NQ-Deckard response to "negotiation" attempts in DUscord

[kulkija]

1 hour ago, Zarcata said:

That's nonsense!
The problem is not players who build too much, but all the beta key players who generate costs but no revenue because there is no paid subscription.

 

Original plan / funding was that beta is not paid at all(no subscriptions needed.) Only kick-starter and other backers would be able to participate. 

So having free beta keys wouldn't make any difference because beta were supposed to be free anyway.

 

Change came when they opened beta for wider player-base but with subscription. Current paid subs are only adding some extra revenue, to investment what has been planned long time ago.

 

When game releases all beta-keys need active time-codes/subs.

 

 

[Atmosph3rik]

37 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

I don't think JC intended to "lie", I think he didn't bother doing any technical diligence and made a lot of incorrect assumptions about technology he most definitely had no experience with. Is that any better? Practically...no. In the end, it's very deceptive, intentionally or not. 

 

I think JC was focused on the How and wasn't really considering what it would look like as a game or a product.

 

When I think back to all those interviews with JC, where he's talking about players building a Death Star, he was always very adamant that it would take many players collaborating to make something that big.  I always assumed he was talking about the time it would take to build, i remember thinking, "Nah i don't care if it takes forever, i'd rather just build it myself".   

 

In terms of core slots, with NQ's current plan, it would still be possible for players to combine cores to build something that large, or larger.  Performance around it would be another issue, but what JC was describing is still possible.  It just requires players to pay for the costs.

 

People can say what they want about JC, but i think it's entirely possible, that if there had been someone in the room from the beginning, with a lot more experience making this kind of game, the result would have been a very different game, or no game at all.

 

Mistakes may have been made, but i think the only way THIS game was going to happen, at this time, was someone like JC getting the ball rolling, not necessarily because it was a good idea, but because it was a cool idea.

 

 

[Knight-Sevy]

It's too easy for everyone to criticize JC now and blame him for all the mistakes.

 

[blazemonger]

In the current plans it takes 17 players to group together to cap at 1625 cores for an org.. I really do not see anything in this plan that is not reasonable or fair.

 

If you plan a big project you have ways to get the cores you need, and if NQ plays this smart they can justifiably capitalize on this as well.

 

[blazemonger]

18 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

People can say what they want about JC, but i think it's entirely possible, that if there had been someone in the room from the beginning, with a lot more experience making this kind of game, the result would have been a very different game, or no game at all.

 

Mistakes may have been made, but i think the only way THIS game was going to happen, at this time, was someone like JC getting the ball rolling, not necessarily because it was a good idea, but because it was a cool idea.

 

Fair enough but at the same time I learnt from a number of different sources, including from inside NQ, that JC was not very willing to consider the cost of his vision and generally pushed that ahead while he inserted the next "cool" idea. And we've seen him wave of concerns by the community in that same vein as well so it's certainly a believable situation for me. His "you do not understand" attitude was real and litterally on display at several times.

I do agree that his vision was a good starting point for the game but him wearing the visionair and CEO cap while he really had no understanding ro knowledge of managing a project like this was not a good plan.. Had he stepped aside for an "actual" CEO much earlier on, things might have been very different. He was never showing willingness to compromise on his vision even when reality really demanded it and as he _was_ CEO and as such the responible person, the string of mistakes leading up to and including the public beta as well as the mess that was exposed after that are what he should be (and eventually was) held accountable for.

[blundertwink]

1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

Fair enough but at the same time I learnt from a number of different sources, including from inside NQ, that JC was not very willing to consider the cost of his vision and generally pushed that ahead while he inserted the next "cool" idea. And we've seen him wave of concerns by the community in that same vein as well so it's certainly a believable situation for me. His "you do not understand" attitude was real and litterally on display at several times.

 

100% -- it's arrogant to the point where it is almost insulting to people that have spent their lives learning the trade.

 

I have nothing against people that make big swings...but you need some understanding of what you're doing. People with "cool" ideas are a dime a dozen, the difficult part is actually executing your idea.

 

If you have no clue how to execute but decide to pitch that idea, get investors, market that idea to consumers, and take their money...? That's not anything visionary or honorable or decent in my mind. 

 

If NQ had someone in the room that knew what they were doing....and if JC actually listened to that person....yes, it would be a very different game. It probably wouldn't have taken 8 years and multiple refactors to core systems to get to a not-even-beta. 

