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Instance Mining


SlaySomething
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Level the playing field whether you are a solo player or part of a large corporation. The current problem with mining, even with the small player base we have now, is that mining areas with higher tier nodes are quickly overrun leaving most others out of being able to set up mining units worth anything of consequence. Though I still enjoy setting up mining units, I miss the old days of digging holes and searching for the nodes. I do understand why they had to get rid of it however. Asteroids! Well, that's cool for the people who are here early after reset but diminishes quickly, especially in safe zones.

 

I propose keeping territory scanners for general area ground content like they are doing right now for the purpose of placing mining units, but add a secondary scanner with a shorter scan duration that is designed to try and find concentrated pockets of minerals. The ability to find mining nodes of tier 1 would be common place, but the higher your scanner skills increases the chances of finding larger nodes. Then for every tier, the chances of finding nodes at all gets harder and harder but the ability to find them and the size of the node would once again be based on your scanning skills. 

 

When nodes are discovered, you can get the option to open an instance, you and your cargo ship enters the instance, and you can mine away. The instance would only be open for a set duration (24 hours?) and once the timer is up, or you leave the instance, it is gone forever. This way there are no permanent holes in the world, the players that invest heavy in scanning skills will have the highest chance of finding valuable ores (as it should be), and mining goes back to being an exploration again.

 

A system would have to be put in place where the possibilities of finding something vary at each territory (just because one person doesn't find the good stuff, doesn't mean someone else with RNG something great at that location) and once and instance is entered and left, that territory will spawn another random chance of regular to valuable ores. 

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This seems like an excellent idea for players that enjoyed mining the old way (I am, admittedly, not one of them). It does however have a few potential issues that should probably be addressed. 

 

1) Moving a dynamic construct in and out of an instanced environment is just asking to blow something up when physics tries to load in before the world is finished loading (as it is prone to occasionally do). The solution I would propose for this would be to require the construct moving in and out of the instance be on a static core instead, with the nodes sizes appropriately increased so as to adequately compensate the miner for the cost and time of temporarily claiming the hex.

2) Moving any construct in and out of an instanced environment is asking for someone to find out the hard way how the game handles something parking itself where something will load back in once the instance closes. To solve this I would propose that the construct be cloned in to the instance instead of moved entirely, with the original remaining where it was in a non-useable state (as though it were tokenized). When the instance is closed the original construct's inventory would be updated to match that of the clone that had been in the instance and the original becomes capable of being interacted with again.

 

3) Some people like to mine cooperatively, as such I would propose that the new scanner element that allows detection of the instanced ore also serve as a method for bringing additional players (with rdms permission) in to the instance when it opens.

 

4) Allowing different players to obtain different results on a single hex in a way that regularly quickly resets itself is just asking for a 200-man org to roll themselves in T5 ore mined repeatedly from only a few hexes. As such I'd propose that any given hex leads to the same instance of that hex for all players. The higher level skills would still allow for the detection of better ores and larger percentages of the ore that are actually there that lower skilled players may not detect, but the total ore available of all types actually present in the instance would be the same for everyone and set when the hex was regularly reset instead of when scanned. Resets would presumably occur on a weekly basis as with asteroids.

 

5) When atmospheric pvp is implemented, anything causes the mining-construct to become pvp-flagged outside the instance should also immediately close the instance, ejecting all players within and appropriately placing ore mined in to the cargo of the mining construct's cargo as was previously suggested. After the pvp flag expires the construct should be able to open the instance again allowing the miners to pick up where they left off.

 

6) The use/operation of elements on the mining-construct that are unrelated to mining within the instance should not be possible while inside the instance in order to limit potential errors that could result (you only need the mining-container platform in the instance, factories, mining units, and things with scripts can stay outside). Likewise, the deployment of new constructs should be prevented within the instance for the same reasons.

 

7) Asteroids were added to be something people can pvp over, however if the same rewards can be reliably found somewhere safe it tends to kill pvp. Because of this, I'd propose that higher-tier ores have an extremely low spawn-rate on planets where atmospheric pvp isn't enabled (well below what they were previously when old-style mining was a thing) so that the potential safe-availability of said high-tier ores does not remove the reason for pvp players to pvp over the high-tier asteroids.

 

I'm sure I'm missing something else, but I can post it later if I think of it. Any thoughts?

