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Thanks for stealing all i had


BertBerto

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I wasnt to loggon for a coouple of weeks, and today when i do my ship has been Claimed, and i cant claim it back.

WTF ? ?

It was at an NPC port, but still some toxic [filtered] took it, so it doesnt have to work abit harder.

 

You players that play like this are toxic creatures.

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35 minutes ago, BertBerto said:

I wasnt to loggon for a coouple of weeks, and today when i do my ship has been Claimed, and i cant claim it back.

WTF ? ?

It was at an NPC port, but still some toxic [filtered] took it, so it doesnt have to work abit harder.

 

You players that play like this are toxic creatures.

I must admit not feeling sry for you. It is not a surprise that this feature was build in, announced and planned weeks ago. Another point ...... this decade (IAR) feature only applies currently on the Aphelia tiles. So I am happy that your trash has being removed, you should not have parked it there for such a long time annoying and hindering other players.

 

Overal you could argue on the way this IAR has being executed, overall I am happy with the end result, less vehicles blocking the Market parking.

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@BertBerto

 

There is no "NPC ports" in Dual Universe. 
 

It has been clearly stated for quiet some time that your personal stuff will only ever be safe on your single Sanctuary territory

That ships left at markets would in one way or another be lost has also been on the table for a long time now.

With the Demeter update, the emails sent out, the devblogs and the discussion here _clearly_ informed that any ships left at arkets woudl be open to be taken by other players after 7 days.

 

I get the frustration and I can also see the argument that what NQ decided to do here is probably one of the worst options they have but also the least effort for them.

 

In the end though, if you choose to take a break and ignore any updates or news coming from NQ, than that is really you choice and you just experienced the consequences of doing so.

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22 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

In the end though, if you choose to take a break and ignore any updates or news coming from NQ, than that is really you choice and you just experienced the consequences of doing so.

 

Maybe that's true, but he isn't the first and won't be the last player to have this issue.

 

There's already a lot going on in DU that doesn't have clear enough in-game feedback.

 

Punishing a player because they "don't care enough to stay informed" is really not a great strategy for an MMO.

 

If a player doesn't understand a rule in your game, it's always your fault as the game designer. Always.

 

It isn't our job to go digging for the rules of the game in emails, blogs or the forum; it is NQ's job to present them in a foolproof way. Among the most basic things every game designer learns is how to use feedback to make your game rules clear. 

 

The way to roll this out correctly is to make sure feedback is surfaced in game (the only medium that you can rely on to communicate critical changes!) and that no action is taken until the user has a chance to login, see it, and react (within reason, e.g. up to 30 days). 

 

Like you said, NQ decided to implement this in a lazy way, as they usually do.

 

My issue is that they aren't using beta as practice for release at all...and that will kill them long-term!

 

If a change like this rolled out at scale, NQ would certainly feel how many players don't read their email or check this forum.

 

So this isn't a big deal in beta...but IMO a paid beta at this stage should be run exactly like a released product, and NQ isn't doing that. Even if they grow the game, their "run-the-game-like-a-closed-alpha" approach won't be good for retention. 

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Even though many of the people here have drunk the NQ kool-aid in regards to these IARs and territory abandonment mechanics, it still doesn’t sit well with me. This is the first game (and MMO) I’ve played that has actively destroyed players’ hard work just for taking a break from the game for awhile (which is normal and should be accounted for and encouraged for players’ mental health). Some of these people spend thousands of hours creating their works, and - I believe rightly so - didn’t expect them to be abandoned and claimable by others. I have taken months or years-long breaks from multiple MMOs and I haven’t had to worry about these types of mechanics. I didn’t keep up with the news or updates on these games either. Yet when I logged back in, all of my stuff was still there. 
 

A better path, in my opinion, would have been to create magic BPs of inactive players’ assets. But for some reason NQ decided to go down a path that has and will discourage previous players from returning which makes absolutely no sense to me and seems to be a lazy approach. 
 

Sure, they need to clean up the game world and cut server/bandwidth costs. But there were better ways to do this. This approach has and will only anger previous players that come back. I would predict that many of these would-be long-term players who decide to come back will immediately quit again after they find that a significant amount of their stuff has been stolen. That’s what I would do if I was in their shoes.

