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Developer team reply to Core Slots limitation v2 Community feedback - discussion thread


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Will players be able to donate org slots beyond the orgs current max slots, whatever those might be for the org at that time? That way player are able to grand a slot buffer in case slots are lost. I don't think any org would max out on their slots if they can't have a buffer beyond their max. And if that is possible will that buffer also be possible beyond the max of 1625 slots? And will players that donate the org slots be notified if they go beyond the org max slots?

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Nope, still dont like it, I dont like to be restricted in a former free world.

 

You gave me the chance to save my current 175core spacestation(org 1) and the ship-shop (org 2), but afterwards I cannot expand it.

I also wonder how it is going to affect my current slots. If you save my station and shop, will I stil have 100/100 slots?

 

And yes, under 40 orgs have maybe over 200 cores, but most players have multiple orgs that work as one. I have 1 org that handles the spacestation cores, and another org that handels my ships and the shipshop. So its a bit, you know, not fair to say that there are ONLY 40 orgs that are over the 200 cores. The setup for this game made it so that we had to make 'divisions' for our builds.

 

And the game looks empty already, with just landscapes and few buildings. How are you at NQ going to implement content with these building restrictions?

 

Also Id like to invite a few devs to come to my base and you can takedown my "MEX 5 series Flight" M-core ship. Maybe then you will realise how much time that takes, and you wont just throw a statement out that reads: "just tear down your builds".

 

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24 minutes ago, Sabretooth said:

And yes, under 40 orgs have maybe over 200 cores, but most players have multiple orgs that work as one.

 

Your subjective view is that most players have multiple orgs, how do you know and what defines "most" in this case. I'd expect NQ has a much better view on this annd your opinion or assumption is just that. That said, single players using multiple orgs to gain access of hundreds of cores for themselves is _exactly_ why these changes are coming. This is not a single player game and one player should not use the loophole of nested orgs or even just multiple orgs to be able to use an excessive amount of cores. once implemented you by yourself can have 200 cores.. If you need more you can go and shop around for them.

I think NQ has been very clear on the why, there is no way to justify you by yourself using a multitude of server resources that exceed what you contribute in subscriptions. Others shoudl not have to pay for your desire to do everything yourself and so if you want to persist in doing so, you hav ethe option to pay for multiple accounts and in doing so pay for what you use. I know it may sound harsh and I pretty much expect you do not want to hear it but it's wha they call reality. 

 

And you have a choice to deal with it or not, either way, NQ is right here and is making the correct choices, even when it may upset or even drive away a select few as in the log run, their choice in this will enable a sustainable game.

That NQ was going to address this has been known for a _very_ long time. It's really not new or unexpected at all.

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3 hours ago, Serula said:

Will players be able to donate org slots beyond the orgs current max slots, whatever those might be for the org at that time? That way player are able to grand a slot buffer in case slots are lost. I don't think any org would max out on their slots if they can't have a buffer beyond their max. And if that is possible will that buffer also be possible beyond the max of 1625 slots? And will players that donate the org slots be notified if they go beyond the org max slots?

 

Yes the slots can exceed the capacity limit, in practice an organization can only have 1625 constructs due to the limit. It can however have say 10000 slots, this allows for an organization to have some buffer for gains and loses over time.

 

39 minutes ago, Sabretooth said:

Nope, still dont like it, I dont like to be restricted in a former free world.

 

You gave me the chance to save my current 175core spacestation(org 1) and the ship-shop (org 2), but afterwards I cannot expand it.

I also wonder how it is going to affect my current slots. If you save my station and shop, will I stil have 100/100 slots?

 

And yes, under 40 orgs have maybe over 200 cores, but most players have multiple orgs that work as one. I have 1 org that handles the spacestation cores, and another org that handels my ships and the shipshop. So its a bit, you know, not fair to say that there are ONLY 40 orgs that are over the 200 cores. The setup for this game made it so that we had to make 'divisions' for our builds.

 

And the game looks empty already, with just landscapes and few buildings. How are you at NQ going to implement content with these building restrictions?

 

Also Id like to invite a few devs to come to my base and you can takedown my "MEX 5 series Flight" M-core ship. Maybe then you will realise how much time that takes, and you wont just throw a statement out that reads: "just tear down your builds".

 

 

We are not telling you to tear down your builds, not at all. Quite the opposite, we love seeing players buildings in the game. 

What we are saying is that we need you to find a way to support your builds that exceed what we can grant and support you with as a single contributing member of our community.

 

I wish you all a wonderful weekend, and look forward to reading more feedback on monday.

