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SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION - discussion thread


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6 minutes ago, Stratio5 said:

 

Do you honestly think that's a good idea? That would screw up the economy and wealth even harder than it is now. From day 1 of your plan, the wealthy and established players will make a mad rush to claim everything they currently own and then some. And all the players were were playing casually and all new players are screwed.

 

I know you want to keep what you believe you've worked hard for... but that plan is FAR worse than just not wiping at all.

 

 

planets need a wipe, they are the same fast designed boring ugly planets since alpha, have no charm, no natural formations, no continents, just layers of sand, dirt and rocks everywhere. they are not giving a good image of the game. the only good looking thing is the render from unigine.

as for schematics they obviously don't need a wipe, just a big update

 

lets say full wipe excluding whats in space and on sanctuary then?

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NQ the more you create the more you brake. I started this game (BETA) with group of 5 people (no alts), now I am solo player with piles of ore, ships and other stuff. So I am sitting in this game only because burned thousands of hours and keeping stuff for friends to come back. So if you make any type of wipe - I will quit and I am sure my friends will never come back too. And yes I will come back, but not to play, but to make something bad like block Market, insult NQ stuff and etc. and your BAN will not hurt me at all, because you already punished me.

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9 minutes ago, Kleckius said:

. And yes I will come back, but not to play, but to make something bad like block Market, insult NQ stuff and etc. and your BAN will not hurt me at all, because you already punished me.

People with attitudes like yours are no loss for the game.

Edited by Shredder
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14 minutes ago, Jeronimo said:

 

 

planets need a wipe, they are the same fast designed boring ugly planets since alpha, have no charm, no natural formations, no continents, just layers of sand, dirt and rocks everywhere. they are not giving a good image of the game. the only good looking thing is the render from unigine.

as for schematics they obviously don't need a wipe, just a big update

 

lets say full wipe excluding whats in space and on sanctuary then?

I was at Jago and other updated planets and I haven't seen nothing special that could convince me to agree with Alioth wipe. No animals, no aliens, nothing dynamic. Few better looking trees, few fish sprites it's not worth another wipe.

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I support a full wipe. I'll be sad to see my talents go, but I would prefer to lose them instead of not wiping at all. It would be nice if beta accounts got accelerated talent growth until they hit their previous cap, but not a deal breaker.

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9 minutes ago, Shredder said:

People with attitudes like yours are welcome to leave.

This message is for NQ so get lost and mind your own business.

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15 minutes ago, Kleckius said:

I was at Jago and other updated planets and I haven't seen nothing special that could convince me to agree with Alioth wipe. No animals, no aliens, nothing dynamic. Few better looking trees, few fish sprites it's not worth another wipe.

the changes that took place on Jago and Teoma were only asset updates and some very minor surface terrain changes. the revamp that NQ is talking about is a full revamp, with totally new terrain, biomes, continents, etc. you can see some of the stuff they had originally planned (and the tools they have now for generating planets) in this old dev diary

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Although I could live with a partial wipe, I still don't see any reason for a wipe. The pros and cons given sound a bit contrived to me:


New player experience

  • If an MMO needs a wipe to attract new players, where are we a year later? You would need a wipe every year or so. The challenge is to make the game in such a way you can step in at any time
  • I just did the new player experience on the test server, nice improvement. But I do not see how there being some big bases on Alioth or some rich players in space has any effect on the new players when I am setting up my base, start building and exploring. On the contrary: it gives something to explore and can be an inspiration to new builders in what is possible.


Exploits

Ok, so some players got rich using exploits. How does that effect other players?