 

So when people come in here and express their anger or frustration about having lost stuff, I believe they are justified. NQ’s game design is an outlier compared to other MMOs. Most people don’t expect this level of punishment for taking a break.

Edited by Sostraphaios
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serves you right for squating the landing pad. Thanks to people like you considerate people have had trouble finding a place to land near market terminals.

It's all water under the brige. You ship along with other 40 (by me personally) or so were scrapped and its parts found a new home with people who know how to park. 

 

It wasn't about quanta, in case you were wondering. I considered it a community service, thanks to which markets aren't laggy and everyone has room enough to land

be it L sized, klingon or even chinese ?

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8 hours ago, Sostraphaios said:

Even though many of the people here have drunk the NQ kool-aid in regards to these IARs and territory abandonment mechanics, it still doesn’t sit well with me.

 

If you want to argue that NQ's "solutions" are driven by financial reasons and ease of implementation and not by gameplay value or building towards a long term strategy then I would not disagree. But it is where they are, there is no budget to actually develop the game, at best they can use what funding they have to maintain what gameplay mechanics they have and hope that come launch at the ene dof  the year they will get enough of a playerbase to start building out the game (again). EVerything they are currently doing is all about staying on budget and wher epossible reduce cost.

I can't really fault them for that as the alternative is fo rthem to not make it to release, but at the same time one must ask what state the game will be in at release if this continuees for much longer.

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I agree with removing the detritus from around the market places.

 

But NQ's approach is once again somewhat disconcerting.

 

Please watch this amusing 50 second scene from Monty Python.

 

 

 

Basically, nothing regarding player constructs has changed for years and years apart from some amusing platform juggling which everyone and their dog told NQ would be pointless... and it was...


And then... boom... 7 day timer literally out of nowhere taking everyone by surprise.

 

 

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NQ has stated several times that there's no dire issue with their finances. They have a large team of devs and non-devs across two offices and they've been paying those bills for almost a decade now, so it isn't like they have mountains of money....but the issues with cost are not "draining" them of money in beta. 

 

They are issues because it prevents them from scaling the game. 

 

So there wasn't some dire, urgent need to slap down this 7 day timer or face the lights shutting off. They should have thought about this a bit more carefully -- not because we betas are so important but (again) because they need to practice running the game at scale and not like it is still a closed alpha. 

 

I don't think they realize how players will react to changes like this at scale...if they think we are complainers, they don't understand how MMOs work at release. 

 

Nothing wrong with the change itself, only with the duration of the timer and the lack of purely in-game feedback vs. a reliance on other mediums that players won't engage with at scale. 

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I think NQ made a mistake in trying to combine the concept of abandonment and salvage, with the need to remove clutter from the markets.

 

Having the Markets uncluttered is great.  I think we can all agree that it's a good thing.

 

Losing your stuff eventually if you aren't playing the game, or paying for it, makes sense.

 

But seven days is just too short.  Every time i park at the market now, it's hard not to think to myself "Gee i hope my PC doesn't crap out right now.  Or i'll have seven days to buy a new one, or i lose my ship."  That's no fun.

 

I've considered setting up a system with someone else, where they have perms on my ships, so if it does happen,  i could at least have them move my ship off the market tile.

 

But that shouldn't be necessary.

 

Clutter at the markets could just be moved, or compacted automatically, with a fee to get them back, or something like that.  The idea is to force players to not leave crap at the markets.  But i think that could be done with in-game disincentives.  Something that hurts, but makes you want to play more, if it happens, not less.

 

A fast and harsh system to get people to stop leaving junk at the markets is exactly what we need.  But abandonment is too harsh.

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18 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

I think NQ made a mistake in trying to combine the concept of abandonment and salvage, with the need to remove clutter from the markets.

 

Having the Markets uncluttered is great.  I think we can all agree that it's a good thing.

 

Losing your stuff eventually if you aren't playing the game, or paying for it, makes sense.

