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DEVBLOG: TRA$H TO TREASURE - discussion thread


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20 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

I'm not sure about any of this.

 

The space wrecks seem more of a hazard than an asset for the game, especially in space. Unless these show up on radar regardless of what filters you have set, with the terrible spawnranges the game has, the risk of running into one and wrecking your own ship in the process is real IMO.
 

The whole IAR idea, once more, seems massively over engineerd with timers that really make no sense. It really feels like a mechanic to try and convince someone to not let their subscription expire or lose their stuff first and create "gameplay" second.

 

Then, imagine I have a construct I bought the BP for at 25M .. Now transfer the construct to an alt, let him unsub and l capture the construct as it gets unclaimed. My alt now resubs and I have a free blueprint which basically steals 25M from the original seller of the BP. And yes, this wil be exploited to no end I am certain. Also, I sure hope the blueprints that are put in the unsubbed player's inventory is a regular one, not a magic one as otherwise this is an even better mechanic to exploit and dup entire constructs using Alts.

IMO markets should simply have an impound system.. You leave your construct there for 24 hours and it goes to impount at the ARK ship, where you can recover it for an increaisng fee. After it has been in impound for 4 weeks it gets deleted.


If they are randomly distributed through space I think the chances of hitting them are slim. Also if you hit a construct at 30,000 kph, do you even hit it, or just clip right through it?

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4 minutes ago, Koruzarius said:


If they are randomly distributed through space I think the chances of hitting them are slim. Also if you hit a construct at 30,000 kph, do you even hit it, or just clip right through it?

 

You hit it, it destroys most of your ship, and then you go spinning off in some random direction in a death spiral that's a total nightmare to recover from. 

 

From experience.

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Whilst I think the market changes are good, I think 7 days is a little too short and will catch people with family emergencies, computer problems, unable to start DU because of some wierd problem and waiting on a fix from NQ (e.g. GFN users a few months ago) or whatever.  When I had COVID last year I stopped playing for about 10 days.  My whole family had it at the same time so 'I'd better log into a video game and move my internet spaceship so it doesn't get deleted' would have been pretty far down my priority list.

I think 3 weeks would be a better number and would still result in far fewer constructs at them than there are now.

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1 hour ago, Overstimuloredom said:

BTW, I hope we'll be to read up on timers we might have ticking down, under constructs in the map menu.


Also crank notifications up to 11 for these events.

 

I can see the notifications now:

The construct of org $%$% has been claimed, with the name <not the name>, and will be requisitioned by the new owner in 7 days. Good luck finding it in time!

 

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The article doesn't say whether this applies only to dynamic cores or if it will apply to static and space cores as well?  If it applies to static cores, what is the point of having HQ tiles and if it doesn't what is the point in deleting someone's dynamic cores from their base but leaving the others?

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Quote

 

SPECIAL RULES FOR MARKETS 

A modified version of IAR will be used on Aphelia territories, including all market zones.

Regardless of whether or not the owner is an active subscriber, all constructs on Aphelia territories are subject to IAR. As soon as a player exits their construct in Aphelia territory, a 168-hour (seven-day) abandonment countdown will begin for that construct. This is considerably shorter than the default IAR timer. Once that countdown reaches 0, the construct will lose its ownership. A new countdown timer of 48-hours (two days) before deletion will start ticking.

 

 

So, for mission dropboxes, which are mostly on dynamic cores scattered all over the Aphelia territories...

 

They have no chairs. So you can't get in the chair to reset the timer. Please test this before release, or tell us how it will work for those constructs. 

 

While you're at it, please make mission packages sellable again (after opening). They're huge, and heavy, and people forget about them all the time. Plus pirates want to profit off of their kills, and they're currently just destroying them. Last summer, you could pop the package and sell the contents (at specific markets). Something changed around Demeter timeframe.

 

Thank you

 

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In effect, constructs belonging to unsubscribed users and not on their owners’ sanctuary zones will eventually lose their ownership, putting them in an abandoned state and making them vulnerable to be salvaged by other players.

 

I think you forgot about HQ tiles in this sentence. 

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NQ Could you please clarify what about container constructs on Aphelia tiles? Not near market, but just random Aphelia tile; and what does exactly mean "exits their construct"?

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6 hours ago, NQ-Wanderer said:

Greetings, Noveans!

 

We would like to hear your feedback on our DEVBLOG: TRA$H TO TREASURE.
 

SPECIAL RULES FOR MARKETS 

A modified version of IAR will be used on Aphelia territories, including all market zones.