  • The example I know of is the guy that bought 100 warp beacon schematics for 8mil each and was willing to sell them for 700mil. But my warp beacons (I bought the proper schematic) normally sell within two weeks and with a 1500% (15 times the production cost) margin. So it seems to have no effect at all that I can see. Ok, so they can buy more expensive guns. So what? the advantage of that is not great, and most of these cheaters don't even play anymore.
  • Some other examples: gates have a >100% profit, advanced engines > 100%, rare engines 800%. There is no problem with rich people pushing out regular players. You can buy a Gate XL schematic with half a day of T5 astroid mining with 2 guys, you don't need exploits to be able to make it.
  • If there is a problem with the markets, it is not because of rich players, but a lack of destruction. An element once made stays in the game forever, except in PVP and in players leaving the game. That is not a recipe for a healthy economy but exploits have nothing to do with it.
  • It is rather naive to think there will never be an exploit again: people will find ways to cheat and exploit with every change to the game. Are you going to wipe every time that happens? Just deal with it and undo some transactions or kick some players, like other MMO's do.
  • removing schematics will indeed resolve the market issue: there will be no market. The schematics where introduced exactly for this reason. Of course people will complain about the cost: new players are used to games where you are in the end game in 10 days and they don't want to invest time and effort for a 2 year period to build a factory (like I did). Those are exactly the players NQ should not listen too: they are on to the next game in a month anyway. You need to listen to the players that stick around and are willing to build long-term: those are your money-makers.


Partial wipe complexity
There are many ways to do partial wipes, and clean up the database. Not all of them sound complex to me:

  • You could let players mark up to 10 construct with a flag (like the headquarters) and then wipe the rest and reset the planets: the dynamics for planet reset and construct deletion are already there, and so is a 'tag construct' mechanism, so how is this complex?
  • You could just remove the need for the schematics from the game and - like someone suggested in this forum - set up NPC buy orders for them. That makes refunding people real easy. And you don't need a wipe for that, could be done in a patch.
  • You don't need to split communities if you want to start fresh and keep the current, you could make a gate/portal to a new solar system with its own currency where you can only take blueprints back and forth: that will be a bit more work I imagine, but only if you want new planets. you could also just copy this solar system and rename the current one 'legacy'. 


All-in-all it seems to me that part of the devs in NQ just want a clean database and are looking for arguments to justify a wipe.

 

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4 minutes ago, Squidrew_ said:

the changes that took place on Jago and Teoma were only asset updates and some very minor surface terrain changes. the revamp that NQ is talking about is a full revamp, with totally new terrain, biomes, continents, etc. you can see some of the stuff they had originally planned (and the tools they have now for generating planets) in this old dev diary

What is the added value for us players from this event? I can see your advantage. I don't see any animals, plants that you can integrate as a resource in the game. So possible it is, but don't recognize that NQ would work on it or think about it. Trees grow back after being cut down, you can make wooden boards out of them, then furniture.

Trees can carry seeds that spread themselves by wind and grow new trees, at the same time you can pick up seeds or saplings to plant on your own land. Breeding would be conceivable. A whole game system around the cultivation and breeding of plants to the integration into the professions to produce something.
The same goes for animals, you could catch, tame or breed wild animals, develop skins or tanning materials from them....tent tarps, sails, carpets, collectible figures,....ja - then, if the planets are so full of life that you can really spend a lot of time as a player with that alone, then I would really be willing to also accept a complete wipe and be happy.

BUT NQ doesn't want to go that deep into a role-playing game....the changes so far are minimalistic and don't result in any valuable new game content. Currently I see DualUniverse in the stage of an alpha - they are playing around with basic game mechanics as if they still don't even know how the final product should look like after so many years.

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The only thing that does not have to be removed is the skill points, many people including myself have paid the monthly fee for the sole purpose of raising skill points, without playing the game hoping that the game would offer better feeling to the players, removing these skills would be the equivalent of stealing our money, the only way I would accept this situation is with a new way of earning skills not based on paying a subscription and waiting for time to pass.

 

Regarding the rest of the wipe, I support the proposal, I am aware first-hand of how indecent advantages have been taken from the numerous design flaws in the game, the fault is entirely yours for not taking action on the matter from the beginning and allowing it to go so far corruption, now the game is distorted, the economy is broken, and many people are disillusioned. I hope this wipe not only affects the game, but also the developers' attitude towards even the smallest of exploits.

