Why PvP cant be balanced!

[Skeletmaster]

Hello guys, before I start a small disclaimer: I know my ideas take a lot of time and effort and would change PvP completely. Some may disagree but I don’t see a different way to balance PvP in the long run.

 

 

But before I lay down some of my Ideas, I should start with the problems I see.

The current Meta is if you have less than 50% hit chance with L weapons you can use M Railguns else use L Weapons. This is boring and does not have any diversity. On top of that everyone’s goal is to make their ships as small as possible.

That is PvP in my opinion right now.

With the next change we may get some diversity into the max speed but that would not change a thing in the end.

1. The max speed is related to the core unit. Then everything will just move down one core size. Hauler will be M (to still use XL engines) and everything will just be around this. So, L cores would probably die or get used as stationary turrets.
2. The max speed is related to the construct mass. Then everything will just stay the same. Maybe we get some more M Cores because they can be lighter than L ships.

Both of those possible changes change something but only what Meta but don’t add any diversity.

And I thing diversity is what everyone wants and maybe some more roles on larger vessels again to add multi crew ships back.

 

 

But how would I tackle this.

First of all, I would add a multiplier or a magnifier to Shields, so that large ships no longer function as targets. Capital Ships or Hauler have such a high cross section that they die before they have any significant impact, while being a couple times more expensive as a smaller ship with the same effectivity.

You could base this multiplier on the construct mass or add a way to add more shield generators for every 5 kt tons or so. So that a large ship with twice the cross section could get twice the amount of health (don’t make this depend on another, it would ruin the challenge for builders). And that haulers are no longer just easy targets but actually could take a punch or two until reinforcements arrive.

 

 

But this would only fix a small problem there currently is but not the meta in itself.

For that I would redesign the current types of weapons completely (here we have the time-consuming part). First question I have is, why do we need to have all Weapon sizes interchangeable?

There is no need for point defense on a XS core but they should have a weapon that could function as a torpedo to damage ships that are larger.

So why not give every core size a set of special roles in PvP. With the help of these roles, you could design weapons that would go along with these roles. And forcefully give every core a purpose.

On top of that you could balance every core for itself. Which would make it easier in the future.

And to make my point clearer here are some examples:

 

L cores could function as Carriers (Make docked ships immortal as long as the shield of the main ship is intact or give the main shield damage instead) and Capital Ships. With this we would need battle cannons and point defense weapons. To protect against smaller constructs (point defense) or attack same sized constructs at close range (cannons).

 

XS Cores could function on the other hand as fighters or Bombers. Fighters would need small directional cannons to take down similar sized ships and Bombers would need torpedoes or so to damage larger ships. (Maybe even with special ammo types like EMP, stops scripts for x seconds or reduces shield resistances).

 

These are some examples I have for such a system. I hope they helped a lot with making my opinion clear.

 

 

 

Player Skill

If the individual skill should be more important in PvP. You could reduce the aim Cone for Small Ships drastically, so that the pilot needs to align these properly. Or add a minigame for the point defense guys where they need to track the path of the enemy fighter to hit it.

 

Further ideas

With such a system, it would be easy to add other things in the future. You could add Warp Inhibitor or devices that slow down ships in proximity to the L Core Ship Set. Or maybe a device that enables Station siege for L Cores, so that you need an L Core to be allowed to attack a space station or space territory and if the ship dies the attack is over.  

 

If you have any ideas, questions or constructive critics, I would love to hear them.

[Endstar]

For speed variations seems like if we get a core size to cross section relation this could help. A flat core to speed relation would limit building options and the push the game towards one common size. If you can use both aspects ship builders get more options and more variation.  

[Zireaa]

I don’t think pvp will ever be good in this game just a gank fest is all it will  ever be but that’s my opinion who knows we’ll  see 

[Feriniya]

2 hours ago, Zireaa said:

I don’t think pvp will ever be good in this game just a gank fest is all it will ever be but that’s my opinion who knows we’ll see

most time eve the same %) but is not make eve bad game

and on my opinion i think is correct if large fleet can kill on ship.. gank is okey at this situation i think.. cannot be 1 fighter destroy all fleet with 10 ships for example.
or i not correct understand what you try to say about gank and problem with that.

[blundertwink]

14 hours ago, Zireaa said:

I don’t think pvp will ever be good in this game just a gank fest is all it will  ever be but that’s my opinion who knows we’ll  see 

 

Open world PvP is a gankfest in general for any IP that's ever implemented it.

Open world PvP in a game where every ship is custom...? That's even more asymmetrical by design...which makes it feel even more unbalanced. 

Open world PvP in a game where there's zero other outlet for combat? Of course people will gank...there's little else to do. 

Open world PvP in a game where there's no levels, so new players are put on the same playing field as vets...? Riiight that works great. 

 

PvP in DU was never well-conceived. That's obvious because there's still no real plan on how things like Territory War will work...after the better part of a decade. 

 

PvP in DU can't be balanced because it was never designed to be balanced. It doesn't matter how they manipulate the meta around core sizes, voxels, etc. -- the fundamental formula for PvP is such that it will never be especially competitive or balanced...never mind interesting or engaging.