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82 rumored asteroids & all of them are outside of the safe zone, This is not a coincidence...


Namcigam

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ofc not, asteroids outside of PVP sone are not worth the risk for anyone not looking to be or get engaged in PVP. The rewards are just not there and the are pretty much a big fat arrow with "pewpew here" written on them, easily and conveniently publically bradcast, first showing someone is there and then just fly straight there..

 

Mining the valuables on a a T5 asteroids takes more time than what it takes for a pirate to trace the route using a DSAT..

 

So they are mostly left alone.

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And you can have T4 on those who are in the safe zone.
And you can always warp completely safely on PvP planets to use Minning Unit without any risk.

Finally NQ said that the asteroids were not intended to bring PvP.

So I wonder if they are going to do something, one day where we can have activities in the PvP area bringing really exclusive content to the latter.

 

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27 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:

And you can have T4 on those who are in the safe zone.
And you can always warp completely safely on PvP planets to use Minning Unit without any risk.

Finally NQ said that the asteroids were not intended to bring PvP.

So I wonder if they are going to do something, one day where we can have activities in the PvP area bringing really exclusive content to the latter.

 

 

problem is, anytime you think about introducing content thats only in the pvp zone, the carebears have a shit fit.  Thats why so many safe zone asteroids were created, because a large majority of carebears think they are entitled to 100% of the content without putting themselves in pvp possible situations.  And a big reason why this game will never take off.  Its like NQ is developing 2 games beside eachother, not knowing or willing to find ways to actually merge them.  Shame really.  1.5 years later and we still dont have a "pvp" planet.  Without being able to influence someone elses gameplay, for better or worse, you will never have that "emergent gameplay" and other buzzwords NQ uses to try to describe DU.

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1 hour ago, Knight-Sevy said:

And you can have T4 on those who are in the safe zone.
And you can always warp completely safely on PvP planets to use Minning Unit without any risk.

Finally NQ said that the asteroids were not intended to bring PvP.

So I wonder if they are going to do something, one day where we can have activities in the PvP area bringing really exclusive content to the latter.

 

In my pov warp cells are unicorns like warp beacons I hear rumors of such things but for me they are myths. If I bought warp cells I would have no profits. Making warp cells is above my paygrade. 

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2 minutes ago, Namcigam said:

In my pov warp cells are unicorns like warp beacons I hear rumors of such things but for me they are myths. If I bought warp cells I would have no profits. Making warp cells is above my paygrade. 

You should look back at current prices ?

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2 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

problem is, anytime you think about introducing content thats only in the pvp zone, the carebears have a shit fit.  Thats why so many safe zone asteroids were created, because a large majority of carebears think they are entitled to 100% of the content without putting themselves in pvp possible situations.  And a big reason why this game will never take off.  Its like NQ is developing 2 games beside eachother, not knowing or willing to find ways to actually merge them.  Shame really.  1.5 years later and we still dont have a "pvp" planet.  Without being able to influence someone elses gameplay, for better or worse, you will never have that "emergent gameplay" and other buzzwords NQ uses to try to describe DU.

 

Why would you shoot people that have no interest in pvp, sound a bit weak and pathetic, are you projecting your carebearness on to PvE players. there is plenty of room for everyone but perhaps the pvp's are to afraid to actually risk something ?

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14 minutes ago, Kurosawa said:

 

Why would you shoot people that have no interest in pvp, sound a bit weak and pathetic, are you projecting your carebearness on to PvE players. there is plenty of room for everyone but perhaps the pvp's are to afraid to actually risk something ?

 

classic carebear response.  Guess you haven't played EvE have you?  EVERYWHERE is a potential pvp zone/encounter.  The exception is if you are in a 1,0 newbie zone AND your account is less than 30 days.  Other than that, the potential for pvp is everywhere.  

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8 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

Guess you haven't played EvE have you?  EVERYWHERE is a potential pvp zone/encounter.  The exception is if you are in a 1,0 newbie zone AND your account is less than 30 days.  Other than that, the potential for pvp is everywhere.

And how is that relevant for DU?

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29 minutes ago, Kurosawa said:

 

Why would you shoot people that have no interest in pvp, sound a bit weak and pathetic, are you projecting your carebearness on to PvE players. there is plenty of room for everyone but perhaps the pvp's are to afraid to actually risk something ?