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55 minutes ago, Taelessael said:

This seems like an excellent idea for players that enjoyed mining the old way (I am, admittedly, not one of them). It does however have a few potential issues that should probably be addressed. 

 

1) Moving a dynamic construct in and out of an instanced environment is just asking to blow something up when physics tries to load in before the world is finished loading (as it is prone to occasionally do). The solution I would propose for this would be to require the construct moving in and out of the instance be on a static core instead, with the nodes sizes appropriately increased so as to adequately compensate the miner for the cost and time of temporarily claiming the hex.

2) Moving any construct in and out of an instanced environment is asking for someone to find out the hard way how the game handles something parking itself where something will load back in once the instance closes. To solve this I would propose that the construct be cloned in to the instance instead of moved entirely, with the original remaining where it was in a non-useable state (as though it were tokenized). When the instance is closed the original construct's inventory would be updated to match that of the clone that had been in the instance and the original becomes capable of being interacted with again.

 

3) Some people like to mine cooperatively, as such I would propose that the new scanner element that allows detection of the instanced ore also serve as a method for bringing additional players (with rdms permission) in to the instance when it opens.

 

4) Allowing different players to obtain different results on a single hex in a way that regularly quickly resets itself is just asking for a 200-man org to roll themselves in T5 ore mined repeatedly from only a few hexes. As such I'd propose that any given hex leads to the same instance of that hex for all players. The higher level skills would still allow for the detection of better ores and larger percentages of the ore that are actually there that lower skilled players may not detect, but the total ore available of all types actually present in the instance would be the same for everyone and set when the hex was regularly reset instead of when scanned. Resets would presumably occur on a weekly basis as with asteroids.

 

5) When atmospheric pvp is implemented, anything causes the mining-construct to become pvp-flagged outside the instance should also immediately close the instance, ejecting all players within and appropriately placing ore mined in to the cargo of the mining construct's cargo as was previously suggested. After the pvp flag expires the construct should be able to open the instance again allowing the miners to pick up where they left off.

 

6) The use/operation of elements on the mining-construct that are unrelated to mining within the instance should not be possible while inside the instance in order to limit potential errors that could result (you only need the mining-container platform in the instance, factories, mining units, and things with scripts can stay outside). Likewise, the deployment of new constructs should be prevented within the instance for the same reasons.

 

7) Asteroids were added to be something people can pvp over, however if the same rewards can be reliably found somewhere safe it tends to kill pvp. Because of this, I'd propose that higher-tier ores have an extremely low spawn-rate on planets where atmospheric pvp isn't enabled (well below what they were previously when old-style mining was a thing) so that the potential safe-availability of said high-tier ores does not remove the reason for pvp players to pvp over the high-tier asteroids.

 

I'm sure I'm missing something else, but I can post it later if I think of it. Any thoughts?

I'm mostly a solo player, but I'll add my 2 cents where I can. 

 

1) I don't know enough about game mechanics to have an opinion on this, so I'll trust your critique. But in the long run, I would hope the game would be stable enough that this wouldn't be an issue.

 

2) I don't see issue with this

 

3) Cooperative mining. Perhaps a simple "group" system could be the solve for this, like other MMO's, grouping up before heading into an instanced dungeon or raid.

 

4) I can see where having large groups of people scanning the same hex could produce better results, but if the hex is randomized, and perhaps doesn't have any T3 or at all in that particular instance, or just a small quantity that doesn't justify a large group effort, I would think it's a waste of time sending many people to one hex than it is to send a large number of people to several hexes at the same time to maximize the chance of finding the biggest node. There is a chance that one hex might be overlooked by many looking for gold, but the same hex might be mined by someone who is fine with it having a large hematite node for a quick sale to keep up with taxes. But I do agree, there is a chance that if too many hexes get constantly overlooked, over time, there might be a problem where a planet gets flush with hexes that don't contain a high amount of desired ore. There may be the need of "refreshing" hexes by going in, mining a bit, and leaving so it will reset again. There has to be some sacrifice to find the big score.

 

5) I don't know much about the implementation of atmospheric PVP, but it seems to me, it would be better to wait for someone to be flush with ore and leave an instance and have to travel back to safety rather than disrupting an instance and get nothing for your PVP efforts because they haven't even reached a node yet.

 

6) there should be no deployment of any construct inside the instance besides the construct you enter with. If you go in with a medium container, that is what you have. If you go in with 4 large containers, there you go. I agree that you should not be able to set up an operation inside of an instance.

