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New server - way to reconcile PvP and no-PvP players


Catarix

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5 hours ago, Catarix said:

maybe. I bought DU exactly because of 'Player driven game' slogan. It expected to have the same freedom as 'you know what game'

so I wish this game my best and I will check it next year. 

 

Exactly, people joined this game because it was pitched player driven. But if NQ pops up at every turn say "no you can't do that" it's not player driven at all. My guns shouldn't magically stop working if I pass a random point in space.  There should be no aphelia market at all (except maybe xs parts for newbies at haven)  orgs should he able to own planets and set taxes they feel appropriate, not pay aphelia.  It's all bad all around and game won't be here very soon because of this.

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2 hours ago, CousinSal said:

Exactly, people joined this game because it was pitched player driven.

 

Yeah, I hear you there....but at the same time, 'player driven everything' was always going to be a tall order with the way NQ imagined it.

 

NQ decided to equate "a world driven by players" with "a world without NPCs" and that was never going to work from a design perspective.

 

NPCs fill a lot of roles in a typical MMO -- they drive combat and conflict and the economy. They drive narratives, give quests, sell items, and "print" currency. They fill out an otherwise empty world. In DU, they obliterated the concept of NPCs without ever replacing them with any equivalent system. 

 

The missions system is a joke. The ability to set up your own market? Not even that. PvP? Riiight, such a wildly popular and slick feature, that... 🤷‍♂️ 

 

In many ways, their quest to make the game "player driven" was counterproductive from the start.

 

It started as too vague an idea with no details and therefore the result is this...shell of a thing that isn't a cohesive game at all. 

 

I do think a "player driven" game would would work, but only with player-controlled NPCs....even then, it needs at least one powerful NPC faction to ensure that the game is fair for new players and to enforce balance (especially in a single-shard environment!).

 

An MMO where players shape the world and build civilization is a fantastic idea....but that doesn't mean you throw the concept of NPCs in the trash because in reality they are very much required for any MMO that hopes to capture the first 'M' in that acronym. 

 

I respect NQ for trying to innovate in their design, but some of this innovation really set them down the wrong path from the very beginning and there's no finding the right road now. They can only make the best with the journey their on. 

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The PvE community will never allow a PvP server to exist, they don't like PvP, but they don't like creative servers either, these players like to live the illusion that they are preparing to be pvp players in the future, when they have more skills, when losses can be allowed, when the game works better, or any other excuse that allows them to postpone that decision in the future, staying on a PvE server when there is a PvP server would put them in an emotional situation that is difficult to accept. They just want to keep the illusion of a future with PvP.

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That is just nonsense @Sycopata and I think you know it.

For one, "waiting" to dive into PVP until you can afford losses IMO is actually a good strategy, do not put at risk that which you can't afford to lose.

Also, PvE plares are not "latent PvP players". both playstyle have merit, can mix to some degree and frankly, in a game like DU specifically for PVP playstyles mostly will need to.

 

If intended to be a serious response, I'd say that your post mostly just exposes you and how you think of people with different playstyles. Obviously you are entiled to your own opinions but here I could not disagree more.

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6 hours ago, Sycopata said:

The PvE community will never allow a PvP server to exist, they don't like PvP, but they don't like creative servers either, these players like to live the illusion that they are preparing to be pvp players in the future, when they have more skills, when losses can be allowed, when the game works better, or any other excuse that allows them to postpone that decision in the future, staying on a PvE server when there is a PvP server would put them in an emotional situation that is difficult to accept. They just want to keep the illusion of a future with PvP.

 

PvP doesn't have inherently more merit than PvE and the implication that it does is really tiring. If you really want skill-based PvP, try playing a game engineered and balanced for PvP, because DU is hardly the epitome of skills-based PvP. It barely holds interest for most people for a reason. 

 

It's like there's this implication that if you don't want to PvP it means you have no skills or are too emotional to "play the real game"....which is a baffling attitude in this of all games, where PvP is an obvious afterthought, shallow in both skill and strategy, and immensely non-performant. 

 

"When the game works better" isn't an excuse by the way, it's an obvious reality to anyone that's ever played this game. 

 

No one needs an "excuse" to avoid engaging in a game mechanic that's boring, poorly designed, non-performant, or simply not fun. If there is a group of players that's too "emotional", I think we know which group it is...but most PvP players are reasonable and realize that enjoying PvP doesn't make you any more or less of a "real player" especially in this shoddy little game where combat is mostly terrible. 

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Seems like what we asked for around the wipe... 

 

Give us a new system. Let players pick what system to start into. Give us a star gate tech to connect systems. Make that take 180 days to craft before players can move from system to system. New players get a new fair start, older players get to keep what we worked for, NQ honors the commitments before about not erasing all our progress and everyone is happy. Well almost everyone for the pure reason of complaining I'm sure someone will say we cannot split the community, although this is not a spilt it is a way to get new player experience while also allowing old players. Most of the highly dedicated players will create new accounts or have some alts in each system. Six months from that all is the same and we have a grand system to allow for NQ to make more and more systems over time. 

 

All the other stuff around why a wipe should happen overlooks the simple question of how that would be any different 18 months after a wipe. Take all the pro wipe reasons and ask that question. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Endstar said:

Seems like what we asked for around the wipe... 

 

Give us a new system.

 


People needs to start understanding that what we have now is what will go to release and will be what we have for quite some time after, there will not be any further major changes and I do not expect there will be unless NQ manages to somehow get the game to attract many tens of thousands who not just show up, but stay for the next year or two OR find a healthy pot of gold with some investor.


And while I completely disagree with what you suggest and think it is a terrible idea, even IF NQ would be willing to consider it, they will need a healthy 8 figure funding round to even start conceptualising such ideas.

 

And if you think the current or eventual PVP community in the game will be able to raise that amount of funding, at that point they may as well do it themselves as they love to stay inside their own bubble and prefer to not be bothered by people who choose to play differently it seems. To achieve what you are looking for you will effectively have to remove a lot fo what makes DU the game it is as you will never be able to achieve the performance you are looking for otherwise.

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