, and lack their true potential to the community.

We simply don't have the player base. If they want to have multiple planets, then reduce the planet sizes by 50-70% to make atmospheric travel less boring, as there is only so fast you can go without burning up. But this bring up another issue in which space travel is also very boring.

I think this highlights a positive/negatives space balance issue.

Positive space ='s tiles/territory where something interesting exists.
Negative space ='s where there is nothing of interest, purely extra space that increases travel time.

I also fear even if we could bring everyone closer together, then the servers would also not be able to handle so many players in active proximity to each other which we have seen time and time again. It seems any time you manage to get more than 20+ people in one area then server errors and desync start to become disruptive to gameplay.

Especially if flying, building, or surface mining is being done by all those players.

 

Edited by Rokkur
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On 6/20/2022 at 2:19 PM, Zarcata said:

I assume that these numbers were pushed very strongly by alt accounts on both moons. New players are a minority, there are just too few who show interest in DualUniverse.

 

I would suggest that Sanctuary's big numbers were driven by the initial public beta launch. Things were busy back then -- the game actually had a large number of players joining. Around 40,000 is reasonable in that context.

 

I'm not saying alts haven't contributed, but I'd guess that ~40,000 is an okay ballpark estimate for how many people joined public beta in the early days.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if it was substantially more, since many of them didn't get past the "speeder phase". Even paying for a longer sub, I think most of them didn't play more than a day or two. 

 

Good thing the new FTUE fixes this by giving players a tile and outpost as their first thing...! That won't lead to clutter and lag at all...! 

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On 6/18/2022 at 9:27 PM, space_man said:

... just a few hardcore players who ...snip... are here to watch it burn and just want to add more salt to the ocean...

 

That's not how fire works.

 

As far as mixed metaphors go, I think we have ourselves a winner. LOL.

 

But yes, I meet far more players on the forum than I do actually in game.

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