 

But seven days is just too short.  Every time i park at the market now, it's hard not to think to myself "Gee i hope my PC doesn't crap out right now.  Or i'll have seven days to buy a new one, or i lose my ship."  That's no fun.

 

I've considered setting up a system with someone else, where they have perms on my ships, so if it does happen,  i could at least have them move my ship off the market tile.

 

But that shouldn't be necessary.

 

Clutter at the markets could just be moved, or compacted automatically, with a fee to get them back, or something like that.  The idea is to force players to not leave crap at the markets.  But i think that could be done with in-game disincentives.  Something that hurts, but makes you want to play more, if it happens, not less.

 

A fast and harsh system to get people to stop leaving junk at the markets is exactly what we need.  But abandonment is too harsh.

Why would anyone leave a ship for 7 days at the market?
Is it that hard to go to market, buy or sell your stuff and go back ........... even if your PC crashes (which probably is caused by all the clutter on the market by the way )

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On 2/21/2022 at 12:40 PM, BertBerto said:

I wasnt to loggon for a coouple of weeks, and today when i do my ship has been Claimed, and i cant claim it back.

WTF ? ?

It was at an NPC port, but still some toxic [filtered] took it, so it doesnt have to work abit harder.

 

You players that play like this are toxic creatures.

Played the game since early alpha and NEVER left a ship, or anything else at a market, it is rude and inconsiderate to other players, you could argue that it is just as 'toxic' an activity.  Sorry but I am glad NQ have done something about it and I salute the player that took it.

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3 hours ago, Verliezer said:

Why would anyone leave a ship for 7 days at the market?
Is it that hard to go to market, buy or sell your stuff and go back ........... even if your PC crashes (which probably is caused by all the clutter on the market by the way )

 

Honestly? None of your business. People have real life. You can't expect people to keep common spaces clean for the sake of other players -- not with an MMO. 

 

Ever used a public bathroom? It's called "the tragedy of the commons" and most MMO developers know this (very) basic aspect of social dynamics and design accordingly.

 

You don't even need to know the term to know intuitively that the "honor system" and "being courteous" doesn't work at scale...especially in a digital realm for a paid entertainment product...especially when scarcity of parking spots is an NQ-designed issue, not an inevitable facet of the game.

 

It isn't like scarcity of space is a real thing in a digital world -- a billion ships could share the same space so long as they only render locally. People have discussed better options for years vs. abandonment. Years and years and years

 

Basic human nature is that when you are done with a game, you log off. Not all of us have the time to relocate our ship first. Things come up. Real life happens. The schedules people have for playing are no one's business -- they pay for their time just the same and can use it as they want. 

 

This idea that all players must do the chore of moving their ships before they log off just isn't scalable or realistic for any population at scale. 

 

TLDR: This is NQ's fault, not players'. They literally designed this problem, they should solve it in a way that doesn't encourage people to churn simply because they didn't log in for a week.

Edited by blundertwink
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17 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

 

Honestly? None of your business. People have real life. You can't expect people to keep common spaces clean for the sake of other players -- not with an MMO. 

 

Ever used a public bathroom? It's called "the tragedy of the commons" and most MMO developers know this (very) basic aspect of social dynamics and design accordingly.

 

You don't even need to know the term to know intuitively that the "honor system" and "being courteous" doesn't work at scale...especially in a digital realm for a paid entertainment product...especially when scarcity of parking spots is an NQ-designed issue, not an inevitable facet of the game.

 

It isn't like scarcity of space is a real thing in a digital world -- a billion ships could share the same space so long as they only render locally. People have discussed better options for years vs. abandonment. Years and years and years

 

Basic human nature is that when you are done with a game, you log off. Not all of us have the time to relocate our ship first. Things come up. Real life happens. The schedules people have for playing are no one's business -- they pay for their time just the same and can use it as they want. 

 

This idea that all players must do the chore of moving their ships before they log off just isn't scalable or realistic for any population at scale. 

 

TLDR: This is NQ's fault, not players'. They literally designed this problem, they should solve it in a way that doesn't encourage people to churn simply because they didn't log in for a week.

