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DEVBLOG: CONSTRUCTION SLOTS AND STACKED ELEMENTS - discussion thread


NQ-Wanderer

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@NQ Hey, I just thought of something that would be fun. NQ, what if you taxed additional cores weekly like tiles. Same list system. say 100k per xs 200k per S and so on. If the taxes aren't payed, those core are free for PVP anywhere. Blast away boys! Blow them freeloaders off the planet! That is how you limited how many tiles we are using. Why not limit how many cores we are using the same way? And if they're listed and paid/unpaid no random cores disappearing. Risk what you don't pay.

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I've been playing DU for a good long time now and I'm convinced that the developers don't play their own game.  They have accounts, but they have a very different perspective about DU than most of us do.  Announcements like this one make that painfully obvious.  It seems like this core limit announcement is not so much the problem, but a symptom of the bigger problem which is lack of meaningful communication between player and developer.

 

Dual Universe needs to have a player council made up of people from a cross section of play styles - miners - haulers - builders - pvp players - factory owners and so on.  If the community, via a player council, had the opportunity to discuss changes like this with the development team before announcements like this drop, it would at least give them a chance to consider the ramifications of their decisions without immediately pissing everybody off.  We do have this message board, but so much of it is just people complaining.  We need a meaningful dialog between the players and the developers and a player council would do just that.  I've seen it in other games and while it isn't a cure all, it certainly improves communication between us rabble who play and love the game and the rabble up there in that ivory tower who love and develop the game.

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4 minutes ago, StoneSpoons said:

I've been playing DU for a good long time now and I'm convinced that the developers don't play their own game.  They have accounts, but they have a very different perspective about DU than most of us do.  Announcements like this one make that painfully obvious.  It seems like this core limit announcement is not so much the problem, but a symptom of the bigger problem which is lack of meaningful communication between player and developer.

 

Dual Universe needs to have a player council made up of people from a cross section of play styles - miners - haulers - builders - pvp players - factory owners and so on.  If the community, via a player council, had the opportunity to discuss changes like this with the development team before announcements like this drop, it would at least give them a chance to consider the ramifications of their decisions without immediately pissing everybody off.  We do have this message board, but so much of it is just people complaining.  We need a meaningful dialog between the players and the developers and a player council would do just that.  I've seen it in other games and while it isn't a cure all, it certainly improves communication between us rabble who play and love the game and the rabble up there in that ivory tower who love and develop the game.

 

They sort of do, they just don't listen to the players.

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13 minutes ago, Juvenius Drakonius said:

This is a test right? are you guys joking? how far do you have to change the game till its just an other very different game that what it start it?

You mean you did not spot the changes?

When I joined you could make a spaceship, fly to planets, set up out posts, mine, craft, build a city etc etc.

Now they don't want you mining, crafting, setting up out posts, or even flying between planets. Dual Universe has been reduced to MineTax, a thrilling game where you set up a mining unit watch it merrily rotate, walk to the nearest market (well it passes the time between calibrating mu's) to sell the ore to a bot and walk back to watch it spin for another few hours.

 

2nd week in February my subscriptions are due on my 2 accounts and to be honest the game has changed so much, that I am debating whether it is actually worth paying NQ to continue to wreck what used to be fun.  

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6 minutes ago, StoneSpoons said:

I've been playing DU for a good long time now and I'm convinced that the developers don't play their own game.  They have accounts, but they have a very different perspective about DU than most of us do.  Announcements like this one make that painfully obvious.  It seems like this core limit announcement is not so much the problem, but a symptom of the bigger problem which is lack of meaningful communication between player and developer.

 

Dual Universe needs to have a player council made up of people from a cross section of play styles - miners - haulers - builders - pvp players - factory owners and so on.  If the community, via a player council, had the opportunity to discuss changes like this with the development team before announcements like this drop, it would at least give them a chance to consider the ramifications of their decisions without immediately pissing everybody off.  We do have this message board, but so much of it is just people complaining.  We need a meaningful dialog between the players and the developers and a player council would do just that.  I've seen it in other games and while it isn't a cure all, it certainly improves communication between us rabble who play and love the game and the rabble up there in that ivory tower who love and develop the game.

They had that with their alpha testing team. Though we had a CM that literally laughed at and silenced the community, and devs that didn't care to listen to their feedback... They stopped the program altogether. 

