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Feedback to mission nerf


Walter

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NQ consider please to increase rewards for missions because you nerfed income strongly for Organisations and Single players to hinder alt abuse.

 

Suggestions:

 

 1. Increase reward for single mission considerably 

 

 2. Or a player could carry now 3 or 4 mission packages 

 

 3. Or player can carry as many mission packages ship can fit

   (but mission packages are to be seen for other players in pvp space this would force to work in groups and have escorts bringing back team gameplay)

 

There are almost no mission runs right now because most players will not risk a ship that cost between 50 Mil and 100 Mil to fly over 5 hours to gain just 7 Mil. 

 

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I think missions are better now than they were pre-nerf, but I do agree that they were over-nerfed and need a buff now.  Risking 4 hours in PvP space just to make 7 mil does seem like a bit of a non-starter for most players.

 

Of course, with the radar bugs any attempt at mission running now would be interesting (unless they fixed it since I last played, but I don't think so), and it might be that rather than the rewards which is putting people off.  Someone could be following you out of atmosphere (or just still see/track you at 2su distance with an atmo radar) and you might not see them at all.  They'd probably need to fix that first to see for certain how many players are prepared to spend 4 hours in PvP space for 7 mil.

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7 minutes ago, Zeddrick said:

I think missions are better now than they were pre-nerf, but I do agree that they were over-nerfed and need a buff now.  Risking 4 hours in PvP space just to make 7 mil does seem like a bit of a non-starter for most players.

 

Of course, with the radar bugs any attempt at mission running now would be interesting (unless they fixed it since I last played, but I don't think so), and it might be that rather than the rewards which is putting people off.  Someone could be following you out of atmosphere (or just still see/track you at 2su distance with an atmo radar) and you might not see them at all.  They'd probably need to fix that first to see for certain how many players are prepared to spend 4 hours in PvP space for 7 mil.

With radar bug you can now fly all the missions you want unhindered. But its not ment to stay this way forever

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Just now, Walter said:

With radar bug you can now fly all the missions you want unhindered. But its not ment to stay this way forever

You can?  How would you know whether or not you are showing up on someone else's radar when you shouldn't be?  Or doesn't it work like that now?

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You need to exit seat and enter it again to see someone on radar that makes it really bad to chase someone, warp scouting no more due it so you can fly in the middle of a pipe PvP org will not see you ever

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Yes they need to increase rewards in missions.

+ 1/3 for speed nerf = for more time to finish mission

+ 1/3 for speed nerf = for more risk reward ratio 

so a mission that gives now 7 mil should give now 11-12 mil

This way you board your alts and you can make it worth it.

Also availability of all missions was better before than only selected missions are available during the day .

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2 minutes ago, Habitant said:

 

This way you board your alts and you can make it worth it.

 

The Nerf was because alt abusing but that each player can carry a few packages would make alts obsolete

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I think NQ overestimates the number of players willing to AFK for 5+ hours...they're balancing against a small beta pop and people at release probably won't do this in such numbers that it "unbalances" an economy (which won't ever be balanced, anyway). 

 

What is the proper in game reward for being AFK and reading a book or doing chores while a ship slowly crawls across the void...? Of course, most of NQ's game mechanics involve being AFK, so I guess this version of being AFK is more risky than others and needs a better reward...?

 

Is this really where DU is at, now...where every facet of gameplay is based on timers...so rewards are doled out based on how risky it is to be AFK...? 

 

Let's also be real about the motivation -- people being logged in for 5+ hours is more expense for NQ. They are all about reducing costs right now.

 

They want people to play only enough to justify a sub, but not so much that it costs them more money...and the design of the game is reflecting this priority.

