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SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION - discussion thread


NQ-Wanderer

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I am in favor of a full wipe, keep talent points and any core blue prints we have in nano pack at time of wipe. maybe a starting quanta based on how many months you have subbed as a fair way to reward players. Don't penalize the players that have paid and played because someone who just started playing thinks it's unfair to them. They could have been playing this whole time just like us. A wipe will allow NQ to do what it needs to do to the game and having to rebuild just offers more fun having to rebuild. Plus we have learned a lot and rebuilding means we can rebuild back better. I just wish NQ would make up it's mind. Just go ahead and rip the bandaid off and let us know. The whole well we haven't decided is getting annoying after all these months. Here is maybe some advice for NQ, Just do what YOU think is best for the game! You guys play the game too, you do what you think is best instead of listening to 1000's of different opinions! Be leaders not followers! Give us atleast an estimated release date, let us know what your goals are! Maybe with getting feedback maybe do surveys instead of listening to feedback posts. No threat of leaving the game here, I love the game and will stay with it whatever happens!

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6 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

Except, that is not correct. NQ has never announced a "final wipe". all they have done is say that unless they _really_ need to, they will not do another full/global wipe like they did before beta.

 

And they said that if another wipe was required, they would do everything they could to preserve player progress.

 

That last part is kind of important.  NQ can obviously do whatever they want, but they said what they said.  You can't rewrite history.

 

But honestly all of that aside, i don't understand the rest of your argument at all.  If you think paying a sub is relevant to the discussion, how exactly do you expect NQ to handle it?

 

Are you suggesting that they wipe Alpha backers' talents, but not wipe anyone's talents who bought a sub after Beta started?

 

Because unless that's your plan.  The entire argument makes no sense.

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22 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

And they said that if another wipe was required, they would do everything they could to preserve player progress.

In relation to another full wipe being needed, yes.

 

This is not the same thing though and you get blueprints and I'd expect get to keep talent points which would really meet the "you get to keep your progress" argument as I see it.

But I get some will see that differently.

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10 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

In relation to another full wipe being needed, yes.

 

This is not the same thing though and you get blueprints and I'd expect get to keep talent points which would really meet the "you get to keep your progress" argument as I see it.

But I get some will see that differently.

Blueprints will be useless because so many changes. And more to come

 

About progress.

Personally I do not count Talent points as a "progress". They are 100% afk game-play.

 

For me progress is what I've done in game by actually playing it.

- got my Alioth tile

- created my base

- created small in-house factory for my orgs needs

- Created Space station and bought space elevator. (Again serving my org)

- Collected all elements and materials to spawn my AG ship from Alpha BP

- Bought several cool ships

-e.t.c

This is progress. This I hate to loose

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

In relation to another full wipe being needed, yes.

 

This is not the same thing though and you get blueprints and I'd expect get to keep talent points which would really meet the "you get to keep your progress" argument as I see it.

But I get some will see that differently.

 

The post you were responding to on the previous page was specifically about talent points.

 

They even went out of their way to clarify that they were fine with any other decisions that NQ might have to make, and were only concerned about talent points.

 

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So....It's been 3 months now. 

 

NQ's CEO had time to post on LinkedIn 16 times since this thread started, mostly about the metaverse and how great user-created content is...and how revolutionary web3 is (lol). 

 

How many times has NQ commented on this topic since it started? Like 2-3 times? 

 

It seems like he's more interested in cultivating his LinkedIn persona and going to "metaverse conferences" then engaging with customers, understanding his own product, or trying to fix NQ's cosmically bad PR (among other things). 

 

I get that he's likely trying to position NQ for sale or another investment round...which again underscores how little the leadership believes in DU working as a product on release. 

 

Some of the claims he's posted are borderline lies...if the leadership is that willing to "stretch" the truth in a public post, why should we trust them with anything...? 

 

NQ likes to complain about not having enough time, but the new CEO has made it clear that there's more than one project going on.

 

Adding everything up, I wouldn't be shocked if DU dev was glacial in part because it only has a skeleton crew working on it, with everyone else working on these other projects that NQ won't discuss. 

 

This all feels disingenuous and scammy...which I guess makes NQ a true "metaverse company" after all. 

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2 hours ago, blundertwink said:

So....It's been 3 months now. 

 

NQ's CEO had time to post on LinkedIn 16 times since this thread started, mostly about the metaverse and how great user-created content is...and how revolutionary web3 is (lol). 

 

How many times has NQ commented on this topic since it started? Like 2-3 times? 

 

It seems like he's more interested in cultivating his LinkedIn persona and going to "metaverse conferences" then engaging with customers, understanding his own product, or trying to fix NQ's cosmically bad PR (among other things). 

 

I get that he's likely trying to position NQ for sale or another investment round...which again underscores how little the leadership believes in DU working as a product on release. 

 

Some of the claims he's posted are borderline lies...if the leadership is that willing to "stretch" the truth in a public post, why should we trust them with anything...? 

 

NQ likes to complain about not having enough time, but the new CEO has made it clear that there's more than one project going on.

 

Adding everything up, I wouldn't be shocked if DU dev was glacial in part because it only has a skeleton crew working on it, with everyone else working on these other projects that NQ won't discuss. 