 

7) Asteroids being something people can be able to PVP over is only somewhat true. It was a possible solution to making permanent holes in planets causing rendering problems. Asteroids still provide a larger guarantee to find ore that you are searching for and come with a bigger risk. With DU introducing control over space sectors for resources, there will be plenty to fight over in space. 

 

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7 hours ago, SlaySomething said:

1) I don't know enough about game mechanics to have an opinion on this, so I'll trust your critique. But in the long run, I would hope the game would be stable enough that this wouldn't be an issue.

It tends to be less the fault of game stability and more that of a poor connection causing things to interact while the client is still working out exactly where the planet's voxel is. My apartment is older than I am with equally dated connection hardware, so if I'm on a planet with lots of hills and mountains it can take a minute for it to stop moving the ground up and down trying to figure out where it needs to actually be, and while it is doing this the terrain does not play nice with any dynamics I load the physics in on.

 

7 hours ago, SlaySomething said:

2) I don't see issue with this

Its kind of like how pre-panacea you could land at market 6 and then have someone else's ship load in around you and your construct. It wouldn't be an issue often in the larger scale of things, but it would still be quite annoying to have it destroy or obstruct something.

 

7 hours ago, SlaySomething said:

3) Cooperative mining. Perhaps a simple "group" system could be the solve for this, like other MMO's, grouping up before heading into an instanced dungeon or raid

That would work. just have it detect who is on the platform (and has rdms) when the instance opens to define the group.

 

7 hours ago, SlaySomething said:

4) I can see where having large groups of people scanning the same hex could produce better results, but if the hex is randomized, and perhaps doesn't have any T3 or at all in that particular instance, or just a small quantity that doesn't justify a large group effort, I would think it's a waste of time sending many people to one hex than it is to send a large number of people to several hexes at the same time to maximize the chance of finding the biggest node. There is a chance that one hex might be overlooked by many looking for gold, but the same hex might be mined by someone who is fine with it having a large hematite node for a quick sale to keep up with taxes. But I do agree, there is a chance that if too many hexes get constantly overlooked, over time, there might be a problem where a planet gets flush with hexes that don't contain a high amount of desired ore. There may be the need of "refreshing" hexes by going in, mining a bit, and leaving so it will reset again. There has to be some sacrifice to find the big score.

It wasn't so much that hexes get overlooked (though that is also a good point) as it was my interpreting your reference to one person having better RNG to mean that one person would scan and find only hema while his buddy could scan and find only gold, as by that logic you could get 200 guys to scan one hex to produce 200 "rolls of the dice" until they got something good. If the hex has the same stuff for everyone and the skills are just dictating what they are detecting out of that then the only issue would be the need to regularly re-cycle the hexes the same way asteroids are re-cycled.

 

7 hours ago, SlaySomething said:

5) I don't know much about the implementation of atmospheric PVP, but it seems to me, it would be better to wait for someone to be flush with ore and leave an instance and have to travel back to safety rather than disrupting an instance and get nothing for your PVP efforts because they haven't even reached a node yet.

It would be better loot, but not everyone will be willing or able to wait for things to produce ideal loot. 

 

7 hours ago, SlaySomething said:

7) Asteroids being something people can be able to PVP over is only somewhat true. It was a possible solution to making permanent holes in planets causing rendering problems. Asteroids still provide a larger guarantee to find ore that you are searching for and come with a bigger risk. With DU introducing control over space sectors for resources, there will be plenty to fight over in space. 

It is a balancing act. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to find high-tier ore in a hex, just that it can't be like it was where I could bring 19 scanners to throw out on a planet and reliably hit t5 nodes nearly as quick as people hit asteroids.

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  • 2 weeks later...

MU's are bringing more ore into the game then mining supernodes ever could. Couple that with supplementing ore with asteroids. And even more is coming in. Just have to look at the ore prices to see this.  I have MUed more T4 then I ever scanned, let alone mined. I had thousands of scans.  same goes for T3, and soon T2, If I give the amount of time to MU's that I gave to grounding mining and T1 will be the same.  

 

The only real difference now is I dont have the ability to go out and bang several supernodes in a week for huge short term influxes.   Although I do wonder if these new Alien platforms are going to be the new way to bring in large quantities short term.

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