 

Log in, check timers, do chores, log out. Actually want to play the game? Nah, that's not a priority. Those willing to spend some of the most boring 5 hours of gameplay in any modern game...? Not going to be rewarded for costing NQ more money. 🤷‍♂️

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31 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

I think NQ overestimates the number of players willing to AFK for 5+ hours...they're balancing against a small beta pop and people at release probably won't do this in such numbers that it "unbalances" an economy (which won't ever be balanced, anyway). 

 

What is the proper in game reward for being AFK and reading a book or doing chores while a ship slowly crawls across the void...? Of course, most of NQ's game mechanics involve being AFK, so I guess this version of being AFK is more risky than others and needs a better reward...?

 

Is this really where DU is at, now...where every facet of gameplay is based on timers...so rewards are doled out based on how risky it is to be AFK...? 

 

Let's also be real about the motivation -- people being logged in for 5+ hours is more expense for NQ. They are all about reducing costs right now.

 

They want people to play only enough to justify a sub, but not so much that it costs them more money...and the design of the game is reflecting this priority.

 

Log in, check timers, do chores, log out. Actually want to play the game? Nah, that's not a priority. Those willing to spend some of the most boring 5 hours of gameplay in any modern game...? Not going to be rewarded for costing NQ more money. 🤷‍♂️

I like to be able to be productive in the game just be keeping an eye on radar and do others things while flying missions. Got plenty of combat already out of running missions, hauling myself or intercepting others. Hauling its a valid gameplay not that afk how many want you belive and other games have this like SC or Archeage. But God forbid DU gets running missions and its lucrative then the ones not willing to take the risk to haul go full outcry. What are we supposed to do then ? Just stand by a MU and calibrate all day? Some people like that its their gameplay and its how they generate income. Let us also have our way to generate income how we like then.

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5 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

Risking 4 hours in PvP space just to make 7 mil does seem like a bit of a non-starter for most players.

But you only risk it a few minutes during leaving atmo and then ~2U from the Radar range, beyond that you should not have any issues. Unless you're flying in the pipe and thus doing it the wrong way....

 

As for flying a ship costing 50M-100M... WTF are you doing! Are you nuts!?!? Why would you fly such an expensive ship? Fly a way cheaper ship! Fly safer! Profit! Look at the recent Alien Core Wars, the Asteroid camps, there are just not enough pirates to camp all the planets waiting for mission runners to fly away... Unless something changed drastically since the 14th of April I see no reason to change mission running to pay out more by either more per mission or able to do more double, triple or quadruple dip beyond the current capabilities. If the player population ever grows again an pirates infest the skies, then maybe NQ needs to look at missions, but not by paying out more, but by giving options to avoid pirates, at the moment it's just a lack of (interested) pirating bodies that makes missioning possible...

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33 minutes ago, Cergorach said:

But you only risk it a few minutes during leaving atmo and then ~2U from the Radar range, beyond that you should not have any issues. Unless you're flying in the pipe and thus doing it the wrong way....

 

As for flying a ship costing 50M-100M... WTF are you doing! Are you nuts!?!? Why would you fly such an expensive ship? Fly a way cheaper ship! Fly safer! Profit! Look at the recent Alien Core Wars, the Asteroid camps, there are just not enough pirates to camp all the planets waiting for mission runners to fly away... Unless something changed drastically since the 14th of April I see no reason to change mission running to pay out more by either more per mission or able to do more double, triple or quadruple dip beyond the current capabilities. If the player population ever grows again an pirates infest the skies, then maybe NQ needs to look at missions, but not by paying out more, but by giving options to avoid pirates, at the moment it's just a lack of (interested) pirating bodies that makes missioning possible...

Last time I played (which was right after the patch admittedly) I could pick something up on radar and it would stay on radar forever no matter how far it got away from me.  So I could pick up a mission runner when they take off and then I could intercept them in the middle of their run when they think nobody is watching them.  It might have been fixed now, but it sounds like the radar is still a bit iffy.

