Demeter Tax Adjustments, Mining changes, buffs, and adding a little more freedom, fun, variety, and choice back into the game. Demeter 2.0.

[Warlander]

Demeter is ok but changes do need to be made to give more freedom of choice, options, variety, fun, and more in general from mining operations. 

 

Proposed Changes:

 

 

Headquarter Tiles:

• There should be a corperate headquarter tile that is different from headquarters tiles as the actual main headquarters that has a 50% tax break for anything on the tile including taxed static cores for the tax break of having a solar system wide corperate headquarters. 
• x4 additional headquarters tiles that come with a 25% tax break build in for taxed static cores.

 

TU zoning taxes

• Industrial TU
  • TU that is set aside for industry units and cannot place down military, mining, or commercial elements into the core
• Mining TU
  • TU that allows for more miners but does not allow industry, military, or commercial elements in the tile since the resources are essentially the value of the tile and allowing more mining to be done on one tile with baked in efficiency buffs on a mining tile.
• Residential/builder TU
  • Cheap tax rate but not being able to have an industry, mining, or military elements in the tile
• Military TU more tax but has access to military defenses
• Commercial TU
  • could be based on retail tax or a low market type retail tax for P2P or vending transactions with or without a balanced tax rate or that part of the taxes collected in retail cover the tax rate automatically if you hit the tax.

 

Tax Cycle:

• Change the Tax Cycle to every 2 weeks or once a month if you pay a sub.
• Change the efficiency drop timer start at a weeks worth of mining.
• Failing to pay taxes should not kick you out of the game if you default and instead do 10% damage to TUs/Constructs that fail to pay taxes so that if you dont have the quanta you can recover the repairs and pay taxes the next time or dodge taxes and pay with scrap.

 

The Tax Cycle should be made so you get 1 weeks worth of efficiency before it starts to drop and take a second week to hit 0% efficiency. This give players a larger leash from having to micro manage mining units.

 

Changing it to every 2 weeks lets you have time to breath and make money to cover the taxes every two weeks.

 

The rust system should be an alternate to taxes with a resource sink to TUs and Cores you dont pay taxes on that causes 10% damage and efficiency to what is still running on the tile. Anyone should be able to leave the game and come back within 6 months if the cycle was made to be every 2 weeks. You could first have to pay back taxes if your account went dry and repair your buildings and fleet that was sitting in disrepair for the last 6 months. As soon as cores are destroyed by the rust system anyone should be able to salvage them but it still gives people a chance to come back and dig their way out if they want to play again.

 

Taxes:

• Every Core should be taxed as added value to any TU is resides in as the game tracks the location of cores under a TU and both the TU and Cores add in taxing property by adding additions or owning vehicles.
• Change Tu Tax price to 100k instead of 1 mil per TU per tile.
• Wther you have 1 tile with 75 cores or 75 tiles with 1 core on each the tax rate is equally applied to the property value adjustment for building on the land by over all assets being calculated into the real property tax value.
• Each XS core you own should cost 25k in taxes per cycle
  • 75 cores = 1.875mil in taxes
• Each S core you own should cost 50k in taxes per cycle
  • 75 cores = 3.75mil in taxes
• Eachy M core you own should cost you 75k in taxes per cycle
  • 75 cores = 5.625mil in taxes
• Each L core you own should cost you 100k in taxes per cycle
  • 75 cores = 7.5 mil in taxes
• EAch XL core you own should cost you 125K in teaxes per cycle (when it comes out)
• NQ should then lower taxes further by how much 1-100% voxel complexity you have in each core so if you only have a complexity score of 25% you would only pay 25% tax on that tile in core tax. 

 

 

The maximum tax you would pay on cores is 7.5 mil and with TUs you just add on 100k per tiles and if you have 3/5/10+ tiles its still 1 mil per 10 tiles rather than 30 mil for 30 tiles and since it is based on how much you are using 30 L cores being taxed is still a lot cheaped than tile taxes we have now in the immediate future or to account for long term progression.