Regardless of whether or not the owner is an active subscriber, all constructs on Aphelia territories are subject to IAR. As soon as a player exits their construct in Aphelia territory, a 168-hour (seven-day) abandonment countdown will begin for that construct. This is considerably shorter than the default IAR timer. Once that countdown reaches 0, the construct will lose its ownership. A new countdown timer of 48-hours (two days) before deletion will start ticking.

 

In my opinion, it would be better if, for example, active subscribers had an automatic compacting function after 7 days, which stores the ship in a storage facility at the spaceport/market and then rent or a deposit is due.

 

And for this automatic compacting function on the market, the actual limits (container, mass, number of engines, etc.) do not apply, which are otherwise only so that you don't take the fattest parts with you in your pocket.

And the ship can only respawn at this market where it is storaged! 

 

If the subscription expires while the ship is in storage, it could e.g. also be auctioned after a short time later.

 

Edited by Trisbarl
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2 hours ago, Tional said:

So, for mission dropboxes, which are mostly on dynamic cores scattered all over the Aphelia territories...

 

yes, they are gotten rid of as well, it is kind of the point here.

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13 minutes ago, Gottchar said:

yes, they are gotten rid of as well, it is kind of the point here.

Mission runners hit those places more than once a week so it's hard to imagine them going because of this.  They'll probably get bigger and uglier though -- if my construct is temporary and might despawn if I get bored I'm probably going to make it out of a ton of 'container L' to keep the price down and not bother to use voxel.

Mission runners might even start using modular ships where they pick up one container bundle, dock it and drop another as they go around so they'll probably look like they were thrown off the side of a ship rather than being nicely placed under the pads.

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Maybe I missed it, but what about DRM? Will that be released when the construct is abandoned and then claimed by another player?  Should be! You fail to refile your renewal paperwork with the US Patent and Trademark Office you lose your ownership rights.  Shouldn't be different here.

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6 minutes ago, Samoht_Yreva said:

Maybe I missed it, but what about DRM? Will that be released when the construct is abandoned and then claimed by another player?  Should be! You fail to refile your renewal paperwork with the US Patent and Trademark Office you lose your ownership rights.  Shouldn't be different here.

 

Hmmm, respectfully I completely disagree. It's not about punishment, it's about consequences. You leave your ship cluttering up someone else's space, you lose your ship. Done deal.

 

The construct owner is *very often* not the DRM holder. I build all my own ships, but I also sell them. There's dozens of my ships floating around out there that people have paid me millions to be able to fly... Releasing the DRM means that anyone could just copy my design and sell it as their own... Pretty much defeats the purpose of DRM in the first place then if anyone can just take a ship they bought, get it's DRM unlocked and copy it.

 

As I said previously, that is already going to be an issue with this system due to handing out BP's and handing out the ship. Every time a ship expires, its design has been duplicated. That I understand as a natural consequence, it has a large time and risk investment in the method for each individual payout, but just unlocking the DRM opens the door for as many copies as are desired.

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Why would we assume that after somebody lost ownership, and a few days later got their ship deleted, the blueprint will be magical?

They allready lost ownership I don't see the BP to be anything other than a courtesy.

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4 hours ago, Musclethorpe said:

When is this proposed to go live?

No timeframe for the patch yet, but so far NQ is right on cue in their usual cycle towards a major patch so from that I'd expect it 22-24 February.

 

  

10 minutes ago, Overstimuloredom said:

Why would we assume that after somebody lost ownership, and a few days later got their ship deleted, the blueprint will be magical?

They allready lost ownership I don't see the BP to be anything other than a courtesy.

Becasue NQ being NQ I can see them trying to spin this as a "you lost it but you did not really lose anything". I think it is a very valid quation to ask.

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I love the idea of this but I think the timers are a bit harsh. As with taxes it isn't about the design concept it is just about tweaking the numbers.

 

One thing that may help mitigate this is having some sort to of "impound" mechanic. This may be a down the line thing but having an element that allowed you or a service provider to store a ship essentially giving the ability to compactify any dynamic into a specialized element. There would have to be some cost associated with  each compactification and could only be unpacked in range of the impound element. This would avoid world clutter/data cost but also not take away player progress. A player could run this as a parking garage type of service. 

 

I am also so happy about the salvage and shipwrecks coming in! I love that you have to manually go out and find them with a radar. Please though make them somewhat plentiful as the last version of land based shipwrecks were so few and far between it was barely more than a fleeting novelty. We want more ways to play consistently. I would love it if someone could use  salvage and shipwrecks as their core gameplay loop.

