Jump to content

What has not been implemented with Demeter


Knight-Sevy

Recommended Posts

I was told to say when I like or I don't like a certain thing. So here is a different feedback from any that may have been given to Demeter.

What I like :
NQ said :  

" Ultimately, in the update after Ares (Demeter), constructs will be negatively impacted if they contain stacked elements, we don’t currently have specifics yet but see this as an advanced notice. Elements Stacking is a bug, there’s no way around it. As a bug, especially one generating a lot of gameplay imbalance, it has to disappear at some point. So here’s a heads up for all builders who made Constructs with stacked Elements. "


What I do not like :
We are on the Demeter patch and ships contain stacked elements can still be used.

===> So, what are we supposed to do ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Creator said:

Thread lock inbound... in before the Pann ?

Please join this thread already in progress on the topic.
https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/23577-clarifications-about-element-stacking-and-ares-maintenance/

?????

 

Avoid commenting if you don't add anything constructive.
Thank you

 

So, It really is a problem.
Some may not realize it, but players still use (and buy) element stacked ships.

You can start to fight for the sale of ore and the payment of your taxes. But be aware that players have a time and fuel advantage over you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:

Some may not realize it, but players still use (and buy) element stacked ships.

Some may not realize it, but element stacked ships are allowed outside PvP. When you see them in PvP than don't make threads in the forum but report them to Customer Support. That's what Creator tried to tell you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

Some may not realize it, but element stacked ships are allowed outside PvP. When you see them in PvP than don't make threads in the forum but report them to Customer Support. That's what Creator tried to tell you.

 

Element stacked ships should no longer be able to fly on the Demeter update (element obstruction). Except that is not the case for the moment.

In the worst case I would like to know why and when it will be effective.

 

And in PvP we kill and dismantle the ship. We are not going to lose the ship with a report after catching it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:

 

Element stacked ships should no longer be able to fly on the Demeter update (element obstruction). Except that is not the case for the moment.

In the worst case I would like to know why and when it will be effective.

 

And in PvP we kill and dismantle the ship. We are not going to lose the ship with a report after catching it.


With this confession before NQ, they should then also live with the consequences.

Edited by Zarcata
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Zarcata said:


With this confession before NQ, they should then also live with the consequences.

 

If we report a ship with element stacked that we have killed.
What will NQ be able to do?
Take the ship away from the cheater? We have done this before.
I don't think they would have a warning or anything.
And even if they did, the chances of them being reported again are very low.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

Not in general. IIRC Demeter just changed obstruction for atmospheric brakes.

 

Juste read pls :

" Ultimately, in the update after Ares (Demeter), constructs will be negatively impacted if they contain stacked elements, we don’t currently have specifics yet but see this as an advanced notice. "

 

We are in Demeter and construct with stacked do not are negatively impacted.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly, I was trying to add some humor cause Pann was going around locking every other thread yesterday even if they were valid as a blind sort of forum clean up.
That said I hate the stacked element exploit just as much as basic members of the community telling other basic members to "stfu" or leave the forums, etc.

Too be fair my post didn't contribute much, but I had planned on circle back around later in the discussion. Sometimes a small goofball post though is how I keep tabs on important threads I want to follow by leaving a breadcrumb post as I did.

All of that out of the way... back to stacked elements...

They need removed. Players have had enough time and enough warning that they should have gotten their plans sorted by now to fix this issue. Same as nested org exploit that went on forever, same as anything before that. If I can lose a 2 year project that was my reason for logging into DU every day, then everyone else can stop using exploits to screw other players with unfair advantage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

We are in Demeter and construct with stacked do not are negatively impacted.

Above you claimed "Element stacked ships should no longer be able to fly". That's something completely different than "constructs will be negatively impacted if they contain stacked elements". Now that you already went back to this point just make the last step and ask yourself how you are going to see if a ship is negatively impacted or not - especially without any "specifics".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

Above you claimed "Element stacked ships should no longer be able to fly". That's something completely different than "constructs will be negatively impacted if they contain stacked elements". Now that you already went back to this point just make the last step and ask yourself how you are going to see if a ship is negatively impacted or not - especially without any "specifics".


Too bad for you but we will campaign for things to be done as it should be: An engine IN another engine must cause the 2 engines to be 100% obstructed.
 

