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DUAL ACCESS COUPONS - STATUS UPDATE - discussion thread


NQ-Wanderer

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* how are DACs added to the game? Do players need to purchase them or will they be sold for quanta?

 

* Unlimited transfer from player to player? What could go wrong, there are no bugs.

 

* What will happen with players who go a month or 90 days without using a DAC? Will constructs be abandoned once they go inactive? Will talents pause or reset in anyway?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mucus said:

Therefore everyone should now receive the equivalent increase in DACS to equal promised value in the kickstarter shouldn't they, given the advertising.

 

Exactly what they talked about doing back when the price drop was announced.

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4 hours ago, Drew_2943 said:

I took a contributor pack, no way to use my DACs to test this first iteration.

Why not create bDACs (Beta Dual Access Coupons) to test the implementation of the feature and make sure that everything works as expected ?

 

That seems perfectly reasonable.  Basically grant everyone "temp DACs", that look and feel like real DACs except they carry some identification tag and can be purged at release.  Give everyone enough to play until release, via the same mechanism buying regular DACs will be, except price them at a dime apiece.  I'd throw a dollar at it to get enough to help test the system... since they need to make sure the credit card processing worked as well.

 

Great idea!  At least for Patron class people that are playing free right now.  Not sure how to integrate that into those Beta players paying a subscription.  Maybe continue the subscription as the primary method of payment, and have dime DACs grant an additional hour of play - or something similar - just for testing purposes.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Bolomorte said:

Who is gonna burn these for quanta if everything will be getting erased eventually?

Obviously DAC will come in after the wipe and on release

 

 

5 hours ago, Gottchar said:

If I tell John Doe: "I sell you a DAC for 20M quanta" and he gives me the money, and I do not give him the DAC, that is not even against the TOS

It actually is.. RL scams are against TOS and specifically mentioned

 

 

5 hours ago, Ving said:

So now they are only worth 7-9 euros? Are backers going to be given an increased allocation due to the devaluation?

 

4 hours ago, Mucus said:

Therefore everyone should now receive the equivalent increase in DACS to equal promised value in the kickstarter shouldn't they, given the advertising.

 

This is a point that was raised back when NQ announced subscription in April 2020, obviously they have not said a word on this since. I actually expect they will bump gametime to something bwteeen $12 and $15 on release with DAC going at $18-$20

 

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Most people know there will be a much needed wipe before release and DACs released . I have been playing since about 4 months after beta start . Shortly after I started playing I heard they were going to do DACs I was kind of put off by it because it is like pay to win kind of deal . I have seen this kind of system ruin some games before you will have people buy their way to progress then it ruins the economy markets kind of like people that got lots of beta accounts or subbed 10 or more accounts to exploit mission system . I do not do that I feel its more  of accomplishment to have one or two accounts and not game the system to further wealth in game ; I only have one DU account .  I know one person in real life that would buy $300 dollars worth  of DACs in month just to say oh look at me look how far I got just to show off ; then they would not have money for real life bills or stuff for their kids . I know it will be a money maker for DU but I do not agree with its use and I quit other games  for its use because it is pay to win kind of deal , then people bragging oh I got this or that it is like oh please you basically bought that with real money in a sense using DACs . So in summary I do not like the DACs system it is pay to win but maybe if they limited it to like you can buy 3 DACs per month to sell it would be better than unlimited and  I have quit some games because of them .

 

Also here come gold sellers and account sellers which is against TOS . Oh great this crap again in another game .

Edited by Evoson
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2 hours ago, Silentkills said:

I really hope this is only happens when the game is fully released. Feel like we were told alpha testers play free for all of beta. I'll feel cheated if I have to start using my DACs to keep playing. 

 

Completely agree - I suspect doing so would even be a violation of some Kickstarter (inc.) agreement - e.g. the terms and conditions between NQ and Kickstarter.

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2 hours ago, Evoson said:

Most people know there will be a much needed wipe before release and DACs released . I have been playing since about 4 months after beta start . Shortly after I started playing I heard they were going to do DACs I was kind of put off by it because it is like pay to win kind of deal . I have seen this kind of system ruin some games before you will have people buy their way to progress then it ruins the economy markets kind of like people that got lots of beta accounts or subbed 10 or more accounts to exploit mission system . I do not do that I feel its more  of accomplishment to have one or two accounts and not game the system to further wealth in game ; I only have one DU account .  I know one person in real life that would buy $300 dollars worth  of DACs in month just to say oh look at me look how far I got just to show off ; then they would not have money for real life bills or stuff for their kids . I know it will be a money maker for DU but I do not agree with its use and I quit other games  for its use because it is pay to win kind of deal , then people bragging oh I got this or that it is like oh please you basically bought that with real money in a sense using DACs . So in summary I do not like the DACs system it is pay to win but maybe if they limited it to like you can buy 3 DACs per month to sell it would be better than unlimited and  I have quit some games because of them .