 

It's simple, there is nothing in this game worth risking your ship and your cargo over and satellite trajectory & pvp don't mix...it's like pvp ice capades, no counter measures and lil to no chance of escape.. it's an impossible sell in my opinion. 

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6 minutes ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

And how is that relevant for DU?

 

It shows that you can merge game play loops. NQ actively choosing not to for whatever reason.  If you have no meaningful territories/ resources that are exclusive to a pvp zone, then you can't have emergent player driven gameplay.  No wars, no politics,  no alliances.  No player controlled planets, no players trying to create a planetary government (succeeding or failing). Just boring putting voxels together.  And if that is all there is game should be single player.  But hey, don't have to take my word for it, just look around the game and see how bad things are.

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21 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

If you have no meaningful territories/ resources that are exclusive to a pvp zone, then you can't have emergent player driven gameplay.  No wars, no politics,  no alliances.  No player controlled planets, no players trying to create a planetary government (succeeding or failing)

Your problem is, that you are talking about different games. In DU there are no wars, no politics,  no alliances,  no player controlled planet and no players trying to create a planetary government because DU lacks pretty much all required game mechanics. Not even PvP itself is really working. There simply is no gameplay that could be mixed.

 

21 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

Just boring putting voxels together.

That sounds quite egocentric. Boring for you doesn't mean boring for everybody else. The "boring putting voxels together" actually is one of the most important selling points of DU.

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5 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

classic carebear response.  Guess you haven't played EvE have you?  EVERYWHERE is a potential pvp zone/encounter.  The exception is if you are in a 1,0 newbie zone AND your account is less than 30 days.  Other than that, the potential for pvp is everywhere.  

 

Typical ignorant response that is the root cause of why so many who do not look for combat engagements stay far, far away from the chance of encountering one.

 

Someone who does not have the desire to engage in combat is not "a carebear" it is a player who pays the same amount of money to play as you with different preferences and choices. Demeaning and degrading someone else's playstyle really is not helping your argument, in fact, it strengthens the opposite one.

 

The compare with EVE is entirely invalid here as EVE has very intricate and extensive options and choices you can make to mitigate the risk of an encounter to a point where it becomes an acceptable one. I've said this before but my main character in EVE pretty much exclusively lives in Nullsec and Wormholes because that is where his activities are, and he is both smart enough and equipped with the tools needed to survive there, only to get caught if he's being dumb or just plain unlucky. I fly there without weapons and only carry ECM drones as a means of escape if needed. 

 

And yes, you can encounter PVP in Highsec sure, it's mostly opportunistic in origin though and I still question the sanity of those who think hugging a gate with a Tornado for hours on end with a scanner alt hoping to find a ship worth ganking and have a third alt scoop the loot as the Tornado pilot will be dead is "fun".. Same for 10 alts at a lowsec gate with smart bombers hoping to catch that one valuable ship.. That's not PVP, that is bullying. And yes, EVE allows that gameplay so it's there, but for me, these are still the equivalent of RL lowlifes and scum. I despise these kinds of players even when they are generally fairly easy to avoid.

 

 

DU has NONE of these options yet though, if I were to go to an Asteroid outside of the PVP zone, I basically have no way to know whether the asteroids is camped until I am in firing range of the campers, once I get targeted I really have no way to escape. If the asteroid is not camped, as soon as I land, ANYONE with a DSAT knows I (or better someone) did so and can come out to destroy my ship while I am mining. They can have scanned the asteroids down to its location and sit in wait outside of radar range for someone to "discover" it.

 

 I, and I know many others, have no fear of going outside of the safezone, I'd actually prefer to do so but the risk involved is simply not worth it if you are not intent on a combat encounter. And not being in the safezone does not mean you are looking for a fight, that is just a nonsense argument. outside the safezone you CAN encounter a combat situation, and the reward for going into "PVP space" needs to be worth that risk, which it currently simply is not. There is just no reason for me to venture outside of the safezone as there is nothing to gain from it, ther is only risk of loss.

 

But in general, it seems that concept goes straight over the head of a good many "PVP" players, who just write off anyone who thinks different than them as "carebears".

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8 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

problem is, anytime you think about introducing content thats only in the pvp zone, the carebears have a shit fit.  Thats why so many safe zone asteroids were created, because a large majority of carebears think they are entitled to 100% of the content without putting themselves in pvp possible situations.  And a big reason why this game will never take off.  Its like NQ is developing 2 games beside eachother, not knowing or willing to find ways to actually merge them.  Shame really.  1.5 years later and we still dont have a "pvp" planet.  Without being able to influence someone elses gameplay, for better or worse, you will never have that "emergent gameplay" and other buzzwords NQ uses to try to describe DU.