 

This all feels disingenuous and scammy...which I guess makes NQ a true "metaverse company" after all. 

 

Talking about lies....we all should of known how shady NQ was calling their public release "beta".  Hindsight is 20/20 I guess but the reality is when you look back NQ has always shown their true colors. Nothing but lies and stretching truths as thin as they can. 

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A good few of the backers did ask the tough questions about this back in April 2020 when JC dropped the bomb that NQ was ending closed development at what we all knew was still very much a game in alpha and just stuck a "beta" label on it. 

 

Two years later, the game is still effectively in alpha and NQ is about to call it a release.

 

 

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And this is also part of why I am strongly against any kind of wipe leading to players losing resources.

Not because it is necessarily a bad idea, but because we told them clearly that the game was not ready for any kind of open beta with subscriptions. And yet they went ahead and did exactly that and made promises about player progression being "forever" to try and justify the subscriptions. So NQ made their bed, and now they have to lie in it.

 

And the way 'release' is shaping up is look very much to be a repeat of the same problem as with the 'beta' + subscriptions changeover, where we ALL know the game is not ready and that there will be many game breaking changes coming after 'release'. So if NQ breaks their promises and remove player resources at release, it is almost guaranteed the same will happen again after release also.

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4 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

And this is also part of why I am strongly against any kind of wipe leading to players losing resources.

Not because it is necessarily a bad idea, but because we told them clearly that the game was not ready for any kind of open beta with subscriptions. And yet they went ahead and did exactly that and made promises about player progression being "forever" to try and justify the subscriptions. So NQ made their bed, and now they have to lie in it.

 

And the way 'release' is shaping up is look very much to be a repeat of the same problem as with the 'beta' + subscriptions changeover, where we ALL know the game is not ready and that there will be many game breaking changes coming after 'release'. So if NQ breaks their promises and remove player resources at release, it is almost guaranteed the same will happen again after release also.

 

Exactly, and think about the sheer [filtered]ing hubris of them going live for "beta" 2 years ago. Its not beta then and its still not beta now when you cant figure out to do with FOUNDATION gameplay like industry, or whether or not to wipe.   The only people left are hardcore nerds and people that are suffering from sunken cost fallacy.  The titanic is sinking, get off before there are no more lifeboats left.

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In this case, no news is not good news. 

 

They'll push the schematics change and try to do the wipe just before release.
Then they'll find an explosion of bugs from everything they've touched in the 3 months since this dumb wipe "announcement", which they won't be able to fix in time.

 

That's on top of the bugs that always come with release. 
 

Hard to have any sympathy for this style of software development.

 

Let's make an announcement that ensures no one wants to beta test and drastically alters the economy since no one believes quanta will persist...then proceed to keep changing things up until the moment of release without a drop of feedback considered (including some updates getting pushed straight to live and skipping the PTS). 

 

That's a professional software development lifecycle...right? Good thing they learned from how bad public beta's launch went and are taking steps to make this an even more "dramatic" release, eh? 

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21 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

Good thing they learned from how bad public beta's launch went and are taking steps to make this an even more "dramatic" release, eh? 

 

I remember maybe like 2 months after beta launch.  And someone was like "the performance seems to be getting better".  I said "well id hope so because they lost well over 50% of people from launch.  first week of launch had lots of twitch people and was often around 1500 viewers on peak.  2 months later about 80 was average.  

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1 hour ago, blundertwink said:

In this case, no news is not good news. 

 

They'll push the schematics change and try to do the wipe just before release.
Then they'll find an explosion of bugs from everything they've touched in the 3 months since this dumb wipe "announcement", which they won't be able to fix in time.

 

That's on top of the bugs that always come with release. 
 

Hard to have any sympathy for this style of software development.

 

Let's make an announcement that ensures no one wants to beta test and drastically alters the economy since no one believes quanta will persist...then proceed to keep changing things up until the moment of release without a drop of feedback considered (including some updates getting pushed straight to live and skipping the PTS). 

 

That's a professional software development lifecycle...right? Good thing they learned from how bad public beta's launch went and are taking steps to make this an even more "dramatic" release, eh? 

 

Lets not forgot that the existing code is hardly stable - seems like they are currently requiring "maintenance" several times a week.  Not the stability most would find acceptable for late beta code (yeah, I know it feels like alpha code, with this number of restarts expected for that level of code, but its not what they claim).

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2 hours ago, blundertwink said:

Hard to have any sympathy for this style of software development.

This soooooo much. I am normally the chill dude that tries to be impartial and insert reason and facts into discussions.

But as a professional software developer it makes my blood boil having to watch NQ doing things 'their way'. And the saying "you reap what you sow" is very much deserved in this case.

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16 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

This soooooo much. I am normally the chill dude that tries to be impartial and insert reason and facts into discussions.

But as a professional software developer it makes my blood boil having to watch NQ doing things 'their way'. And the saying "you reap what you sow" is very much deserved in this case.