 

Also here come gold sellers and account sellers which is against TOS . Oh great this crap again in another game .

 

Do you know the ingameprice of one DAC?
No?
I dont know either, because the price depends on how much Quanta other players want to pay for playtime.
If players dont want to trade DACs, the price will be very high. If the players trade DACs a lot, the price will be very low.
So it depends on the players, and the players only how the DACs are used, traded and priced.
Its just a chance for players who have not much RL money but a lot of time to work ingame to play the game. 
Is it pay to win, when you need to work ingame for it?
I say definately No! You cannot "Win" in a creative sandbox when there is nohing to "Win"
It is Play to pay!
People who say, DACs are pay to win, have no clue how DACs work...

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7 hours ago, BiGEdge said:

 

Do you know the ingameprice of one DAC?
No?
I dont know either, because the price depends on how much Quanta other players want to pay for playtime.
If players dont want to trade DACs, the price will be very high. If the players trade DACs a lot, the price will be very low.
So it depends on the players, and the players only how the DACs are used, traded and priced.
Its just a chance for players who have not much RL money but a lot of time to work ingame to play the game. 
Is it pay to win, when you need to work ingame for it?
I say definately No! You cannot "Win" in a creative sandbox when there is nohing to "Win"
It is Play to pay!
People who say, DACs are pay to win, have no clue how DACs work...

I know from many games how they (DACs) work . Say  in DU say if one month game time is regular $10 they maybe $12 for a DAC . At the start after a wipe it will be cheaper most will not trust others for out of game purchase on website unless transfer is controlled by NQ . Lets say 20 million h if someone buys 20 in a month and sells them that is 400 million quanta more they did not have or work for . So that person instead of say 150 million first month of profits in game  has 550 million instead after selling DACs . Say they are miner buy more ore , mining calibrations  , pay for tax on 200 tiles , buy better mining ship goes on on .....

What if they are in industry and schematics are still in they get higher recipes that others can not get yet though they need some talents to help so they sell stuff cheaper and have advantage over others or they just buy 400 million in ore off others to make extra 30% mark up off of items crafted and sold .

Maybe they are into PVP buy all stuff to deck out ship with high teir early to take over some T5 asteroids or alien core .

All these scenarios and more are from them buying DACs and selling them to get more quanta in game to have advantage in one way or another and eventually it will mess with the in game markets and economy .

So it is pay to win . Even  if they do  limit DACs to like 3 per month per IP address it is still pay to win just longer time to scale up  , I would rather they did not have them but they said they would so it is their call . Anyone buying or selling on markets it will affect . I have seen this buying token and selling for in game currency in many games it ruins them . Though for someone broke in real life it does help a little but eventually you will have to grind 2 or 3 weeks to pay for a DAC to have a month game time which would be no fun so to repeat it will affect most unless you just mine build and don't trade with anyone .

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21 hours ago, Ving said:

DACs had a monetary value quoted in the alpha packs, 18 euros, which partially justified the price.


So now they are only worth 7-9 euros? Are backers going to be given an increased allocation due to the devaluation?

As things stand now... A single month of subscription is €9,99. That more months of subscription is less per month, then buy a subscription. I suspect that if you buy 12 DAC at once for RL money, you'll also get a discount. But the ingame token will be more expensive then a subscription, motivating people to subscribe and paying a premium for 'p2w'.

 

How things will stand after release.... I suspect that the subscription price might increase to €14,99 or if they really want to emulate EVE... €19,99/month... 😉

 

Compare that to the EVE prices of €19,99 for a single month or €270,99 for 2 years (€11,29/month) vs 500 PLEX (1 month) is €24,99 or 20.000 Plex (40 months) is €649,99 (€16,25/month).

 

So price increase incoming! 😉

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13 hours ago, BiGEdge said:

 

Do you know the ingameprice of one DAC?
No?
I dont know either, because the price depends on how much Quanta other players want to pay for playtime.
If players dont want to trade DACs, the price will be very high. If the players trade DACs a lot, the price will be very low.
So it depends on the players, and the players only how the DACs are used, traded and priced.
Its just a chance for players who have not much RL money but a lot of time to work ingame to play the game. 
Is it pay to win, when you need to work ingame for it?
I say definately No! You cannot "Win" in a creative sandbox when there is nohing to "Win"
It is Play to pay!
People who say, DACs are pay to win, have no clue how DACs work...