 

Parking taxes/fines/Rent

• Parking a dynamic core within one of your static cores should lower taxes on a dynamic core's tax by 25% or by the size of the core adding 5% tax break.If it is being housed in a static core vs a mining ship in an unclaimed tile or parked at a market. All that matters is being parked when taxes hit in a core you own.
• Parking at another players core will raise your tax by 25% and give a portion of the increased taxes to the tile owner.
  • Org mates and tile owners always have free parking on their tile(s)
  • If you are given rights to park for free by the owner of the tile it should be an option
  • Parking fees can also be imposed as an option to park for a set amount of time.
  • Failing to pay parking tickets could restrict any permissions you have from the tile owner or different interactions with constructs or elements.
  • Multiple cycles of not paying fines on a tile can lead to possible PvP flags between players and illegally parked constructs or also be salvaged.
• Parking at a market tile for a week should double your tax rate on dynamic cores parked at a market anywhere in the game. There should be a timer running like a parking meter that calculates how much tax to charge you and if you stay parked there the whole month you get charged 50 more on the tax rate of those cores.
  • Not paying your market parking tickets will restrict a player or possibly their org until the fines are payed to the market the ships are at if that is multiple markets then you cant use them.
  • Not paying taxes a second time will impound your ship that wont let you move or interact with the core until the parking tickets get paid.
  • After impounding a vehicles the next tax cycle turns your ship salvageable.

 

Login Bonus Tax Reduction:

• Every Day you login in you get -1% tax beak.
• If you log in each day in a week you get 7% tax beak
• Incentivize people to play and playing for 100 days straight should be -100% taxes.
• Beyond -100% taxes it should then on the 100th day start adding higher universal basic income per day or add 1-10k each day to make people who play more get better login rewards over time for loyalty to NQ and DU.

 

Rust System:

• If you fail to pay taxes the Core Or TU should take 10% damage as a sort of erosion system to all Cores and TUs that fail to pay the tax. 
• Eventually the core will take 100% damage and open up to salvaging if the player is not there for 6 months with a resource sink if you cant pay the quanta sink.
• It allows for players to take a break but they still have 6 months to play and then repair the building and ships for letting their opperation sit idle rusting away.
• It still allows the buildings to exist for a good amount of time that reflects the degradation in game with elements on fire after a certain point.

 

There needs to be a better option of pay taxes or your out of the game permantly approach that gives players time to come back and pay back taxes and introduce a tax penalty and a resource sink that causes things to "rust" if you dont pay taxes and repair instead and either forgiving not paying taxes to trade repairs and then either paying Quanta or trading for using Scrap to repair elements rusting away. If the tax cycle was every 2 week you would have 10 tax cycles if your elements took 10% damage every cycle and rusted away after 10 cycles that would blow the cores and make it salvageable.

 

Lots of things happen to not play for 6 months but at least the world would look more full until it was salvaged after 6 months and burning elements and rusted away ships should require salvagers to repair all parts if they want to salvage and this system slowly breaks everything in the core that you can just take possession of the core. But NQ should always give people a chance to come back since DU can be fun and eventually everyone checks out a patch like every 6 months for decent patch releases.

 

Tile Ore Pools:

• Change the ores shown to a single node that has a finite amount of ore that is a virtual ore node that when you mine it out it randomly spawns a new ore node of random ores after the stack of ore in liters is depeleted. 
• It should randomly generate nodes like the old system that had 4kl-1mil+kl in a single finite ore node to allow mining units limited by how many can go onto a core by size or tier.
  • With MUs having 50-100l/h+ even if a 4kl node spawned you could smash it in an hour with 40 L miners by tier halfing the output but still allowing lower tier miners to attempt to check through 4kl even if it take 2/3/4 times longer and doubles the time miners take to mine in L/h
  • With MUs a 1,000,000kl node would take 10,000 miners to crush in an hour and require many cores within 1 tile but aquisition would be much easier managing machines. Where your tile could be working on a node for weeks chewing through the node.
  • Players could also mine multiple tiles to have access to more nodes randomly generated.
• Making it more about how fast your org can kill virtual nodes that make tiles less stagnant and random that constantly changes. 
• After a node is depleted it takes an hour to find a new node.
• Make it so that you can group mine huge nodes if your tile gets a 1-10 million node
•  wait another hour to find another node