What's the point in having one if only to save face and not actually use any of their feedback?

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2 minutes ago, BlindingBright said:

What's the point in having one if only to save face and not actually use any of their feedback?

I'm operating under the assumption that the developers want the game to continue so they can continue to receive paychecks. If that's not the case, there is no point. They may be leashed by corporate masters and have no say in it, in which case we're pretty much done and you're all invited to join my minecraft server. LOL

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Just now, StoneSpoons said:

I'm operating under the assumption that the developers want the game to continue so they can continue to receive paychecks. If that's not the case, there is no point. They may be leashed by corporate masters and have no say in it, in which case we're pretty much done and you're all invited to join my minecraft server. LOL

Can I get the details on that server? ;)

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Suggestion:

A way to quickly disassemble a ship into a container with out removing all the fuel etc first (it just appears in the box as another item) would be a good way to reduce all the ships lying around that are not being used. There could even be a special storage box for this function, a bit like a parcel container, but called a 'hangar' or similar.  You link to it and it allows you to dump a ship and whatever cargo/fuel it has into it. It only works on static constructs so you can't move ships around with it. The storage would automatically make a blueprint of the ship in the state it was stored in. Then if you are linked to a 'hangar' storage box you have the option to deploy the construct and it's contents back to the way they were. I would suggest each box only allows one ship and has to be of corresponding size to the core (S/M/L). I would further suggest that the box is a 'black box' you can only put a ship in or take it out, you can't go taking individual parts etc. out of the box, if you want to do then then disassemble it the conventional way. 

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So I was so exited to play today, peeked at Discord then I came over here.  What are you thinking. Hey here is this amazing vertex editor but you will really not be able to use it.    

 

What is the motivation to play:

- Scanning and hunting the hex and mining. Nope

- PVP for some yes - Way to boring for me so Nope

- Bulding, bigger and more over time.  Use to be.

 

What is left?  Nothing.  It does not take long to use up the proposed new slots combine of personal and org.

 

So I used all my cores under new method pretty quickly. What do I do now? Tear it down and build something else? Answer no. 

 

If you are going to limit cores it has to be at least 100 personal and 100 to donate to org.  Ord grieifing would be a thing even if people were willing to give them to an org.

 

When you release the game what is the appeal to wide open empty planets.  I like going to Utopia to dream big on something I would love to do but realistically could never do now.  Tomorrow - no more Utopia.

 

This has to be another cost saving move. Has to be.  Do the math and up the subscription fee. As long as the increase maintains a very healthy number of cores I would pay it. Be honest are you on life suppport?

 

This, if implemented, will make .23 feel like good times.

 

I am to upset to event hink about playing today.  Instead I am firing up the trainwreck of BF 5. At least I know the crap to expect there.

 

 

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I agree to jump the gun and say your done and leaving is counter intuitive. If you want things to be fixed you have to be part of the solution not jump ship the moment it smells funny. We all have to be willing to lug a few buckets of water off the ship. If every sailor doesn't pitch in the ship will go down and we only have our selves to blame. 

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NQ another idea to limit constructs. Add an effective PVP loop to help remove cores both static and dynamic. Add any other game loop. We have nothing to do but build. At 25 constructs, I've beat the game. Multiple times. There is nothing else to do. The only thing I can think to do is mine asteroids. But why? I already built everything I can. 

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Have to add - I am only going to run into a brick wall so many times no matter how much gold is on the other side ,23, Demeter etc..  I want to see if there is a change in direction but my gaming group that goes back to the launch of Everquest were excited to come back to DU when I told them the vertex editor was coming. If this does not materially change I am going to tell them it will be a giant waste of money and join them in a different game.

 

This is game breaking to me.

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3 minutes ago, Seripis said:

I agree to jump the gun and say your done and leaving is counter intuitive. If you want things to be fixed you have to be part of the solution not jump ship the moment it smells funny. We all have to be willing to lug a few buckets of water off the ship. If every sailor doesn't pitch in the ship will go down and we only have our selves to blame. 

We have been lugging buckets hard since mid 2017, but NQ just keeps making more holes.

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1 minute ago, DJSlicer said:

NQ another idea to limit constructs. Add an effective PVP loop to help remove cores both static and dynamic. Add any other game loop. We have nothing to do but build. At 25 constructs, I've beat the game. Multiple times. There is nothing else to do. The only thing I can think to do is mine asteroids. But why? I already built everything I can. 