DAC certainly can be pay to win.  Say, for example, you and I have an argument or perhaps you blow up my ship.  I can spend a ton of RL money on DAC, sell it and use the quanta to hire players to blow up all your stuff.  (We will ignore the safe zone for now).  Or perhaps I could find out what schematics you have and use the money to undercut and saturate those so you can't make money from them any more.

 

Either way I paid RL money and could be argued to have won.  It might not be your definition of a win but I only care about my definition.

 

But there are limits on the pay to win because there have to be enough people wanting to do the oposite (play to play) to match you.

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2 hours ago, Cergorach said:

As things stand now... A single month of subscription is €9,99. That more months of subscription is less per month, then buy a subscription. I suspect that if you buy 12 DAC at once for RL money, you'll also get a discount. But the ingame token will be more expensive then a subscription, motivating people to subscribe and paying a premium for 'p2w'.

 

How things will stand after release.... I suspect that the subscription price might increase to €14,99 or if they really want to emulate EVE... €19,99/month... 😉

 

Compare that to the EVE prices of €19,99 for a single month or €270,99 for 2 years (€11,29/month) vs 500 PLEX (1 month) is €24,99 or 20.000 Plex (40 months) is €649,99 (€16,25/month).

 

So price increase incoming! 😉

That would be really crazy.  Current price is high IMO.  Eve has lost a lot of players by going from 14.99 to 19.99 and it's eve.  With 20,000 concurrently active players at the peak every day.  And players with 10+ year histories.

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1 hour ago, Zeddrick said:

With 20,000 concurrently active players at the peak every day.  And players with 10+ year histories.

Erm... I'm seeing 23.723 online right now, I've looked earlier this week and saw 26k player online (and I'm not looking at peak hours). Last Sunday the peak was at 28k+.

Source: https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Peak was 65k+ in 2013, it's already been way lower for years. Also keep in minds that these are not unique players, these are unique accounts...

If players are leaving massively, the stats don't show it that way at all.

 

This player with a 17.5 player history is still around, because I'm not an idiot and paying $20 per month. I pay per year, buy via Markee Dragon and often via a sale. With the next Omega sale I'll be resubbing my accounts with a 2-year code. I did the same with DU, buy a year for my accounts.

 

With current inflation in the western world, not expecting a price increase at launch is not realistic...

 

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55 minutes ago, Cergorach said:

Erm... I'm seeing 23.723 online right now, I've looked earlier this week and saw 26k player online (and I'm not looking at peak hours). Last Sunday the peak was at 28k+.

Source: https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Peak was 65k+ in 2013, it's already been way lower for years. Also keep in minds that these are not unique players, these are unique accounts...

If players are leaving massively, the stats don't show it that way at all.

 

This player with a 17.5 player history is still around, because I'm not an idiot and paying $20 per month. I pay per year, buy via Markee Dragon and often via a sale. With the next Omega sale I'll be resubbing my accounts with a 2-year code. I did the same with DU, buy a year for my accounts.

 

With current inflation in the western world, not expecting a price increase at launch is not realistic...

 

I wasn't really interested in the exact numbers.  The point I'm making is that there is a lot more there which you get for your money than DU has.  And there's a lot of loyalty so eve players are more tolerant of this sort of price hike.

 

That having been said, most of the people I played with when I was playing quit as a result of eve's previous price hike.  I also know people who quit because of the hike before that.

 

DU really really needs as many players as it can get.  Much more than it needs money (after putting all that effort into cost reduction).  I don't doubt that they will put the prices up, I'm just saying it will be a really really stupid and self defeating thing for them to do.

 

Sadly that is not out of character for them.

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4 minutes ago, Zeddrick said:

That having been said, most of the people I played with when I was playing quit as a result of eve's previous price hike.  I also know people who quit because of the hike before that.

Are you just saying things...

 

There has not been a price increase since 2003... There has been 1 price adjustment in other currencies, and that was one adjustment (and it wasn't that big).... So where do you get 'the one before that' from?

 

Or just just tossing out numbers again that don't mean much, if anything?

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3 hours ago, Cergorach said:

With current inflation in the western world, not expecting a price increase at launch is not realistic...

 

You probably aren't wrong, but IMO $20/month is way too high. 

 

That said....I kind of doubt NQ could keep that many players subscribed even for free 😬 

 

IMO, the majority would churn after <90 days even without a charge.