 

Scanner Changes:

• Static Core based mining should use a scanner instead of a charge.
  • A calibration should take the tile scan results and burn them instead of the charge to discover new nodes
  • Tile results should allow players to be able to choose what node to work on in the upcoming L/H tick so that you can work on a different ore.
  • Scanning just consists of generating random node stack you could then choose to min in a tile that have a finite pool.
  • Not owning a scanner would just result in a random node being discovered automatically without needing a scanner vs tile results that are up to date requiring a scanner for mining opperations to be on site.
• Dynamic Core based mining should also require scanning to calibrate mining units instead of a charge
  • Scanners would still be required for mining ships to scan and find random nodes of ore that have finite Pools of ore.
  • Players could use scanners on unclaimed tiles to identify and select the ore they want to mine on the tile in finite ore stacks.
  • Not having a scanner would still allow players to land on the surface with a ship and just start mining if the randomly generated node was the option they have until it is depleted and a new virtual finite or node is generated in an hour. With potential nodes being 4kl-1mil like the old system you could choose or randomly stumle on mega nodes randomly generated for you.

 

This would allow anyone to mine what is currently in the tile but still allow players to random roll various nodes per hour via a scanner or to go with what has already spawned the miners have identified being closest to your location unless you take and burn a tile scan result to recalibrate when needed to switch up what node you want to work on if you want different ore or the efficiency drops.

 

Efficiency Changes:

• Efficiency in this new mining system would base efficiency of a node by how large the node actually is. So if you got a 4kl finite ore node stack you would lose efficiency faster the lower the Liters are in the % of the ore left so you can grab ore faster and as it depletes % wise you lose L/Min If you stumble on a 1mil+ finite meganode stack then you can maintain better L/Min rates for a longer period of time without needing to scan and change the node to get more efficiency by what is actually virtually in the tile or should be with a more realistic non voxel based Mining system that is more like the old system and streamlined.

 

If moving back to a virtual version of the mining system adapted to RNG based nodes you discover and can choose to mine them or scan the tile to get better liters per tile to make the system slightly more active and centralized. It should take minimal effort but at the same time require monitoring at least every so often if only just to see how large the node it is working on is. Where the randomly generated size of a virtual node based % efficiency drop is a little more realistic and random instead of being stuck with a static ore pool that never has any variety.

 

Mining Units:

• There should be a mining Unit for each core size XS-L and Tier of MU as well.
• Each MU would be able to mine its tier more efficiently. Or if you use it to mine something below it in Size or Tier you get better Rates. 
• Each ship should be capable of carrying 1 MU of every Tier by the size of the core.
  • XS T1-5 mining units can only have 1 MU of each tier on an XS Static or Dynamic core.
  • S T1-5 mining units can put 2 MUs of every tier on an S Static or Dynamic core.
  • M T-15 mining units can put 3 MUs of every tier on a M Static or Dynamic core
  • L T1-5 mining units can put d MUs of every Tier on a M Static or Dynamic Core
• Mus would work half as fast in L/Min on the tier above it and double each Tier below it in L/H
• Efficiency by the % remaining in virtual ore based node stacks randomly generated or chosen through burning scanning results to calibrate a tile to a couple of choices if the L/M is dropping too much for your liking or not being able to scan and needing to finish the node. Or just random rolling one single node without a scanner.
• Static Core Based miners should have a 25% bonus to having an organized mining opperation with Roots put down and allowing multiple cores with more mining units to justify the taxes for cores in return.

 

By moving taxes to TUs and Cores makes it so that the geographic location of limiting static cores to mining units alone does not matter if you have the ability to put down 40 miners and using T1 moners or T5 Miners on T1 ore at 500L/Min is not game breaking if you are taxing the cores as you could give more from miners and the finite pools of virtual node mining could vary drastically by the size of the nodes themselves as it gets harder and harder to get the little scraps it should naturally slow down that way. Limiting ships to 4-20 miners of all types makes it worth going to different planets to mine with the same freedom the old system had to allow for more exploration to make it worth it.