Edited by Sycopata
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Your delay in letting us know what was probably always going to happen is why the heart has gone out of the game for a lot of us and we need to digest this.  This will be my 3rd/4th but by far the worsed wipe.

 

In this beta we went from "no plans to wipe"to "wipe only if absolutely necessary" to "its something we are always discussing internally and no decision has been agreed" an now a post that obviously leads towards a total wipe!

 

Whilst you were leaving the bad news to the last minute knowing that a wipe was financially your best option, us mere mortals continued building bigger and better, trying not to let your indecision ruin the game.

 

There have been some amazing creations in this game that could be lost and even whilst building those we were constantly adjusting our ships to meet new build criteria. And training up skills so we could keep our cores. You even recently awarded prizes that will now be lost.

 

To cap it all, what about the original kickstarter promises? I wouldn't push for a pet but you stay silent on the rewards we were supposed to get In game. Ultimately I'm extremely disappointed in how we got to this stage.

 

You also have to accept that some long term players with good skills will leave but im sure you'll offset that with new paying players. But for goodness sake make the decision now so we can move on!!!! Don't delay this any more!

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17 hours ago, NQ-Wanderer said:

Hello, Noveans.

 

What are you thoughts regarding our SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION communication? Let us know below!

Its writen like the Wipe is already set in stone and you only want to see for what the players cry the most and let them have it or at least a portion of it like the Talent Points to name one thing.

The Resons i can read there a minior resons some ot the point of non existing importance.

 

Quote

A reset would be an opportunity to remove things that have been deemed very unpopular by the already existing community, such as the schematics. The only way to remove them in a clean way without causing too many disturbances in the economy is clearly when the in-game economy has been just reset.

Please elaborate more of this very unpopular things i know i hate shematics myself but only for the reason that i have to buy a singelk shematic again and again and again if i want to use them in more than one maschine like a civilisation who can build a ARK-SHIP has no copy printer or like in Windows RickClick-Copy..........

 

Quote

Many tests/adjustments during Beta have impacted the in-game economy, leading to have some players getting extremely rich way faster than intended, due to an intensive use of some features in their early stage, such as the mission system (and that's understandable, as the situation is part of a normal process in the development of a game). However, it's also common practice in the game development process to usually have some kind of reset when critical milestones are reached, and resetting the economy to have a healthy start once the game has been stabilized and the game features have become more balanced makes sense.

A Beta is there for Rebalancing and testing, but having unresonabel high rewards for missions we can do again is more like a planing failur of the person who has set the thing up or the one who is responsebil for chekcing that stuff like this isent happening.

 

Quote

As you, our current experienced players, will have quite an advantage compared to the new players on many levels (game knowledge, talent points, wealth, constructs already owned), there's a need to make things a bit more balanced to give a fighting chance to the wave of new players that will join the Community later.

+

We also want to give all the players (new players as much as a big part of the early backers who have waited for the game to be in a fairly polished state) to have the opportunity of the right start.

= These two are literly the same

 

Yea if i start WOW no iam in a Disadvantage too, as a new player i cant expect to have the same stuff/knowleg/assets/talents like a older player , hell  even if we do a complet wipe the Organized Players or Orgas still have a advantage maybe after a wipe more than befor becouse they knew what to do and they only need to do it fast and grab it as the first ones.

If we now start all Againt i dont even dare to think to get a singel good Terretory on Aliot until the Orgas has left for other Planets.

 

Quote

In case of a wipe, finding a way for our veteran players to allow them to keep (or rebuild quickly) their favorite constructs, without creating any loophole for players to bypass the reset (and defeat the purpose of why it’s done).

 

The Only thing i can think of i want to hold on are my Talent points, constructs can be rebuild, lua scripts can be rebuyed (can script need other for it sorry) Blueprints can be reprintet, Qunata can be reearnt.