Yo can kiss TW goodbye.  THere will be nothing to take.

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2 minutes ago, Hoppop said:

Yo can kiss TW goodbye.  THere will be nothing to take.

Imagine having to make multiple ships/cores to defend your MUs under this model. 
Yeah. Please can we scrap TW. That just isn't viable. 

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7 minutes ago, Seripis said:

I agree to jump the gun and say your done and leaving is counter intuitive. If you want things to be fixed you have to be part of the solution not jump ship the moment it smells funny. We all have to be willing to lug a few buckets of water off the ship. If every sailor doesn't pitch in the ship will go down and we only have our selves to blame. 

pitching in and losing close to 80% of my cores are 2 completely different things.  I'm happy to chip in, happy to go down in constructs (i've limited it since this was first brought up late last year already) but it has to be reasonable and 42 max constructs for one person using all their org constructs in a personal org is unreasonable.

 

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@NQ the idea behind this is solid. I'm sure everyone can understand what trying to be done here. how ever it feels a bit too extreme as well as going too much power to the individual player. this is my first biggest problem with that " update ". being apart of a once popular org with lot of players. your always watching your back for that one bad person to troll you or your group. taking all the power of core limits in an org away from the group or leader of said org is just going to make it is that much easier to troll orgs and take constructs from them.  if a player can give and take your org core from any org at any time once a month. its just going to cause a huge mess and split people up even more then they are all ready. giving org cores to an org needs to be Simi permanent, or permanent. make the player have to ask the org for there core slot back or something. let the legates of the org know before they lose 1 or all 25 core all of a sudden. if those cores are tied up in a building its not easy to get the limit down as if it was tied up in ships. 

Secondly, only allowing a max 25 org cores per person is just too few for those who want to build and design. yes we can all have our 17 personal core or so, but if a lot of people want to have there personal stuff as well as be apart of a few groups. and with mining out post for preanal workings. all those cores will get used up quick. i fell a more realistic number would be to double the org cores a player can give out and that would fix the issue most of have with the number or cores. don't change the limit for orgs "1625". that's a great and high number. lot of room to grow if you can get there or close with out the floor being pulled out from under you.

Finally, if this does go through and im sure it will in some way or another. are you going to help those of us " the design orgs " who are most defiantly going to be way over the core limit and need to pick up lots of core. strip those cores quickly. or are we going to have to have to cry as we rip down, months and or a year or more of work form dozens of people and friends. 

 

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The stacking elements changes seem fair and reasonable. The core number limit I find very Questionable.  Your need cores for mining units, bases, ships of specific roles, etc.  The free creativity is goiing by the wayside.  I get it you must be a super organization to build a space elevater now, have specific role ships, or build something new.  Seems like a dying game with no cycle.  Why not bring in some pvp instead, or npc attacks, folks will naturally not have so much stuff sitting for no reason., repairing /rebuilding will perhaps motivate the market, etc.  I get it servers storing info cost money, aka mining changes, aka restricted numbers of cores.  Of course if you have 5 players i guess you don't need so many servers to store the info for their 125 cores

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100% agree that orgs cannot have infinite number of constructs, but the proposed numbers are not good, 42 max constructs will harm many builders and miners.

 

I propose this:

- Lets maintain the current base construct capacity of 275 for orgs that are not nested under others.

- For orgs that are nested under others, maintain the proposed zero construct limit.
- Reduce the total number of slots that players can assign to orgs to 1350 (1625 minus 275)

- This way, org construct slot cap can be maintained in both cases of single or nested orgs.

- For nested orgs, only the top-most "mother" org will have 275 base construct limit, all child orgs maintain zero base limit, thus depending on player slot assignment.

 

 

Edited by DarkEvader
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So they gave us mining unites that required a core to place, then they limit cores.....  It almost seems like they want people to leave.  We have 400 cores mostly mining units and will lose about half of them.  I was also building a 7 tile city that is now scrapped.  What is the point of playing if all we do is log in, calibrate, fly around asteroids trying to kill miners?

Whoever is making decisions is dumb or just cruel at this point.

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I think you have to reconsider the core count and first test it on pts...

Also larger margins of time for  disassembly cores and maybe a tool for that before such changes . 

We are talking about a different game here . So NO

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