 

Asteroid Mining:

• Mining Units if with this system can be adapted to a dynamic core they should also have some form of use in asteroid mining.
• MUs should act like a mining rool but allowing the pilot to mod their ship with auto miners that can mealt through the rock and dig holes to the ore if it can tartget the middle of the ore to get their faster. Its not necessary but it would be a cool way to aid mining.
• Add static mesh asteroids that you could also use the Auto Miners to harvest ground rocks that are potentially smaller to massive floating static meshes on an industrial level. Since they are static meshes they would be a lot easier to populated like ground rocks if you consider the gravity plane to be like the flat mesh rocks are already set up to spawn like if NQ just created a giant invisible flat mesh to spawn them on and have rifferent speeds and rotations to wherever they float to. If there was also a collision or bounce effects or that the flat plane would slowly pull the asteroids towards the gravity of the plane orships if you go above or below the plane. So there is still random asteroids that are less than the voxel versions to hunt all week long with the really good hauls on weekends.

 

Asteroids should also have a use for AutoMiners if a baby miner can mealt dirt in asteroids with a 4x4 rock mealting laser or A T5 L miner can cut a hole the size of an upgraded mining tool. It gives your pilot something to do while miners mine unless the pilot decides to mine too. The small lazer could be used as a guid to take you to the center of the ore the miner picks up in the areas. So that when you dig you just need to follow the route the lazer burned through to and start mining while the timer ticks.

 

Charge based buff system:

• Change Charges to a buff system so that it just gives you a buff for an hour that makes interacting with anything in the game 25% better for base stats. talents (minus putdowns or industry schematics). So no matter what you do in the next hour you get the most out of it.

 

Changing the charges themselves to a buff system frees up mining with using scanners on both ships and static core structures that lets you scan with the tile scanner and then using the scan results to instantly calibrate it and switch the primary virtual node you want to work on that has randomly generated ores with a varying quantity of ore in each virtual node. Once you choose the node all miners will default to the node pretty much streamlining the need for charges. So instead of removing the charge system why not use it as a buff system to where whatever construct you want to buff it gets a 25% bonus for a set about of time so you could buff your ship for an hour, buff your industry in a core 25% in speed, productivity, buff your Mining Operations 25% for an hour. Allow people to stack charges if you plan to go for a 6 hour flight you can boost all stats on the ship 25% and stack 6 charges for the buff to last 6 hours for the full duration of the flight.

 

Obviously you shouldnt get putdown buffs or schamatic type industry pushes in the buff but it could also be used to boost yourself and all available talents 25% for an hour as well for all the talents you have unlocked minus putdowns or schematic based talents. Then jumping in a ship could provide you or other people  if oyu spend a charge to buff someone else or to as a Org stack buffs for however many hours you want with no limit. Or likewise take your org and go buff newbies and stack charges to help new players out who cant take advantage of talents they dont have by buffing someone else with your talent stats for a 1 hour buff per charge.

 

Ore Market Manipulation Script

• Since Missions hand out free Quanta and Skip the line for paying Taxes it is only fair to bring back the ore maniulation script that has a set amount of ore NQ will buy per day that is a couple H or 1H cheaper than the lowest market price that wont let the market go below 20h on ore.
• This helps people who are mining if they want to just straight sell the ore and take ore right out of the system to get assured quanta to pay taxes if you are not trying to play the markets. If the market dips below 20 there is opportunity to buy that ore and make more profit selling to NQ who will pay 20 as a base minimum per day.
• It makes the ore worth more if there is less in circulations with Demeter having infinitely finite ore.

 

This system is required to al least let people who want to sell at the cheapest price to instantly sell their ore if they need to cover taxes and give quanta to cover the taxes so that the ore will always be worth something and each day the price could change to a higher payout depending if the market moves up as the payout catches up day by day until the market stabilizes or dips in which case it always has the 20h or higher ore price by tier set to keep the market from collapsing.

 

Also if there was an RNG based system to spawn virtual nodes with a quantity of liters for the node You could use the control of the amount of ore NQ will buy from you that is bought and if the market slows or speeds up the limit per day could be changed and also the game could use the ore leaving the game with the virtual nodes being generated to inject a stable amount of ore back into the game.