Maybe a good Terretory tile is a other thing i want to hold on but mostly becouse of the Location or astetic reasons.

 

Quote

Some planets currently do not have the quality and polished state the Novaquark team wants to give them. We also have seen that a part of the Community has the same opinion on the topic, and this is why the dev team has been planning a revamp for the planets which haven’t received one already.

Where is the Problem, do the Revamp, let the Players hold on to teir tiles, maybe give a option of relocation and if its not possibil pack them up and let the players placed them in one go again, the problem i see is more in the Oreheat map becouse if someone hase got his hands on a good Ress tile and now has a pice of junk thats frustrating.

 

 

The Pro & Cons of the Wipes a clearyfied to wishy washy, They need to be explained more and the list of stuff who is listed is far to short to be reasonabel, if its a Techincal Aspect a Wipe migth be understandebil but with the current stuff not really.

 

 

Sorry for my more than terribil english, i try toi get better with time (i hope its not only a dream)

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problem you have: you basically made ppl pay a sub to play beta, so the last thing you should do is remove their skillpoints, the rest is a maybe if you really have too but again, don't touch skillpoints.

 

overall i think if you just do a full wipe it will not only make a lot of your current player base leave but also mouth of word will carry over to new players that you are not reliable in what you say.

 

after all it was said there is no more wipe planned if nothing game breaking happens (which didn't) and even if so it would be very likely only partial so ppl invested a lot more time as they would otherwise - if you now break your word i am quite confident this will not cause big applause among your players. spitting on time invested is always the worst you can do.

 

surely i sounds appealing to wipe in hope to get a massive influx of new players but i doubt this will work this way with a quite niche game that DU is and you should more rely on your veterans to spread the word and take the "release hype" on top. don't make mistakes like many other games did that tried to reach for "the magic new player" that won't come no matter what you change or do and stick to your loyal fan base first or you might lose on both ends.

 

i personally stopped playing when this wipe discussion appeared and didn't log on since...waiting what you decide to see what i will do with it.

Edited by Muhadmananda
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The game will not work in the medium term, if the original problem of lack of demand for resources is not solved, an economy will never work where it is more profitable to sell ore to bots than to produce products, it cannot be that the business of the industry is only in the most advanced technological products.

It is necessary to create a cycle of resource destruction, which cannot be sustained only in PvP, the normal player who does not participate in PvP would have to be a stable consumer of resources, so that there is a demand that sustains the economy, implementation is necessary of fuel or energy expenditure for the operation of the extractors and the industry.

The ships would have to require maintenance of spare parts so as not to lose operational capacities over time in fly, to encourage the consumption of these products, it could be a mechanical simulation of refueling, with a simple status bar that required consumables to fill it.

 

The ship destruction patch in PVE was good, but poorly implemented, instead of parts breaking due to impacts subject to game failures, lag, bugs, lack of skilla etc... the mechanical parts would have to have a maximum number of hours of operation and need to be replaced once that time of use has passed.

I don't think anyone would see a bad thing when a motor lasted 10-20 hours of use and then needed to be replaced.

 

I'm sure that you can find thousands of different ways to solve the same problem, leaving no room for players who don't want any type of penalty and finally have the risk vs reward that this game needs so much.

Edited by Sycopata
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I'd be okay with a wipe of everything, except for talent points. Everything else is easily replacable, but the almost 2 years of getting those extremely slow talent points going, is simply not replacable.

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3 hours ago, Squidrew_ said:

the changes that took place on Jago and Teoma were only asset updates and some very minor surface terrain changes. the revamp that NQ is talking about is a full revamp, with totally new terrain, biomes, continents, etc. you can see some of the stuff they had originally planned (and the tools they have now for generating planets) in this old dev diary

And yet, this still does not need a full wipe to be implemented. Even suggesting a full wipe is nothing but a catch all "crutch" that NQ is leaning on to minimize work and not really have to deal with the fact that they are selling a persistent MMO with subscription.