 

Sincerely,

- Deckard

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Ok here it goes ... I am a little disappointed about this limitation after all , although I dont have any serious issues with core slots.  But on the other hand I think we avoided the worst case scenario which was the first plan proposed by NQ. So I think we are in a better situation than before having less casualties than we could possibly have. =>In a realistic scenario and we can still enjoy the game like before . I think I have to say Thanks NQ from my part.

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This whole communication thing between NQ and the players is still feeling a bit like a novelty, but I like it, very much. We've had more discussion, "negotiation" and back and forth in the last two months than the last two years... I feel that the current limits are workable... Especially with NQ's offer of flexibility wrt community builds. The 3 month grace period is very generous and the 100+100 core limit is (if it doesn't require 40,000,000 XP to train) a very nice amount of cores that should absolutely satisfy 99% of players...


The other 1% should surely be able to squeeze in an extra ALT or two in given a monthly price of $15 or so, which is the cost of a single bowl of ramen and two glasses of saké at any local bar around here.

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37 minutes ago, Deleted said:

The other 1% should surely be able to squeeze in an extra ALT or two in given a monthly price of $15 or so.

 

Not sure what currency that's in, but I'm still paying $7/month US for my accounts.

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On 2/4/2022 at 6:14 PM, blazemonger said:

 

Your subjective view is that most players have multiple orgs, how do you know and what defines "most" in this case. I'd expect NQ has a much better view on this annd your opinion or assumption is just that. That said, single players using multiple orgs to gain access of hundreds of cores for themselves is _exactly_ why these changes are coming. This is not a single player game and one player should not use the loophole of nested orgs or even just multiple orgs to be able to use an excessive amount of cores. once implemented you by yourself can have 200 cores.. If you need more you can go and shop around for them.

I think NQ has been very clear on the why, there is no way to justify you by yourself using a multitude of server resources that exceed what you contribute in subscriptions. Others shoudl not have to pay for your desire to do everything yourself and so if you want to persist in doing so, you hav ethe option to pay for multiple accounts and in doing so pay for what you use. I know it may sound harsh and I pretty much expect you do not want to hear it but it's wha they call reality. 

 

And you have a choice to deal with it or not, either way, NQ is right here and is making the correct choices, even when it may upset or even drive away a select few as in the log run, their choice in this will enable a sustainable game.

That NQ was going to address this has been known for a _very_ long time. It's really not new or unexpected at all.

Omg, you are acting like such a fanboy!! NQ doesn't need your protection, didnt you know that?

 

As for the multiple orgs, its only logical to add another org instead of training lvl 5 when you need more cores quick. And I do not think that I am such a genius that Im the only one who came to that conclusion, 16 months into this game.

I also have 5+ mill talents points still to be used, I think I would be one of the few players who can instantly train the new coming core talent system to its max.

 

Im a proud builder in the form that im proud of ALL my builds of many games. I still have my cities xl maps from 2009! 

So if this game decides to delete my builds, I dont like it and now I moving on to another game. I haven't logged on since this announcement and I have never used a MU (so demeter almost made me quit but I stayed to empty my inventory on builds). And now i cannot continue building.

This, and the (imo) changing community is what has driven me out of this game.

 

And 'a good excuse' doesnt do anything for me. NQ could have said: we lower the max amount of cores because we don't like spaghetti. It would still be the same for me and I would gave the exact same reaction. Ive got into this game because of the things it advertised back in 2020. Not of the things its advertising now. So I move on.

 

Before we had 275 cores times 5 (5 orgs) and 17 of our own which is 1392 cores. Maybe even more with sub-orgs.

NQ wanted to cut it down to 3% of that!! Come on man... If your company asks you if you wanna take a paycut to save the company, you would never expext a 97% paycut. I would quit that job! And so its the same for me in this game.

How can 1 prepare for a 97% cut? 

And so after many protests, tge cut down is 'only' 85%... Which is still a lot for me. 

If you cut anything I really like in life to 15%, then Im not into that no more.

 

I wish others nothing good or bad, just carry on with your lives and Ill carry on with mine.

I am not going to "rearrange my constructs" with other players to save them. That is something I will not do.

 

I took the risk of paying for an unfinished game. NQ took the risk of loosing players. Its just life.

 

Yes you players who stay can all haz my stuff. I hope they will bring much joy to others.

Edited by Sabretooth
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7 minutes ago, Sabretooth said:

Before we had 275 cores times 5 (5 orgs) and 17 of our own which is 1392 cores. Maybe even more with sub-orgs.