 

Subscription MMOs are all about being a time sink, and while some people could spend forever crafting ships and constructs, most get bored without more structure and content depth...which DU lacks (to an extreme) compared to other MMOs. 

 

So...doubling the sub price kind of makes sense because they aren't going to win retention with gameplay or updates at their usual cadence. If the vast majority are going to churn anyway, I suppose it's best to collect as much as possible. 

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2 hours ago, Cergorach said:

Are you just saying things...

 

There has not been a price increase since 2003... There has been 1 price adjustment in other currencies, and that was one adjustment (and it wasn't that big).... So where do you get 'the one before that' from?

 

Or just just tossing out numbers again that don't mean much, if anything?

When I first played it was $9.99 / month (or Euros) IIRC.  Then it switched to £s and became £9.99, which was a price rise for us UK people.  Then I think £11.99 was next and that was when people I knew started quitting and citing price, but I wasn't playing much then.  I lost track of how many price bumps there have been since then.  Perhaps I'm confusing £11.99 and $14.99 and think that's a price bump when it's just a different bunch of people in a different discord complaining about the same one?  I had stopped playing by then and was just lurking and chatting in discords ...

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4 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

 

You probably aren't wrong, but IMO $20/month is way too high. 

 

That said....I kind of doubt NQ could keep that many players subscribed even for free 😬 

 

IMO, the majority would churn after <90 days even without a charge.

 

Subscription MMOs are all about being a time sink, and while some people could spend forever crafting ships and constructs, most get bored without more structure and content depth...which DU lacks (to an extreme) compared to other MMOs. 

 

So...doubling the sub price kind of makes sense because they aren't going to win retention with gameplay or updates at their usual cadence. If the vast majority are going to churn anyway, I suppose it's best to collect as much as possible. 

This is the mistake a lot of people make about MMOs.  Even if other people don't pay or add anything specific to the game their just being there creates a world for me to play in.  When I'm paying a sub I'm paying to play with a lot of other people.  Otherwise I could just play X4 or space engineers or whatever with no sub.

Those people who don't create ship designs (or whatever) are the *audience* for the ones that do.  They're paying to make stuff and, for a lot of them, they're doing so either to sell it to other players or just so other players can look at it.  Scare away those other players with a price hike and you start to undermine the reason why the builders want to play while at the same time hiking their sub fee.

 

Really I think it's about the numbers at this point.  More players makes a better game.  And that will attract more players.  Once it gets past that critical mass where there are a lot of players and the game works well, feels busy and has a functional economy that's the time to start hiking the price IMO.

The one good thing which should come out of spending all that dev time reducing the server-side costs instead of adding features is lower sub prices after all?  Why else would you prioritise cost if not to keep the cost down?

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22 hours ago, Evoson said:

Most people know there will be a much needed wipe before release and DACs released . I have been playing since about 4 months after beta start . Shortly after I started playing I heard they were going to do DACs I was kind of put off by it because it is like pay to win kind of deal . I have seen this kind of system ruin some games before you will have people buy their way to progress then it ruins the economy markets kind of like people that got lots of beta accounts or subbed 10 or more accounts to exploit mission system . I do not do that I feel its more  of accomplishment to have one or two accounts and not game the system to further wealth in game ; I only have one DU account .  I know one person in real life that would buy $300 dollars worth  of DACs in month just to say oh look at me look how far I got just to show off ; then they would not have money for real life bills or stuff for their kids . I know it will be a money maker for DU but I do not agree with its use and I quit other games  for its use because it is pay to win kind of deal , then people bragging oh I got this or that it is like oh please you basically bought that with real money in a sense using DACs . So in summary I do not like the DACs system it is pay to win but maybe if they limited it to like you can buy 3 DACs per month to sell it would be better than unlimited and  I have quit some games because of them .

 

Also here come gold sellers and account sellers which is against TOS . Oh great this crap again in another game .

Help me understand how you win.

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32 minutes ago, Doombad said:

Help me understand how you win.


Fly biggest space peener, and attract e-girls if the game had any that weren't guys behind the female avatar... 🤣

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1 hour ago, Doombad said:

Help me understand how you win.

Think about it unless you gather all things needed and build without buying or selling off others it will affect you . Also eventually DACs will cause  inflation . Your progress towards the goals you want in game will be affected , your goals is you winning if you just want 2 to 5 tiles and gather all stuff make  all stuff and do not trade with others sure you could build up to what you want and be satisfied but it may take a while . But if you trade with others you will be affected and your goals take longer .

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