 

And there is also the small fact that they actually promised to not do a full wipe...

(I will continue posting this quote for as long as NQ keeps ignoring it)

Quote
  • Global wipes and wipes in the future on Dual Universe

The wipe for Beta Launch is intended to be the last global wipe. However, there may still be partial wipes or upgrades in the future, as it will be necessary for various reasons to reset some aspects of the game (planets landscapes upgrades and such) during the Beta phase. For future wipes, as much of your assets as possible will be kept between before and after the wipe, in particular constructs will always be preserved, if necessary with special one-time-use blueprints (“Packaged Blueprints”) that do not require ingredients to be in the inventory. 

 

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Obviously, you have decided to wipe.
This is the right thing to do for the game, you may attract new players and coming back players but for that you have to propose a game with an interesting gameplay which is not the case today.
By doing that, you are turning back against the community that is supporting you since two years, this is very risky.

If you don't want to loose this community, you have to explain us why the gameplay will be more attracting with a wipe.


By the way, we have lost motivation to continue playing knowing that the wipe is coming, so do it quickly now.


 

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19 hours ago, Kurock said:

At beginning of beta it was announced "no more wipes except as required for updates"


That is not what was said and on top of that, across the existence of comments on a further wipe, outside of a single mention in a press release, there is nowhere NQ takes the option of the table, in fact it is put on there quite clearly several times, especially in regard to the need to wipe as ameans to reset the economy.

Furthermore, this post IMO really sets the stage for a partial wipe with the excuse being the removal of schematics, in NQ's warbled sense of "how can we try and get as many  people to come back as possible", they now seem to thin kthat removing schematics will do that. And they probably now see it as "the perfect excuse" to justify what they have decided on all aloing and all they wanted was to find a reason instead of just having a spine and come out with the announcmeent as-is.

 

 

NO WIPE:

They less dedicated will stay, the ones who prefer a wipe will probably just shrug it off

The game will consitue to suffer from exploit fallout, skewed economy and the have and have not status quo will remain.

 

PARTIAL WIPE (Get normal blueprints for constructs, keep the blueprints you have and talentpoints back to pool):

Some will leave, NQ is left with a playerbase which is more dedicated to the game and it's success than before.

IMO this will provide a better foundation for the game long term in many, many ways.

 

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I was dead against a wipe, but now I see some of the benefits, DU needs an influx of new players and it is more appealing, so long as talents and creative voxel data aren't lost with blueprints (even if they aren't magic and require me to get parts back), I think I'm okay with it. 

 

Ultimately we need to know when the wipe is, if it's coming. I currently have no desire to play until I know the decision, why log in and calibrate my mining units if the ore is going to be wiped in 2 months?

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5 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

NO WIPE:

They less dedicated will stay, the ones who prefer a wipe will probably just shrug it off

The game will consitue to suffer from exploit fallout, skewed economy and the have and have not status quo will remain.

There is no such thing as dedicated players left by now, only fanatics..

And in what alternative universe has it ever been ok for a MMO to wipe the game for all players, to fix the exploits misused by a few?

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11 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

There is no such thing as dedicated players left by now, only fanatics..

And in what alternative universe has it ever been ok for a MMO to wipe the game for all players, to fix the exploits misused by a few?

During alpha or beta stages of the game? plenty..
NQ specifically has said several times they may wipe if damage done can't be repaired without a wipe. You can obviously discuss what woudl be that damage but IMO there is plenty going around in game atm to justify a wipe just based on that.

But that will forever be a subjective debate so no real point in arguing it.

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Full wipe is probably the only way I'm coming back, and I was playing EARLY. We've seen too many exploits and unfair advantages gained through them.

 

Full wipe everything. Start it over. This is probably the last chance you're going to get to do so with such big changes coming.

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