A sup-org did not have more coreslots than the main org, as these two shared the core count. I had tried this several times at the time.
What was wrong with the sup-orgs was that you could take an infinite number of tiles cheaply.  

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39 minutes ago, Tional said:

 

Not sure what currency that's in, but I'm still paying $7/month US for my accounts.


Sorry, it's my inner scientist peeking out.... Given is used as a sort of hypothetical indicator.

I think there was talk that the final price would be higher than what it is currently... 

 

However, given the price rises (even) to $15, a heavy user requiring more than 200 cores should be able to afford an alt.

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7 hours ago, Sabretooth said:

So I move on.

 

Obviously.. /s

 

 

7 hours ago, Sabretooth said:

Before we had 275 cores times 5 (5 orgs) and 17 of our own which is 1392 cores. Maybe even more with sub-orgs.

NQ wanted to cut it down to 3% of that!! Come on man... If your company asks you if you wanna take a paycut to save the company, you would never expext a 97% paycut. I would quit that job! And so its the same for me in this game.

 

You clearly refuse to either understand or accept the very real and sensible reaons NQ hasd given for the changes. You also lack the underatanding of the process that goes on during game development where the longterm viability of the game starts coming into focus as release gets closer.

 

That you choose to ignore sensible choices being made and keep shouting REEEEEEEEEEE regardless is your right, but it will not change reality though. If NQ needs to make these changes to be able to accomodat the needed player count and by doing so lose a handful of player who refuse to understand that, gueess what, NQ and the game keep going without those few..

And someone calling me a NQ fanboy.. is well.. interesting :D
 

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50 minutes ago, Deleted said:


Sorry, it's my inner scientist peeking out.... Given is used as a sort of hypothetical indicator.

I think there was talk that the final price would be higher than what it is currently... 

 

However, given the price rises (even) to $15, a heavy user requiring more than 200 cores should be able to afford an alt.


Why do you have to make everything more complicated?
I play a game with an avatar who uses an account. I create various buildings and reach the core limit. Why should I want to get another account and thus a second avatar? It would be easier if I could just book more cores in the shop. I don't need another avatar, just more coreslots.

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Quote

All the restrictive measures already deployed, going to be deployed or activated in the coming months, have been all decided with this main goal in mind.

I hope there are also improvements for:

radar, max speed, pvp, pvp-countermeasures, markt, industry and game performance.

 

But nice work, more please.

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ok, so how many cores does each person have individually without any training?

 

I know it'll be written somewhere but I've read through so much that I'm confused and would just like to know the base levels.

 

I think I've deconstructed enough of my constructs to ignore the game for a few months until NQ stops pulling the rug out from under our feet and I'd like not to lose anything I've built during that time, therefore I just want to check the base numbers please?

 

I'm assuming that there will be talent resets I might not know about and therefore will not be training whilst I'm away from the game.

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On 2/4/2022 at 1:55 AM, Oran_Gootan said:

Nobody asked why you are choosing random construct abandonment, because nobody cares. The only issue is the plainly objective fact that this solution is vastly unacceptable, and you need to find another one. All the narcissistic batshit insane troll logic in the world won't make that fact go away.

If someone doesn't want cores abandoned at random they can easily choose some cores and manually abandon them , right?  You can do it right from the map interface without visiting the cores 5 minutes before the deadline.  Why would it be a problem for orgs which can't be bothered to manage their core count by hand getting hit by random abandonment?

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On 2/4/2022 at 11:03 AM, NQ-Deckard said:

 

Following some research we found that a lot of smaller organizations tend to assign legates quite liberally. We believe that could be in part due to the inability to deploy constructs in name of an organization directly.


Are you sure that isn't just because a lot of players have multiple accounts and made a personal org for them?  By far the easiest way to manage multiple accounts is to make a personal org, put all of your characters in it and make them all legates.  The voting gets annoying but once you get past that you just make all of your constructs owned by the org and all of your characters can access all of your constructs without needing to mess about with RDMS.

Trying to do this without an org gets messy fast because you need to make RDMS policies in *every account* to give rights to all the other accounts, keep that up to date, remember to tag every construct you deploy, etc.  Even within an org the need to tag everything and maintain the character lists in the various RDMS policies (because there aren't any definable 'groups') is far more hassle than just making all of your characters legates.

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Hi!

In connection with the upcoming changes, I would like to be able to unfold a static or space structure from a drawing, and in addition to the boundaries of the object, see the entire mesh of the core in the drawing, the direction of the core at the time the drawing was saved and snapping this guide mesh to the mesh of another structure. What would be the possibility of precise positioning when assembling a structure consisting of several cores.  Then it will be possible not only to disassemble a large structure of several cores, but also to assemble it with precision jewelry.