 

Manipulation Economy script loop:

• All Taxes are actually used in the economy script to control the inflow, outflow of both ore and quanta
• Taxes collected by NovaQuark are put into a NovaQuark org bank account to pay for the ore, parts, etc they need to opperate.
• The ore manipulation script then purchases ore based on the tax pool in the bank account to turn around and keep the ore market stable with the influx coming in to cover taxes or to take that much ore out of the game to sell directly who always has the lowest prices in the market unless it dips below a certain pricepoint that NQ props the market up with if needed or adjusting the market each day slowly raising their price each day to catch up with the market.
• NQ also sells the ore they buy to take more quanta out of the game at the lowest price.
• NQ can control the amount of ore entering the game through randomly generating ore in finite virtual nodes with limited amounts of nodes while giving variety back to tiles

 

Weekly Events:

• NQ should have an event each week with some kind of parts request with a list of all the various parts they need to build different projects.
• Players fill the bulk order so that NQ can make what they need for the project.
• The weekly even actually serves to add something to the game once the order is fulfilled if that takes two weeks whenever it is complete the next week will generate a new request.
• Contests for making a NovaQuark fleet of various ships by the contest and parts required to make it are in the buying orders for the coming contests to make NovaQuark buildings or ships.
• NQ actually spawns their projects somewhere in the solar system. If that is 4 L ships, 8 M ships, 12 S ships, and 24 XS fighters, a L core Spacestation, Parking pads, gun instalations, sensors, etc. And just spawns ships to protect some part of the solar system so if you fire on them the NQ ships fire back or automatically target threats as a rudimentary PvE people could assault as additioanl content.
• Having other weekly events that are research based experiments that require ore, parts, ect to affect progress of society by researching various parts and innate talents at random and actually making them slightly better over time if people are interested in the stat, part, or talent.
• Having GMs or Devs running events in game where one of the crew takes various ships and puts them into a formation in an XL core so it looks like there is a massive fleet and assault players witht an active event where a dev/gm could warp around looking like a huge armada and attacking players to stimulate PvP to beat the armada and either help or fight whoever fires on the Event Armada.
• Participating in events or completing events should give all those who participate or those who were top 3 should get 1 exp per min and 3-1 extra for playing top 3.

 

 

Easy to make events that are just a parts list could be set up quickly since you know what it takes to build a ship you want made and using that as the checklist for submissions with a blueprint. Server changing research projects that just buy things also are pretty cool as events to get more passive stats and abilities for participating in the game. Or GMs/Devs who can atimulate battles spawn armadas, blockades, and any number of things and at the same time create combat salvage assault missions or PvE content based events and even active gm events.

 

NQ does not always need to do this but easy to create or set up events could go along way in stimulating gameplay and thank the players for participating in the game at the same time.

 

Monthly Events:

• There should be an event that runs each month as well that is like the weekly events but basically spawns a giant fleet somewhere with premium parts if you can siege and assault the NQ fleet but also added PvP elements of other PvP orgs.
• Monthly Events could also be researched based events where they are working on some kind of progress to civilization and require different ores or parts in their experiments. If the players fulfill the research request before the end of the month it should add base stats inherantly added to the players stats or the bonus to specific talents the research unlocks. Like more L/H on MUs, More lift for wings, more production for a specific industry units, ship parts, or weapons, efficiency, or whatever else we could research.
• Active events where 1 or more GMs/Devs jump on and take all their frustrations out on us by spawning multiple XL cores that are huge armadas and goes to warwith us in a deathmatch as a end of month game night and some random events 4 times a month they can participate in or create buy quests or whatever they want. Then taking a bunch os ships and making huge armadas within the XL core to then fight players in space or warp to players via a script to come fight them until a huge group of players comes to fight them. Whenever NQ gets bored or we win the event is over.

 

At least once a month we should have a community game night event where the devs and players have a little fun and NQ gets to take out their frustrations on us with a really fun event where it does something cool for a change and the community and NQ can find some unity for a change.