 

The point isn't about blaming JC, it's about understanding that the expectations and design he created are pointless fantasies that simply don't make sense with today's technology. The ideas of what DU "was supposed to be" have to be left behind or at least dragged closer to reality. 

[Namcigam]

3 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

It's too easy for everyone to criticize JC now and blame him for all the mistakes.

 

 

I completely agree with that but it did start going down hill right after schematics 

[blundertwink]

People have been criticizing JC for a very long time (well before he was replaced), it isn't some new thing -- it's clear that some people haven't been able to give up the arbitrary, random ideas he had and expects NQ to somehow unwind years and years and years wasted under the leadership of someone with no experience in the field. 

 

It might not seem productive, but when changes come up that players don't like, remember just how long this project was mismanaged for...that mismanagement will affect NQ for a very long time. 

 

So when people see changes that conflict with the "original vision of the game" it's worth reminding people that this "original vision" wasn't based on reality, it was an expensive "Ready Player One" fantasy created by someone that had never worked in the field at any level. 

[Namcigam]

3 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

People have been criticizing JC for a very long time (well before he was replaced), it isn't some new thing -- it's clear that some people haven't been able to give up the arbitrary, random ideas he had and expects NQ to somehow unwind years and years and years wasted under the leadership of someone with no experience in the field. 

 

It might not seem productive, but when changes come up that players don't like, remember just how long this project was mismanaged for...that mismanagement will affect NQ for a very long time. 

 

So when people see changes that conflict with the "original vision of the game" it's worth reminding people that this "original vision" wasn't based on reality, it was an expensive "Ready Player One" fantasy created by someone that had never worked in the field at any level. 

 

I agree, players seem to over look that this game is in beta which means random changes will come, that's part of the beta process try something see if it works make adjustments as needed that's normal. Dwelling on the past isn't going to solve anything. They need feedback on recent changes and how they effect game play and that's what I've been trying to put out there.  I'm not trying to be hyper critical and if others would do the same the staff would get more relevant input. I mean can you imagine how frustrating it would be to sift through all this to find a few useful bits of information. I know its their job but that doesn't mean we have to make it as frustrating as possible. focus on now and the future and give useful feedback on what's at hand. I think it would be helpful for everyone players and staff. They made a mistake on cost estimations that's unfortunate but everyone and everything is susceptible to "shit happens" Best thing to do is move forward and give meaningful relevant feedback on what they are currently working on. I think the staff has proven they are committed to making this work and they are communicating more than ever before since I've been playing (shortly after Beta) suck it up and give useful input on what they working on that is path forward. 

[CptLoRes]

15 hours ago, blundertwink said:

People have been criticizing JC for a very long time (well before he was replaced), it isn't some new thing -- it's clear that some people haven't been able to give up the arbitrary, random ideas he had and expects NQ to somehow unwind years and years and years wasted under the leadership of someone with no experience in the field. 

 

It might not seem productive, but when changes come up that players don't like, remember just how long this project was mismanaged for...that mismanagement will affect NQ for a very long time. 

 

So when people see changes that conflict with the "original vision of the game" it's worth reminding people that this "original vision" wasn't based on reality, it was an expensive "Ready Player One" fantasy created by someone that had never worked in the field at any level. 

I can agree to most of that. But their latest actions and patches long after JC left, hasn't exactly been well planned and executed either to put it mildly..

[Namcigam]

True, I agree 

[blazemonger]

The notion that it went downhill "after schematics" is really not true. Things started unravelling very quickly shortly after beta started because the server cost went through the roof due to terrible design choices and budgeting both financially and as far as server resources go. And let’s just say that when JC announced the public beta end of April 2020 it raised a good many eyebrows in the backer community, the state of the game at beta would explain why that was.

 

And pretty much everything that happened after beta has been geared towards bringing all this back in line. First a massive database and industry refactor where batches were severely nerfed and then, frankly what I expect to be false pretence, schematics were rushed in to try and reduce industry use further. Cost cutting in staffing in several rounds, including pulling support back to just business hours with skeleton crews outside office hours and weekends. The devblogs from last year April pretty much confirmed all that and from there we've seen a string of cot cutting measures which kind of played into the community tagging the current changes as such as well.