Edited by reggamm
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  • 4 weeks later...

Madness, those named organizations only have about 26 cores placed all combined, so the largest probably has 15 the smallest about 3. Talents show we can have a lot more but i keep getting these messages, so in the end i can only have about 10 organizational cores while the talent system tells me its a lot more, Just fix this.

Somehow it feels we get fail after fail this year.

So with all in the picture talents loaded having only 3 organizational cores you are over the limit and your going to give them away?

 

Can we conclude that there is something really not going well?

 

In the mess up list on the road to actually build Civilization:

 

1-unrelated bans of critical people

2-allowing hackers and unintended use players to keep stuff

3-schematics

4-deleting the mining

5-A Big no to any organizational ownership

6-taxing territories for server costs

7-unclaiming stuff with no warning

 

 

1387836095_orgnumbercores.thumb.png.b7a31605378a2076aea4c8a0e5be2f1a.png

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@Aaron Cain

I think you are missing a few talents there ..

 

The "Organisation Construct Management " talents train how many slots a legate enables for an org to be filled by players assigning their cores.

  • Without talent 0 slots are enabled
  • Organisation Construct Management - adds for 25 slots per level (total 25-125)
  • Organisation Construct Management Specialization - adds 75 slots per level (total 200-500)
  • Advanced Organisation Construct Management Specialization - adds 225 slots per level (total 725-1625)

So based on your screenshot, this character (if legate for an org) enables 725 slots for players to assigne cores to.

 

 

The "Organization construct Slot Opimization" talents are what determines how many cores a player can assign to an org.

  • Without talent you have 10 cores to assign
  • Organization construct Slot Opimization - adds 3 per level (total 13-25)
  • Advanced Organization construct Slot Opimization - adds 5 per level (total 30-50)
  • Improved Organization construct Slot Opimization - adds 10 per level (total 60-100)

 

So this character can only assign 10 cores as none of the above three talents are trained.

 


See THIS SHEET as well 

Organisation Construct Management

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2 hours ago, HamyMac said:

That sounds alright, but do we have to dismantle all excess Org owned constructs? Or is there another way.. If so, how? 

You can ask for donations, or pay people to rent their slots for a month until you get yours up. People giving your org slots don't need to actually be in your org, and slot assignments can only be changed once every 30 days.

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6 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

Madness, those named organizations only have about 26 cores placed all combined, so the largest probably has 15 the smallest about 3. Talents show we can have a lot more but i keep getting these messages, so in the end i can only have about 10 organizational cores while the talent system tells me its a lot more, Just fix this.

Somehow it feels we get fail after fail this year.

So with all in the picture talents loaded having only 3 organizational cores you are over the limit and your going to give them away?

 

Can we conclude that there is something really not going well?

 

In the mess up list on the road to actually build Civilization:

 

1-unrelated bans of critical people

2-allowing hackers and unintended use players to keep stuff

3-schematics

4-deleting the mining

5-A Big no to any organizational ownership

6-taxing territories for server costs

7-unclaiming stuff with no warning

 

 

1387836095_orgnumbercores.thumb.png.b7a31605378a2076aea4c8a0e5be2f1a.png

This is part of the issue with the new talent tree.... on first glance you'd think THESE are the skills you need. The wording is horrible "+75 Maximum Organization Constructs per level"  you're one of a handful of people I know that has trained these skills expecting they'd get to "use" those cores.

NQ should have just had a single skill tree with orgs having a max of 1625 without a special confusing skill tree for it. Likewise, separating personal cores and org skill trees. The level of un-needed complexity is silly and simply bad game design. One skill tree, cores go into "personal" until assigned to an org- easy peasy and makes too much sense to be implemented.

Instead we got multiple skills trees, with sub-skill trees..... and no in game information about how they interact and work together in any meaningful way.

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@blazemonger

Thank you for the explanation, it still is a very typical solution for a problem that in the end still is not solved and is no issue in the first place, unless server stress is a problem for the average player and not on the balance side of the developer.

 

At least i can now fix the numbers so i can again place 750 cores minimal for my organization, add the same for my 4 alts and then have so many cores placed i cannot do anything with them till sintjuttemes.

 

;)

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/6/2022 at 5:02 PM, Taelessael said:

You can ask for donations, or pay people to rent their slots for a month until you get yours up. People giving your org slots don't need to actually be in your org, and slot assignments can only be changed once every 30 days.

I'm just ogint to wait and see which of my buildings collapse.. 

 

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