Now ask yourself the real question, why don't you want this to happen ?
Either you are one of the cheaters moving Kt's of cargo in atmo while not paying the cost in time / fuel.
Or even worse you are one of the unscrupulous ship builders who sell these glitched ships.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:


Too bad for you but we will campaign for things to be done as it should be: An engine IN another engine must cause the 2 engines to be 100% obstructed.
 

Now ask yourself the real question, why don't you want this to happen ?
Either you are one of the cheaters moving Kt's of cargo in atmo while not paying the cost in time / fuel.
Or even worse you are one of the unscrupulous ship builders who sell these glitched ships.

 

My ships, with a unique style btw, have no stacked elements. I never did that, nor I wanted to do.
Still, hardly anyone bought any BPs - all in all I sold maybe 6 or so BPs. Apparently the stacked ones got sold like cakes.
And that was the only thing which could interest ma at least a bit in the game (ship building), since everything else is meh .... I was waiting and hoping for it to change. It didn't. That's why I gave up, after 5 years. I cannot "leave" of course, since I am a Ruby Founder, but if this thing doesn't get completely overhauled or sold to a more capable developer, just as I said in my video, it will give its last breath rather sooner than later. 

Edited by sHuRuLuNi
because I can
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Didn't a lot of people on here demand a feature that would tell them whether they had stacked elements on their ship?

 

It seems like NQ heard that, and they're trying to accommodate by adding the feature first.  and giving people time to fix their ships.

 

Personally, i think anyone with a stacked ship is probably fully aware.  And that whole argument was just blind resistance to the idea of their stacked ships being taken away.

 

But either way.  The patch notes said that stacked elements will become non-functional in a future update.  So i'm not sure what the point of this thread is.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

Didn't a lot of people on here demand a feature that would tell them whether they had stacked elements on their ship?

 

It seems like NQ heard that, and they're trying to accommodate by adding the feature first.  and giving people time to fix their ships.

 

Personally, i think anyone with a stacked ship is probably fully aware.  And that whole argument was just blind resistance to the idea of their stacked ships being taken away.

 

But either way.  The patch notes said that stacked elements will become non-functional in a future update.  So i'm not sure what the point of this thread is.

 

 

 

 


NQ sai that " in the update after Ares (Demeter) "

We are in the update after Ares.

This topic is here to find out why it is still not up in game to date. NQ is of course not obligated to answer this.
So just NQ tell us if it's canceled or just postpone.
And if possible communicate a date.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Knight-Sevy said:

Now ask yourself the real question, why don't you want this to happen ?

 

Stop reading your opinion into other people's statements. I didn't say that I do not want it. I just don't expect it anytime soon. NQ didn't say that element stacked ships will not work anymore with Demeter. They just announced negative impacts that have not been specified. Wake up and face the reality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is from the Demeter patch notes.

 

Quote
  • Element overlapping visual feedback
    • Accessible from the build helper through the element list of the construct.
    • Overlapping elements will have a small warning symbol next to it.
    • Overlapping elements will become non-functional in a later update.

 

They announced a two-stage plan.  They implemented stage one.  And said stage two will come in a later update.

 

What am i missing?

 

You just want to know why it hasn't happened faster?  Your guess is as good as mine, but i doubt they are going to share that information.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

This is from the Demeter patch notes.

 

 

They announced a two-stage plan.  They implemented stage one.  And said stage two will come in a later update.

 

What am i missing?

 

You just want to know why it hasn't happened faster?  Your guess is as good as mine, but i doubt they are going to share that information.

 

 

 

Currently in play I am in front of XL engines which overlap in an undeniable way.

And there is no window indicating that these are problem engines.

So still my question: if this feature is postponed / not implemented. When will it be effective ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

 

Currently in play I am in front of XL engines which overlap in an undeniable way.

And there is no window indicating that these are problem engines.

So still my question: if this feature is postponed / not implemented. When will it be effective ?

 

Many elements can be placed in a position where a small part of them is slightly overlapping.  Without using an exploit.  Especially larger elements.

 

So did it require an exploit to put those XL engines in that position, or were they simply placed that way because the game allowed it?

