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PvP Ship Design Issue


W1zard

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18 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

Well said.  Looking good but serving no function is what is killing this game.  Its why you see all these empty cities.  Literally no point to them.  Everyone runs their own hexes, their own factories, their own tiles, and their own orgs.   Oh you shaped the front of you ship like a skull?  WOWWWWW.   You are so [filtered]ing amazing.  

 

7 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

People who think they are geniuses because they can fit their gun into the smallest box possible seem like children to me.

This resembles kindergarten motor skills exercises.

I imagine that we can only be proud of what our intellectual allows us.
PvP may be the reflection of one thing: small box => small brain.

 

Neither of these perspectives are interesting or useful...seems like we're being mean for no reason.

 

Yes, people care about aesthetics in a building game. Big surprise. It's up to NQ to add function, not players. The cities are empty because people invested the time to make something interesting despite the lack of function provided by NQ...not simply because players decide to focus on aesthetics over function as if there's oh so much "function" in this game to explore. 

 

PvP is a part of the game. Some people like PvP and there's nothing wrong with that. You aren't smarter if you prefer to do activity A in a video game instead of activity B...you'd think that would be super obvious. 

 

If you don't like how people play the game they paid for...there's this thing called "single player" you should Google...otherwise it really isn't any of your business what people enjoy in their game or why. 

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20 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

 

 

 

Neither of these perspectives are interesting or useful...seems like we're being mean for no reason.

 

Yes, people care about aesthetics in a building game. Big surprise. It's up to NQ to add function, not players. The cities are empty because people invested the time to make something interesting despite the lack of function provided by NQ...not simply because players decide to focus on aesthetics over function as if there's oh so much "function" in this game to explore. 

 

PvP is a part of the game. Some people like PvP and there's nothing wrong with that. You aren't smarter if you prefer to do activity A in a video game instead of activity B...you'd think that would be super obvious. 

 

If you don't like how people play the game they paid for...there's this thing called "single player" you should Google...otherwise it really isn't any of your business what people enjoy in their game or why. 

There are two parts to building: aesthetic design, and engineering. Building is not just about making things look good; the engineering part of this game is sorely lacking, and any attempt to add more engineering is heavily resisted by the crowd who only cares about aesthetic design. The game needs more interesting tradeoffs and systems to design around, like power and heat. No structural integrity or center of thrust based torque are also issues with the lack of challenge in building a ship.

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40 minutes ago, Nayropux said:

There are two parts to building: aesthetic design, and engineering. Building is not just about making things look good; the engineering part of this game is sorely lacking, and any attempt to add more engineering is heavily resisted by the crowd who only cares about aesthetic design. The game needs more interesting tradeoffs and systems to design around, like power and heat. No structural integrity or center of thrust based torque are also issues with the lack of challenge in building a ship.

 

No, it's heavily restricted by NQ, the game's developer. They decide what features to make, not other players. They are the only party that has the power to decide what features to implement. 

 

Players focusing on aesthetics is a symptom of the lack of depth and features in DU today...not the cause of it. 

 

No one is resisting more depth in functionality. Yes, builders want their constructs to look nice (which is hardly easy)...but adding more mechanics doesn't take away from that at all. I've yet to see anyone post about how they don't want mechanics like power management because "they only care about aesthetics" -- if anything, the polar opposite. 

 

That being said...more realism doesn't make a game better. This is meant to be an MMO, and is already too niche to be sustainable. It isn't a single player simulator. It isn't a simulator at all. Things like heat management and SI will likely be too complex in an MMO context (both for performance and for players to actually understand)...and certainly too complex for NQ to develop in a reasonable time frame. 

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In any game where the player gets full design control over the ship, it will tend towards the most effective design for pvp. Since DU has no atmospheric combat there is no need to worry about aerodynamics. Therefore the box becomes the most effective shape. Idk of any change you could make where the most effective design is not voxel box with guns and shields, or a flying pile of elements. 

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15 hours ago, Nayropux said:

There are two parts to building: aesthetic design, and engineering. Building is not just about making things look good; the engineering part of this game is sorely lacking, and any attempt to add more engineering is heavily resisted by the crowd who only cares about aesthetic design. The game needs more interesting tradeoffs and systems to design around, like power and heat. No structural integrity or center of thrust based torque are also issues with the lack of challenge in building a ship.

Heat from engines being linked to radar range would be a nice addition to the game.  We would also need an extended radar range over 2su for that to be become a fun hunting mechanic.  So I mean the hotter you are, the further you are seen, would make for some interesting gameplay!

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Give us:

 

  • Long range radar that is just a ping that way X su. No detailed info other than you could find something that way. Leave the existing radar as our short range option.