 

Only after Deckard and in part Nyzaltar came out over the past days with some more background it became clear, at least to me, that NQ now seems to have been able to stabilize, although on a very strict and tight budget, and is now able to get back to getting the game ready for launch and while this may be true for taxes and MU introduction, I certainly believe that this is the main driver for the core count changes.

 

The problem for NQ is that they have lost a good 18 months (and nearly a year after JC was removed) with righting the ship and their (what I expect to be) hard deadline for launch end of 2022 has not moved and likely can't. So now they have to rush development to get to a MVP that will allow them to start the game "for real" and in a state where it can have the "released" label.

 

That the new roadmap was pushed out (quelle surprise) and we have yet to hear on the "wipe statement" to me indicates there is too many loose ends NQ needs to at least button down somewhat before they can release that. I'd expect they know internally but may need to push more stuff out beyond release to be able to hit their planned date. I steal think and fear that DU will release "as-is" at a specific date and not when it's ready for a release.

 

But we'll see and I hope the roadmap and wipe statement will not take too long as NQ is quickly running into single digit months to release in my estimation.

[Namcigam]

23 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

The notion that it went downhill "after schematics" is really not true. Things started unravelling very quickly shortly after beta started because the server cost went through the roof due to terrible design choices and budgeting both financially and as far as server resources go. And let’s just say that when JC announced the public beta end of April 2020 it raised a good many eyebrows in the backer community, the state of the game at beta would explain why that was.

 

And pretty much everything that happened after beta has been geared towards bringing all this back in line. First a massive database and industry refactor where batches were severely nerfed and then, frankly what I expect to be false pretence, schematics were rushed in to try and reduce industry use further. Cost cutting in staffing in several rounds, including pulling support back to just business hours with skeleton crews outside office hours and weekends. The devblogs from last year April pretty much confirmed all that and from there we've seen a string of cot cutting measures which kind of played into the community tagging the current changes as such as well.

 

Only after Deckard and in part Nyzaltar came out over the past days with some more background it became clear, at least to me, that NQ now seems to have been able to stabilize, although on a very strict and tight budget, and is now able to get back to getting the game ready for launch and while this may be true for taxes and MU introduction, I certainly believe that this is the main driver for the core count changes.

 

The problem for NQ is that they have lost a good 18 months (and nearly a year after JC was removed) with righting the ship and their (what I expect to be) hard deadline for launch end of 2022 has not moved and likely can't. So now they have to rush development to get to a MVP that will allow them to start the game "for real" and in a state where it can have the "released" label.

 

That the new roadmap was pushed out (quelle surprise) and we have yet to hear on the "wipe statement" to me indicates there is too many loose ends NQ needs to at least button down somewhat before they can release that. I'd expect they know internally but may need to push more stuff out beyond release to be able to hit their planned date. I steal think and fear that DU will release "as-is" at a specific date and not when it's ready for a release.

 

But we'll see and I hope the roadmap and wipe statement will not take too long as NQ is quickly running into single digit months to release in my estimation.

 

Yeah, I understand I can't speak on that I wasn't playing at that time. Just going off of my experiences I don't deny any of your talking points. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Namcigam
typo

[Knight-Sevy]

I think the priority is to make the project viable. Ensure that what a player costs is quantifiable and projectable in the future.

The Beta release must have been a terrible time for the entire NQ team.

I think they are committed to having a viable economic plan with a long term projection of what each player will cost.

 

Personally I will also make this choice. Too bad for the new gameplay mechanics, making the project viable for a future seems to be the first base to get for Dual Universe.

 

After the change in the mining activity, I had told my mates that there will certainly be other obligatory passage on the limitations.
I had thought about the energy system with a maximum item limit on a core unit.
I was wrong, it's already a small reduction in the number of possessable cores.

 

But for me the ship balancing patch has to come before the release.

We have to put an end to ships with 40 engines, 200 brakes and that kind of bullshit.

 

This is certainly one of the last subjects which must have a very harmful impact on the financial balance of the game.

[CptLoRes]

6 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

The Beta release must have been a terrible time for the entire NQ team.

I think they are committed to having a viable economic plan with a long term projection of what each player will cost.

 

Personally I will also make this choice. Too bad for the new gameplay mechanics, making the project viable for a future seems to be the first base to get for Dual Universe.