 

You arent your ship, and never should be.  Thats why EvE is successful.  Sometimes i lose 5 or more ships a day when I play.  If you forget your ship and or you are an [filtered] and leave it at a market, you lose it.  So what its one of MANY, if not thousands, you will own over time.  Move on.  

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53 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

You arent your ship, and never should be.  Thats why EvE is successful.  Sometimes i lose 5 or more ships a day when I play.  If you forget your ship and or you are an [filtered] and leave it at a market, you lose it.  So what its one of MANY, if not thousands, you will own over time.  Move on.  

 

In EvE you bought a ship, while in DU you may have spent a lot of time building the ship. See the difference.

It is also the same reason why you can't apply all out PvP to DU, since constructs may represent a lot of time and effort here.

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12 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

 

 

In EvE you bought a ship, while in DU you may have spent a lot of time building the ship. See the difference.

It is also the same reason why you can't apply all out PvP to DU, since constructs may represent a lot of time and effort here.

 

Blue prints. Once its built, you can deploy it instantly.  That then goes back to EvE, dont fly what you cant afford to replace. Pretty simple.  YOU DO NOT REBUILD YOUR SHIP FROM SCRATCH EACH TIME YOU LOSE IT. you either deploy a BP or buy another token or BP from the vendor you got it.  HOW IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND. I swear the IQ on these forums is in the double digits.

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14 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

 

 

 

It is also the same reason why you can't apply all out PvP to DU, since constructs may represent a lot of time and effort here.

 

to reiterate. you absolutely can. Ive lost a ship in pvp, that I personally spent time on making.  I had a new one deployed about 5minutes after.  Thats quicker than any capital ship ive had to replace in EvE.  So infact its easier in DU.  imagine that. 

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4 hours ago, Verliezer said:

Why would anyone leave a ship for 7 days at the market?
Is it that hard to go to market, buy or sell your stuff and go back ........... even if your PC crashes (which probably is caused by all the clutter on the market by the way )

 

I think you're misunderstanding me.  I meant that a component of my PC could fail, causing it to not work anymore.  So i'd need to replace it.  Which could take more than seven days.

 

I don't think i've ever parked a construct at any Market for more than an hour or two.  But if my PC dies during that hour, there's not much i can do about that.

 

The intent is to discourage people who are intentionally leaving constructs at the markets, not to punish people who are unexpectedly not able to login for several days.

 

I like the timeframe.  Something should happen after seven days, that discourages people from intentionally leaving ships at the market.  But after that there should be a way to get your ship back somehow.

 

 

 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

Blue prints. Once its built, you can deploy it instantly.  That then goes back to EvE, dont fly what you cant afford to replace. Pretty simple.  YOU DO NOT REBUILD YOUR SHIP FROM SCRATCH EACH TIME YOU LOSE IT. you either deploy a BP or buy another token or BP from the vendor you got it.  HOW IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND. I swear the IQ on these forums is in the double digits.

What about people who buy ships with a DRM blueprint?  I would expect someone with such a massive IQ to have thought of that.  
 

it’s also possible that someone won’t even be able to acquire a new BP of their ship.  If the person who built it isn’t playing anymore.  Making the ship irreplaceable 

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1 minute ago, Atmosph3rik said:

What about people who buy ships with a DRM blueprint?  I would expect someone with such a massive IQ to have thought of that.  
 

it’s also possible that someone won’t even be able to acquire a new BP of their ship.  If the person who built it isn’t playing anymore.  Making the ship irreplaceable 

 

They buy another blueprint easy.  If that person isnt playing, then dont fly what you cant afford to lose in the pvp zone. 

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9 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

They buy another blueprint easy.  If that person isnt playing, then dont fly what you cant afford to lose in the pvp zone. 

You’re missing the point.  This isn’t Eve, and not every ship in this game is disposable, to the person flying it.  
 

if you don’t want to lose a ship, you definitely shouldn’t be using it to do anything outside the safe zone.  
 

but if you have a ship that you don’t want to lose.  You shouldn’t lose it because you used it to haul ore to the market, in the safe zone, and your PC dies while you’re there.

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