 

  • Make speed adjustments per core size. Use cross section as well so there is a good mix of the two allowing builders more options. Maybe as suggested add a cross section floor to this to stop the cheese builds. 

 

  • Bring back more crew based operations. Running around repairing during a fight is rather fun. If possible try to address the floating outside repair man cheese. 



 



 

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  • 2 months later...

I think the speed/mass changes in Athena will have an effect on this.

 

Voxel tanks are going to have a sizeable effect on top speeds for mid sized ships, I think it’s likely we will see some shield only designs again.

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On 4/4/2022 at 3:59 PM, Knight-Sevy said:

Up @NQ

 

You forgot this in your Athena update

 

Look the ship in the first page

Not only did they forgot, they made even worse.
491520236_ScreenShot2022-04-05at2_53_29PM.thumb.png.0bf67c21e2709d1c3fec9c7348606c51.png
This is what I most likely will fly in when Athena is out...

Edited by W1zard
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7 minutes ago, W1zard said:

Not only did they forgot, they made even worse.
491520236_ScreenShot2022-04-05at2_53_29PM.thumb.png.0bf67c21e2709d1c3fec9c7348606c51.png
This is what I most likely will fly in when Athena is out...

But that ship is absolutely amazing so pretty and 100% what DU is all about.  Love it.

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2 hours ago, W1zard said:

Not only did they forgot, they made even worse.
491520236_ScreenShot2022-04-05at2_53_29PM.thumb.png.0bf67c21e2709d1c3fec9c7348606c51.png
This is what I most likely will fly in when Athena is out...


I hope NQ will tweet your lovely ship.
 

Or even that they will integrate it in the background on their next update cover.

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It's almost like the data collected showed that real time voxel destruction isn't a sustainable model that will also scale. Game doesn't work and dies. Voxels shouldn't be a "tank".  Huge missiles ripping through your hull should blow your ship up. Game is also more scalable with shields taking the brunt of the dmg, as it's an easier calculation.  

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On 1/20/2022 at 1:28 PM, W1zard said:

Currently, hit probabilty depends only on a cross-section of targeted ship.

Here are some of my thoughs that can help improve this situation:

Make hit probability based not on a cross-section, but based on:
a) total elements+voxel volume (that will give full freedom on ship design while keeping the smaller-better trend)
b) total ship mass (don't really know how this can make any sense, but that can be pretty balanced i think)
c) heat emission (amount of thrust / gun shots  produced)
d) any other parameter you can think of except cross-section

Let me suggest an alternative.  How about we leave all that as is, because it does add some fun strategy when building a ship, but you are correct, they will be boxy and ugly.  Instead, what if NQ introduces a new class of voxels that don't impact anything (i.e. mass, HP, ccs, cross section) so one can shape their ship anyway they want without penalty, leaving the core mechanics as is.

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58 minutes ago, Caerus said:

Let me suggest an alternative.  How about we leave all that as is, because it does add some fun strategy when building a ship, but you are correct, they will be boxy and ugly.  Instead, what if NQ introduces a new class of voxels that don't impact anything (i.e. mass, HP, ccs, cross section) so one can shape their ship anyway they want without penalty, leaving the core mechanics as is.

 

If force people to put voxels on a certain number will just make a rectangle.  The job of NQ is to make nanos not the "go to" for everything.  

 

Isn't it funny how the builder crowd is always the first to say "this is a sandbox, we build whatever we want" but as soon as a pvper builds something they cry to NQ about it.  Hilarious 😂 

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2 hours ago, CousinSal said:

If force people to put voxels on a certain number will just make a rectangle.

I think you misunderstand. I am suggesting a way for people to make their ships look cool without negatively impacting any of the game mechanics. I would take a cool looking ship over a crappy looking one anyday, most people would as well.

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NQ obviously just don't brainstorm enough.

We already had ugly space PVP cubes and then the core-stress implementation, as I understood it, was a workaround to avoid those obvious ideal non esthetical cubes.

 

.. and now there are the cubes again because of some other rules intended without guessing that this would happen ?

aye, I'm not surprised that this has happened to NQ again  :\

 

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  • 7 months later...

Today I would like to highlight the issue related to section calculations on ships with a highlighting of the various topics that talk about it.
 

The community has been raising this issue for many months or years.
 

Despite the consensus that some things need to be done: Nothing has been done.
 

We have long been in a gloomy silence.
 

I don't mean to insult the NQ devs, I know they work hard.
We have only one culprit on the head within this studio who seems to deliberately block this subject with his only approval and let it be said: he has nothing to do with PvP.
 

We are in a voxel construction game!
 

WE NEED TO USE VOXELS ON OUR SHIPS.
 

Is it that hard to understand ?!

IMG_20221109_225259.png

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