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5 hours ago, Walter said:

I like to be able to be productive in the game just be keeping an eye on radar and do others things while flying missions. Got plenty of combat already out of running missions, hauling myself or intercepting others. Hauling its a valid gameplay not that afk how many want you belive and other games have this like SC or Archeage. But God forbid DU gets running missions and its lucrative then the ones not willing to take the risk to haul go full outcry. What are we supposed to do then ? Just stand by a MU and calibrate all day? Some people like that its their gameplay and its how they generate income. Let us also have our way to generate income how we like then.

The outcry was not because missions were lucrative. The outcry was because missions were primarily lucrative with alt accounts. It has nothing to do with not being willing to take this risk, especially since there was essentially none.

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49 minutes ago, Nayropux said:

The outcry was not because missions were lucrative. The outcry was because missions were primarily lucrative with alt accounts. It has nothing to do with not being willing to take this risk, especially since there was essentially none.

My point was that just calling missions an afk activity that needs to be removed is wrong. If you fly just in a line and do not change trajectory a few times and watch radars you will not succeed. This while the population is normal also radar is working. Outcry because of alting yes also but also screwed the mission running business for people that did them legit for Orgs. Many hauled for others, with randomized special missions  that activity is done. Much better if it is allowed to stack missions for each player making redundant alting and adjust less reward for each extra package. 

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5 minutes ago, Walter said:

My point was that just calling missions an afk activity that needs to be removed is wrong. If you fly just in a line and do not change trajectory a few times and watch radars you will not succeed. This while the population is normal also radar is working. Outcry because of alting yes also but also screwed the mission running business for people that did them legit for Orgs. Many hauled for others, with randomized special missions  that activity is done. Much better if it is allowed to stack missions for each player making redundant alting and adjust less reward for each extra package. 

I don't think many had a problem with the AFK thing.  The problem I had with them was that stacking large numbers of alts resulted in a crazy effort/reward ratio because once you got past a certain scale you could pretty much double the number of alts without really doubling the effort required to run a mission.

Whatever gets done there should be a maximum amount per day which can be earned by one single flight from place to place.  Just like there was in Archeage mentioned above (I haven't played it in a long time).  With most games that's done by making a maximum haulable volume for a ship, but that's harder to do in DU because the ships are craftable and you can make some really big haulers.

I think my ideal nerf would be to make the ships keep getting slower as they get bigger, so the really big 50kt haulers would go at 1K/s or whatever.  Adding more packages would just make the haul take even longer and get even riskier.

 

But at least it is no longer possible to make tripple-digit millions in a single day.  That would be totally game-breaking once DAC are introduced.

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8 minutes ago, Zeddrick said:

I don't think many had a problem with the AFK thing.  The problem I had with them was that stacking large numbers of alts resulted in a crazy effort/reward ratio because once you got past a certain scale you could pretty much double the number of alts without really doubling the effort required to run a mission.

Whatever gets done there should be a maximum amount per day which can be earned by one single flight from place to place.  Just like there was in Archeage mentioned above (I haven't played it in a long time).  With most games that's done by making a maximum haulable volume for a ship, but that's harder to do in DU because the ships are craftable and you can make some really big haulers.

I think my ideal nerf would be to make the ships keep getting slower as they get bigger, so the really big 50kt haulers would go at 1K/s or whatever.  Adding more packages would just make the haul take even longer and get even riskier.

 

But at least it is no longer possible to make tripple-digit millions in a single day.  That would be totally game-breaking once DAC are introduced.

I could live with that what you suggest that one putting more and more packs into the ship gets so slow that it will take a few days to reach destination 

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NPC missions shouldn’t pay out a lot in general, they should only be a filler, between the human made missions. And if you now ask "which human made missions?