 

I think we can all agree on this. And I would not want to be in NQ's shoes.

 

But the thing that strikes me the most if I look back to the very first times I players the pre-alpha tests in 2017 and now, is after all this time how little overall change there has been to improving game loops and giving players the ability to make content (since NQ still refuses to make it themself's).

 

And during this time period in 2017-2019 NQ was a company with explosive growth adding many more developers before they imploded late 2019-2020. And yet we never saw any results from all this.

 

And now lately it feels more like the game is moving backwards from a player perspective.

[blundertwink]

2 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

And now lately it feels more like the game is moving backwards from a player perspective.

 

It really does. I think it's good that NQ is improving on communication and very understandable that they need to push toward release after all this time.

 

However, this means a window where feature dev isn't likely -- they'll be more concerned with bug fixes, polish, cost, and new player experience than new features. With how much tech debt they have, they'll need a code freeze months before release. 

 

My fear is that the push to get the game release-ready is moving the game toward an ultimate end. 

 

Let's say NQ spends this year revamping new player experience, fixing bugs, and polishing the UI/UX. The game doesn't gain many (if any) new features. The game launches in its cleanest and most reliable state ever.

 

My guess? NQ will overdo it way too much with their adverts and thus create a really jarring, awful first impression when people try the game as it is. The company running the marketing will only care about conversions, not retention.

 

All the stats will say that things are exploding thanks to aggressive adverts that make the game look fantastic...but then people will churn. Hard. Because the game won't match expectations and players will be reminded of that with each monthly charge. 

 

At this point, NQ enters a race between the expectations of release players and feature development. NQ isn't known for being a fast studio with their development and when they rush, it doesn't go well. This is the sort of race that NQ will always lose. 

 

Even if they implement territory war before release, it'll be a huge gamble to release -- not that NQ has a bunch of alternatives. 

 

TLDR: it feels a like a no-win situation. They can't spend more time finishing the game but I don't think the game as it is will lead to sustainability. I don't envy them at all. Best of luck to you NQ, I think this will be a tough year. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by blundertwink

[VandelayIndustries]

Did JC suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect? He gained a small amount of knowledge regarding video game design and his confidence was sky high? But lacked the experience to actually pull it off. Something to consider.

[Tional]

On 1/30/2022 at 1:12 PM, Shredder said:

I preferred the original core numbers, the success of the game is driven by the ability to invest in new context, so that should be prioritised.

 

Also, 25 large cores is a huge amount of space, bigger than any building game I’ve played before (other games tend to have different types of limitations in place) and would have been fine, if people hadn't been spoilt with near infinite cores. 

 

I suspect if there is a wipe they will drop it further then.

 

25 xs cores count the same. Your argument is invalid.

[Shredder]

1 hour ago, Tional said:

 

25 xs cores count the same. Your argument is invalid.

So…. Switch to large ones? Your counter argument is incredibly dumb 

[Tional]

5 hours ago, Shredder said:

So…. Switch to large ones? Your counter argument is incredibly dumb 

 

Your argument was that 25 large cores was a lot of space.

 

If 10 cores are Medium dynamic ships, and 5 are large space cores, and the other 10 are L static cores on various planets, that's still 25 cores used.

 

If all 25 are used for tiny little Star Wars ships, that's still 25 cores used.

 

So 25 is a trivial number when applied to people actually playing the game.

 

Have a nice day, somewhere else.

[le_souriceau]

13 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

Did JC suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect? He gained a small amount of knowledge regarding video game design and his confidence was sky high? But lacked the experience to actually pull it off. Something to consider.

 

Its actualy interesting question.

 

My personal theory: JC was bit on cutting edge of this "metaverse BS" that flooded gaming scene lately with all kind of con artists. In this sense he was ahead of his time in kinda 50/50 mode -- actually making game, but without any realistic chances achieve most promises.

 

After he was removed, NQ making stready sustainability-salvaging downgrade of initial ambition. On good side its more "working" game. On bad side -- its obviously going futher and futher away, from what KS backers payed for. Or even Beta players joined for.

[CptLoRes]

JC was a dreamer, and that is fine. We need those to push the envelope. But every Steve Jobs also needs a Wozniak to tell them what is possible and not, and make it a reality. And my impression is that there was no such thing at NQ to rein in JC and keep it all feasible.