 

One thing that may help with this is bringing in the Upvote Website feature of Recyclers being able to recycle elements and honeycomb for pure or parts (only partial values put into making the original item). With this you could also bring back environmental damage to elements taking away element "lives".  I say this as a major issue with the game right now is there are almost no elements being taken out of the game thus no one has the need to buy new things. If you have fully "Broken" items popping up on shipwrecks and on markets then a salvage player (with high recycler talents) could get high yields out of things that normally would just be deleted. This takes resources out of the game slowly but also adds a new way to play outside of mining or manufacturing. 

 

I do not have a full degree in game design so obviously take what I say with a grain of salt. I also really hate to being so prescriptive in this post but at this point I just want to be as direct as possible with feedback. 

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56 minutes ago, DecoyGoatBomb said:

I do not have a full degree in game design so obviously take what I say with a grain of salt. I also really hate to be so prescriptive in this post but at this point I just want to be as direct as possible with feedback. 

 

I highly doubt NQ's lead designers have a degree in game design, either.

 

I'm not just being cheeky, it isn't a very common degree...and sadly some studios don't really understand how important (and difficult) game design can be, and therefore put someone with more of a technical background in charge of design because "they've played video games a lot". 

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On 1/20/2022 at 5:00 PM, Gottchar said:

As soon as a player exits their construct in Aphelia territory, a 168-hour (seven-day) abandonment countdown will begin for that construct. 

Hell yes, thank you, please don’t backtrack on this one, it is the only way to really clean up markets and make them usable for everyone.
 

Maybe make this timer start after people log out and their ship is still in Aphelia, then it starts the timer? Since if you go to the shops in town and leave your car in the car park, you do not really want a count down to destruction while you parking meter is running. But I guess if that is not easy this will do. :)

 

On 1/20/2022 at 7:33 PM, blazemonger said:

I'm not sure about any of this.

 

The space wrecks seem more of a hazard


Also I agree, with the hazard part of the above and space wrecks need to show up a long way off on the radar, or not be possible to crash into unless going below a speed that would allow a 30 seconds to change direction upon detection since turning at max speed is not easy (Or some other mechanic that prevents crashes at high speed). Though this should not be confused with PVP wrecks since they should just be hazards regardless of speed or distance and I believe a good aspect of PVP - though I admit I have yet to try it :D

Edited by ADCOne
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How will we market storage now? Can you guys just make the markets into a single system on each planet please? Example: All the markets on Alioth are Alioth....that will declutter.

 

Let's be honest: only one market exists on Alioth anyway.

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The containers we have within 250m of markets enable group gameplay with others in our Org across timezones - we have ppl delivering stuff from the main factory and the many mining rigs, then a legate VRs in, links to the container and places sell orders or instant sells as appropriate - under the Org account so we can see and manage the orders collectively and transparently. 

 

Purchases in VR under the Org account also are made available to members to transport or use, via the containers. 

 

Currently Missions does not support our use cases - NQ PLEASE NOTE - to make this work for us:

 

1) Haulage to market missions option to deposit in an Org market container, and be billed to an Org. Currently goes into the personal container of the mission giver, so we have to have a storage construct within link range instead, ie. 250m.

 

2) Instant sell from an Org inventory - only possible currently from personal market inventory or a linked container, so a storage construct is required to swap the ownership. 

 

3) Option to move stock between Orgs and personal within the market. Currently have to use a storage construct to do this. 

 

We still have around 100 mining rigs without parcel containers, and XL parcel containers are expensive. If we don't have the construct at the market, we'll have to set up a warehouse near each market and create short-haul missions - adding extra handling and time for the already-busy legates.

 

Edit - added request:

4) Mission limits way more than 3 please! 20 would be more realistic. We went to put parcel containers on mining rigs only to find we can issue just 3 missions each at any one time, so we continue to get hauliers to drop stuff off at the storage constructs at destination markets - because we can't use the Mission system after doing rig no. 3 of a hundred or so.

Edited by Kronius
Added request #4
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1 hour ago, Thunderblaze said:

Let's be honest: only one market exists on Alioth anyway.

 

Well, not if you scroll down. I make a point of supplying the regional markets when I can. Someone, and I think it's one player, keeps filling up the first page with District 6 sell orders priced slightly below the others and tightly spaced, creating the illusion that there is only one active market on Alioth and the illusion of there being competition. I have logged a ticket with some suggestions to remedy such shenanigans, but it won't be easy. 

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I don’t think a

player who has spent months or years gathering supplies should lose everything because they stop playing for a bit it should be packed up and put in a special inventory they can be reclaimed when they start playing again as far as salivate it sounds like a good idea but if I’m required two fly all over looking

i think fuel consumption needs two be reduced fuel use is Riley bad in this game in my opinion 

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