 

I have no idea how the system works, and i don't have any ships with intentionally exploited elements, so no way to test it myself.  But i was hoping that they would find a way to prevent the exploit, without also breaking half the ships in the game that were built without using any exploits.

 

If their new system can't tell the difference between fully overlapped, exploited elements, and slightly overlapped but legally placed elements, it's going to cause quite a shitstorm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/10/2021 at 5:21 AM, Knight-Sevy said:

 

Element stacked ships should no longer be able to fly on the Demeter update (element obstruction). Except that is not the case for the moment.

In the worst case I would like to know why and when it will be effective.

 

And in PvP we kill and dismantle the ship. We are not going to lose the ship with a report after catching it.

 

Honestly I think most of the elements NQ designs are way more bloated in shapes or sizes than they need to be with how much stats they actually give that requires stacking to be necessary in the first place. Not everything like engines or wings needs to be as complicated as it is if they made it modular at the start and actually let us build engine housings and the voxel parts of wings if they just gave us flaps, landing flaps, and the basic parts that make designing elements easier.

 

Limiting placement like brakes to the outside of a ship limits a lot of things or needing 400+ finnacky wings that turn red randomly or unblocked is just a side effect of not making modular elements that fit better into the engineering aspect of the game to make it your own without stacking parts which dont really matter if it occupies the same space outside of PvP because no matter what it still adds weight no matter where it is placed and the size of parts is tricky enough as it is to get max performance placements on some builds or to make anything look half decent you want to bring into the game.

 

They dont need to engineer it for us as making things look better is our job since why add the weight of the engine housing and then voxelize it on top of it.

 

 

 

It would be impossible to engineer anything like a P-47 or most things with how the system is for their desired intent of players making constructs their own beyond the low stats parts give in general requiring massive amounts of engines or whatever to make it work.

Edited by Warlander
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm talking about items stacked like 10 XL Engines IN of each other.
 

This is not normal, it is cheating and it should be punished accordingly.
 

After the flight system in general needs to be reviewed, that's another topic.
And I'm not against the changes on this. Just that the game has rules right now and you have to follow them.
 

=> To complete my position on the construction building, I will be doing a capacity cost (exactly like for weapons in PvP). Even if that means making up for the maximum item limit by adding a more powerful Rare / Exotic variant. See the more powerful basics.
Limit an M ship to have M engines and only 8 maximum. But these M engines will have the power of an old L engine, for example. It will only make the game more interesting.

But that's another subject.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Warlander said:

Honestly I think most of the elements NQ designs are way more bloated in shapes or sizes than they need to be with how much stats they actually give that requires stacking to be necessary in the first place.

 

Tell me about it. Everything in DU looks like it has been designed for giants, including furniture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

I'm talking about items stacked like 10 XL Engines IN of each other.
 

This is not normal, it is cheating and it should be punished accordingly.
 

After the flight system in general needs to be reviewed, that's another topic.
And I'm not against the changes on this. Just that the game has rules right now and you have to follow them.
 

=> To complete my position on the construction building, I will be doing a capacity cost (exactly like for weapons in PvP). Even if that means making up for the maximum item limit by adding a more powerful Rare / Exotic variant. See the more powerful basics.
Limit an M ship to have M engines and only 8 maximum. But these M engines will have the power of an old L engine, for example. It will only make the game more interesting.

But that's another subject.

 

If there is a demand for x10 XL space engines why not just have an option to drop an XL engine with the power of 10 at like 1.1x weight for the ability to do so? Not all parts need to be designed so poorly like the XL space engine that hogs space and has a wonky placement box around it that makes placing parts next to it. There is a need for it obviously and and slight weight modifier to fit more into the same space for power at the cost of a fractional amount of weight is a good trade off.

 

Or that there should be some kind of scaling to elements when you multiply it that just scales the mesh so if you add 10 XL space engines it makes the model 10% larger.

 

The point of the P-47 vid is that a P-47, P-51, or spitfire are all relatively the same size class of fighters, but the engine in the P-47 is slightly larger and has more power/super charger built in that makes it larger through engineering. It didnt require an XXL to be made that was double the size but it does the same job just with a slightly bigger engine for slightly more power which is the same concept as stacking. When you fit more into the same space to boost power, performance, etc its called engineering to do more with less space to fit a certain space specification.

Edited by Warlander
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...