Exactly!  Just look at Valheim and V Rising.  They are just re-skins of basic crafting/adventure games with their own unique changes.  Those games are huge success stories.  NQ is over here trying to reinvent the wheel at every turn, only to fail and fall back on.. time gating??  I'm baffled, just baffled.  The only way to make sense of any of this, is they are cutting their losses and trying to milk the release for whatever they can recover.

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On 7/21/2022 at 7:43 PM, CptLoRes said:

But as a professional software developer it makes my blood boil having to watch NQ doing things 'their way'. And the saying "you reap what you sow" is very much deserved in this case.

What's stopping you from taking the game idea and implementing it better yourself? If the game were filled with meaningful content, it would definitely be a huge success.

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31 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

What's stopping you from taking the game idea and implementing it better yourself? If the game were filled with meaningful content, it would definitely be a huge success.

 

Ya ok. This makes no sense. Making games are a risk. "Oh just do this and it will be success".  Not how any of it works.  You need funding, and MMOs aren't 1 man projects.  There is nothing saying DU would be a huge success if they had better content. Could the game be profitable and sustainable.  Sure that's realistic.  But it won't guarantee some huge booming success where it makes 10s of millions or more a year in profit not gross. 

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2 hours ago, Zarcata said:

What's stopping you from taking the game idea and implementing it better yourself? If the game were filled with meaningful content, it would definitely be a huge success.

Experience... Game development while interesting, is probably the worst type of job I could imagine from a professional viewpoint. Lousy hours and if you want creative freedom doing indie games there is no job security. Only thing worse would be to slave for a crap company like EA, shudder. And frankly the worst costumers in the world, is probably gamers.. :)

 

Nope, I am happy where I am (industrial automation/robotics) with stability, good hours, salary and professional costumers.

And if I ever was to make a game in my spare time (as any software developer I have plenty of ideas, and there is still some niche possibilities in VR for games possible to make by a small team), it would be on my terms doing something under the radar until it was proper done. Then release on steam and only to do bug fixes as needed.

 

But the thing that makes my blood boil with regards to NQ, is all the things and problems that would have been relatively easy to avoid if they just applied a tiny bit of introspection, listen more and used some established dev processes.

 

And yes, I fully realize that this is armchair develupment and that I don't know what goes on behind closed doors. But after all these years there are patterns that are impossible to ignore. And no matter how you look at it, there is and has always been a big discrepancy between the size of NQ and the rate and quantity of features being put into the game.

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NQ told us that we'd keep our Sanctuary tiles forever.

 

If they wipe Sanctuary, that's a serious promise they'll be breaking.

 

Many of us have consolidated our stuff back to our Sanctuary tiles so that we have something when the game releases.

If NQ take all that away from us then there will be nothing to keep us playing the game so they will get no subs from our accounts.

 

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There is no point in this conversation.  NQ is going to do what they want, when they want, under the delusion that they, and they alone, know what is best for the game.

 

So sit back, wait awhile longer (its been almost 4 years for me), and lets see what happens.

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3 hours ago, Celestis said:

NQ told us that we'd keep our Sanctuary tiles forever

 

There is a difference between gameplay reasons and a server reset/wipe.

 

When a wipe happens, sanctuary will also go. Seeing how NQ just explained why they made haven in the new Q&A (it's a bit of a weak excuse, but anyway), when a wipe happens, Sanctuary will probably go away entirely and may be replaced by a new planet without water like Haven.

 

Just like the "we will not wipe again unless absolutely needed" referred to doing another FULL/GLOBAL wipe, and never implied there would not be a partial wipe like the one we're about to see happen. In fact, I'm pretty sure that was always the plan as there is some good business and marketing reasons to do so for starters.

 

 

All that is entirely separate from any in game conditions where it is and will remain the case that anything you as a character own on your personal tile on a starter planet will never get lost.

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2 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

 

There is a difference between gameplay reasons and a server reset/wipe.

 

When a wipe happens, sanctuary will also go. Seeing how NQ just explained why they made haven in the new Q&A (it's a bit of a weak excuse, but anyway), when a wipe happens, Sanctuary will probably go away entirely and may be replaced by a new planet without water like Haven.

 

Just like the "we will not wipe again unless absolutely needed" referred to doing another FULL/GLOBAL wipe, and never implied there would not be a partial wipe like the one we're about to see happen. In fact, I'm pretty sure that was always the plan as there is some good business and marketing reasons to do so for starters.

 

 

All that is entirely separate from any in game conditions where it is and will remain the case that anything you as a character own on your personal tile on a starter planet will never get lost.

Well, let's assume that Sanctuary will also be completely erased, although a few days ago NQ was still saying that everything is safe there, including ships that are located directly on their own territory. Then the moon Haven would also have to be "punished" with a wipe, although it wouldn't be necessary there because of the planetary structure, but it is necessary because of the fairness of the players? What does NQ want to achieve with the Recruit a Friend programme? Come on, get your friend into the game, pay the subscription and have fun until we delete everything again?

What about space stations then - could they stay because they are not linked to the revision of the planets? Or does everything just have to be taken away? (So everything except skill points? or BPs? or Quanta? or....?)

What exactly is the point of logging into this test version and paying for it?

I am very curious to see what else NQ is working on besides DualUniverse.

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