 

Contests:

• NQ should hold contests for random cool buildings or ships players can build that NQ can spawn later. 
• NQ can have us create a style or class of ships like XS-L class ships, buildings, spacestations, weapons platforms, orbital sensors, satilites, or whatever would be cool in the game they cant get around to making but using us to create generic PvE based events to create things to salvage, make it seem like NQ is trying to police space with fleets of NQ ships you can siege and attack and salvage or events to where NQ has aquired ore and filling freighters with valueable cargo they are trying to protect but disabled and the fleet just needs to collectively turn and fire at people who fire on them and anyone within radar rage or by distace is automatically targeted and an aimbot or tab target lock to face the ships near them and fire directly at them.

 

NQ could use the community a lot more than they do and let us make cool things like buildings and ships they want to see in the game. They dont need to do anything but let us vote and use the best of the top 5 they like and use some of the tax money collected to pay out quanta for winning contests so you can have us make content for NQ but also for us to slowly add some kind of PvE content even if it is fixed location spawns you can come across and fight and loot. 

 

Just make it as simple as possible of a process. Make wahtever ships and then just throw whatever you want into an NQ armada you can spawn as a static sort of PvP event or an active event with GMs or Devs. just add a menu item on the core menu for events and have a submit as blueprint for contest option in the menu then throw them into the giant XL dynamic or static core for modular space station contest NQ could throw into a core and put a market on the space station that player could control since it cant be destroyed but other players could fight over control of it and perhaps make taxes off running it.

 

 

Conclusion:

There is lots of potential with various tweaks. The game before 0.27 was free and promoted travel and exploration and allowed you to choose what you wanted to do. Demeter chains you to a slave mining colony and the system should change how ore is handed, shifing taxes to cores, and opening the game back up and at the very least adding some generic PvP armadas to fight and salvage amongst many other things this opens up while promoting people playing and giving them less tedium and more to do overall.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Warlander

[Creator]

Your Rust system would be the death of every builder and shop owner and landing runway in the game. Structures are often multi core, specifically stores, any ideas of rental units etc. You would also be killing Freeport and Utopia as these taxes would be worse than tile taxes currently. 

That said I do agree with the 7 day tile calibration and have written a modified resolution into the Dementor Treaty.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Creator

[Warlander]

1 hour ago, Creator said:

Your Rust system would be the death of every builder and shop owner and landing runway in the game. Structures are often multi core, specifically stores, any ideas of rental units etc. You would also be killing Freeport and Utopia as these taxes would be worse than tile taxes currently. 

That said I do agree with the 7 day tile calibration and have written a modified resolution into the Dementor Treaty.

 

If you could pay in Quanta or Ore really what is the difference really? Both ore and quanta need to leave the market.

 

Taking ore out of the market instead of just quanta as a money laundering mechanic to sell ore and parts with not much at all leaving the system. You have 10 cycles to repair it before you lose everything in that Core or tile it just shifts the tax to who needs to be taxed the most.

 

Why do you need 100 cubicle stores if you arent making money to cover 100 XS cores worth of tax @100K each. With taxes it essentially creates a weekly or bimonthly payment cycle. It might cost you 10mil in taxes but you can and should charge rent to those selling in the cores or generate enough sales to cover 10mil in a week or two so even if you down own lots of TUs you still get taxed appropriately.

 

The Demeter patch makes taking TUs the focus and TU takes only need to be 100k if you want to pack a single TU with 75 cores or however many people can jam into one unplayable area that needs to be taxed according to usage like electricity bills or any other mechanic like taxes. 

 

There really is no difference between having 100 Territories or 1 TU with 100 constructs and minimizing territory should still come with taxes forthosw who want to build more than they reliably need.

 

But also that there were other options to making quanta like missions that just pump quanta in the game if NQ bought ore again or threw events where people could donate or sell ore directly to NQ if we wanted to do server research or that the taxes were used to pay for all the money going out so it didnt just saturate the market with ore if there was a direct option to instant sell ore directly to NQ with an event or ore manipulation system.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Warlander

[Creator]

To a builder there is a huge difference here between 100 tiles and 100 cores... Just like there is a huge difference between a builder and an economically focused player in earnings... you are basically double stacking against builders with this idea, and would 100% leave game with a system like this the day it is implemented, cause I would no longer be able to keep anything at all without slaving for the game... 