Alright, a brief history of heavy hauling, and why we don’t really do it between planets:

.23 comes out, creates (amongst many other problems) a quanta sink which needs to be countered.  Thus, bots now buy ore for double the amount, 25q/l, and daily login is increased to 150k per day, just for the time being *cough*

 

For quite some time, this means that the need for ore transport died completely. There used to be plenty of people mining on outer planets and ore used to be much cheaper there, as barely anybody uses it outside of Alioth. And due to this, massive amounts of T1 ore was slowboated to alioth. patch.23 killed that, ore was now even cheaper on alioth compared to other planets, as the bots died there first.

 

Mission system was introduced, it was meant for players to make missions for players. It is not only really bad for that purpose due to generally flawed designs (volume limit, mission amount limit, unable to split stacks at market), but also, the NPC missions pay massively, can be done with alts, and cost no collateral in comparison.

 

So, because bots killed interplanetory hauling, there are now new bots offering interplanetory hauling missions.

 

Missions get nerfed, but are still much better than player missions, due to the other reasons.

 

 

If I have a dead possum and mold in my coffee mug, changing the brand of coffee is not solving the mysterious issue of my coffee tasting odd. Maybe I should remove the mold and the dead possum first.

 

 

All the bots ruin the supposedly player driven economy, and the shittily introduced mission system for players amplfies it. And I will continue to just warp my ore in from my sicari miners myself, because I am unable to set up a useful mission for it.

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1 hour ago, Gottchar said:

NPC missions shouldn’t pay out a lot in general, they should only be a filler, between the human made missions. And if you now ask "which human made missions?
....

 And I will continue to just warp my ore in from my sicari miners myself, because I am unable to set up a useful mission for it.

As nice as player created missions sound, I think the big problem with them will be that nobody is prepared to pay someone enough money to do their hauling for them in order to make it worth doing.  Perhaps you could put some specifics up here?  What would the value of the ore be that you would want hauled, how much do the warp cells cost?  How much are you prepared to pay on top of the warp cell cost for a haulier?  Or are you hoping they will slow boat it more cheaply than you can warp it?

 

My guess is long before hauling gets expensive enough to get people to actually do it people will just decide hauling is too expensive and that they will warp cargo themselves.

 

Which is what you're doing right now ...

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There is only 1 way to save the player driven part, but NQ doesn't have the balls to do it. First you remove warp.  2nd you remove all bots. 3rd you remove 4 planets (12 is too many). With the remaining 8 planets you reorganize them so 3 starter alioth/madis/thades are around 30-40min travel at 30k baseline.  Then take 4 other planets that are around 1.5 hour distance on average.  Then make 1 distant planet like 2.5 hours away. Now move alien cores appropriately.  Redo the ores that are on planets.  Alioth/madis/thades only have T1 and T2. The 4 intermediate planets will have 2 T3 ores each, + some T1. T4 and T5 will be asteroid mining. Now you have to actually move shit around, actually fly your ship, but most flights will be in acceptable travel times. 1 org can't dominate the solar system with only 50 pilots. Force projection is solved. Logistics matter. It's quite simple but NQ doesn't know how to make an open world pvp game. 

Edited by CousinSal
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+1 to add higher tiers of parcel containers

+1 to add no origin missions (e.g. bring me x, you figure out where it comes from)

+1 to add space only npc missions

+1 to add QOL to the interface

+1 to increase the limits per player and org

+1 to add reoccurring missions

 

Anything please, NQ, please!!!! Make the mission system work.

 

 

 

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Transporting missions is gameplay nonsense right now.

 

It's literally a fedex quest that encourages you to pick up a package and travel AFK for several hours.

 

Encouraging players to leave their games running during an AFK activity should be prohibited. Especially given the resource consumption of Dual Universe.

 

All this because NQ does not want to implement a warp interception system. In just 3 points we can fix everything:
- Let people warp with their missions. (there is already a maximum limit of 3 missions / days)
- Force a ship to reach its Vmax to be able to warp (in order to keep a minimum of piloting gameplay and fuel consumption)
- Implement interception warp mechanics to balance the whole.

 

More fast gameplay, no afk time waste, more fun.

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