 

“Shitfits” “carebears”

it’s people like this who give PvPers a bad reputation. 
 

“so many safe zone asteroids were created”


/glances at op comment/

 

??

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9 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

Just boring putting voxels together. 

I honestly don't understand why players who could have more fun in Eve are clinging to DualUniverse and hoping it will be an Eve copy. Just go to Eve to do PvP, it currently makes more sense at least.

DualUniverse = voxel building game + other content.
Eve = PvP game + other content

So what should builders go for and what should Pvp players go for?

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3 hours ago, Zarcata said:

I honestly don't understand why players who could have more fun in Eve are clinging to DualUniverse and hoping it will be an Eve copy. Just go to Eve to do PvP, it currently makes more sense at least.

DualUniverse = voxel building game + other content.
Eve = PvP game + other content

So what should builders go for and what should Pvp players go for?

I dont want to play EVE I want to play DU. And I also want to do PvP in DU because I enjoy do PvP in DU much. I say its a good call to reduce T3, T4 and T5 from MU on planets moons and elimintate safe zone roids.

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It would take resources unique to the PvP area.
Non-PvPers can buy it or take the risk of mining.

 

Of course the game has consequent problems.
Lose 30 minutes to 1 hour of play to go to an asteroid and die there because bad luck there is someone on it. This is not a good gameplay loop. The game needs to be faster.

 

Also the balance It's profoundly stupid that in a creative game like Dual Universe you can't do anything with an S ship if an L attacks you.
The L should be slower and able to hit you only with secondary weapons (because no chance of hitting you with its main weapons).
Your S ship should only be able to fall against an M or an S equivalent (see several XS in numerical advantage).

Personally I don't understand why it's not already balanced like that in game.

 

Oh while I'm at it, blow up the cross section too. We are on a game where the voxel and the creation is the central point.

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It's kind of a stupid idea but sometimes I think they should do exactly 1 asteroid in the safezone. It should hold mostly t1, a bit of t2 and trace amounts of t3.... But it would be huge, allmost the size of a moon, so those who do not like the MU basically allways have a place where they can mine by hand, and that place would be kind of lively with ships landing and taking off on a regular basis.

 

As I said it's kind of stupid, but not that much.

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The options in DU to manage pvp risk is really restricted:

  • It's either you go pvp / join organized org
  • Or you don't.

 

Going to an asteroid "solo" is plain stupid.

For "doing pvp" it is totally reasonabale (and part of doing pvp) to come up with new, better, smart (or lame) ways to take out a target with minimized risk. Otherwise one woud be just as stupid (or unprepared) as the non-pvp player going to an asteroid on their own.

 

Forcing players to do something they do not like to access content is bad.

Putting players into a situation where they do something they do like but at the  same time make them piss of another group of players is also bad. 

 

I am certain that pvp'ers would much more like to have really reasonable pvp incentives that would get them to fight other players who DO like pvp, and where being smart about doing pvp is "good tactic" and not lame gameplay mechanics.

 

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The best would be that the PvP areas provide loot to be used for purely PvE item crafting.

 

With an interesting gameplay there will then be an economic circularity.

 

PvP players spend a lot of time in danger zones, massively consume resources from PvE zones.
And they bring back resources that can be used in PvE to improve their stuff.

 

For the PvE side, we have to think about environmental challenges, corrosive gas zone, extreme temperature...

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NQ implementing proper PVE environments outside of the safezone would be great, but will only ever work if they first implement ways for non combatant players to mitigate the risk pf PVP encounters to get the goods from these sites.. Unless that happens whatever NQ does will not work.

 

I know PVP exists, I am not afraid of it and respect its existence. But I am not an idiot and as I have no interest in actually engaging in PVP, as long as the risk is entirely on my end and the effort required for the "PVP player" is minimal at best, I will ignore whatever happens outside Safezones. It's simply not worth it.

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Why not divide the industry sector into PvE and PvP elements? Just as there is equipment for PvE and PvP in many games, this could also be inserted for elements. Those who want to do PvP will then find corresponding PvP rewards there....

Edited by Zarcata
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