This would be MAGNITUDES worse than the current tax system for builders/creatives, and just can't be allowed to happen... period.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Creator

[Warlander]

38 minutes ago, Creator said:

To a builder there is a huge difference here between 100 tiles and 100 cores... Just like there is a huge difference between a builder and an economically focused player in earnings... you are basically double stacking against builders with this idea, and would 100% leave game with a system like this the day it is implemented, cause I would no longer be able to keep anything at all without slaving for the game... 

This would be MAGNITUDES worse than the current tax system for builders/creatives, and just can't be allowed to happen... period.

 

Its just numbers NQ could make it like 25k for an XS core or 100k for an L core if they want but taxes need to include Cores as the TU geograpically does not matter where most of your wealth is if you have it in a tax haven HQ tile or its offshore with cores at a market it should be taxed and balanced with TUs to somekind of acceptable level.

 

Taxing cores opens the door tomaking ships and ship based auto miners work since you are taxing the cores and it does not need to be nailed down to any particular tile with the core being on land you own or on another planet in an unclaimed tile nobody owns. the Tax is covered for both land and how much you actually use where taxes actually need to be directed rather than arbitrarily across the board at new players or people who are forced to own land to get ore vs the freedom to mine what you want.

 

And if you are taxing cores then the ore should change to since you will need money and since the cores are taxed you could set up the ore to be more random and give more since you could likit mining units to 400 liters per minuite instead of an hour and actually having multiple cores dedicated to mining could now mine 800L per hour for the 100k XS core tax to cover the tax since you can mine more in the same tile and not needing more tiles then you actually need or cores you need or could be using.

 

Even if you could mine 400kl and each core could mine 400 you could still use 10 cores in one tile to mine 4kl per hour rather than 12kl per day. Or if you have org mates and you get a randomly generated 12kl tile guildmates could help you with static cores or mining ships with auto miners and get 12kl per hour with 30 cores rather than 30 territories with 30 Cores to set up a mining opperation.

 

In order to make that work so that you can actually make money you should be able to quick sell it to nq to decide if you want to play the market and make quanta or sell it to NQ and do the same thing as missions to inject endless free quanta since you can bypass the whole money laundering thing if you can also sell the ore directly or run missions if you just want quanta straight up to take both ore and quanta out of the game.

 

The main thing is to get more than just enough ore to pay the taxes but also enough to build a base, have a fleet, and still have enough to save up for a rainy day, craft and sell things, and still have enough excess to want to throw away hundreds of millions potentially in ships in PvP that was supposed to be the source of fun in this game if you dont want to go the non Pvp building, mining, industry route to support friends or org mates to be able to PvP. Demeter does not allow that to happen.

 

Its very restrictive and the lynch pin to what can be moved around in the system starts with oping up static cores and MUs from being stuck on a tile with a TU. The numbers are irrelevant as much as making people pay their fair share of tax by how much they have as well as how much ground the cover in TUs at a lower rate.

[Creator]

Building a treadmill of restrictions to preserve what you have though is a stress inducer that kills creativity, especially if taken from this min/max approach to economics. Imagine you had legos, and first you have to earn the materials or buy your legos, then every week you had to pay for those legos over and over again, for every peace or in this case set of pieces.

Why pay for legos every week when you can go play legos where you don't have do tedious chores with your limited time...

Imagine minecraft in single player with weekly taxes per block... dead
Imagine space engineers with weekly taxes per block... dead

Imagine if Second Life taxed your inventory weekly based on number of items and then started deleting things out you paid real money for... dead
Imagine having a treadmill where everything you have earned you now have weekly chores on top of paying RL money to do those chores... dead, dead, dead.... 

This model is simply too restrictive and punishing, and is a TERRIBLE idea. It is Demeter times 100 even worse... on a micro managing level of insanity.

This is how you kill a game.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Creator

[Maxim Kammerer]

8 hours ago, Warlander said:

Taxes:

• Every XS core costs 50-100k per week or every 2 weeks
  • 75 cores = 3.7-7.5 mil every 1-2 week cycle
• Every S core costs 100-200k per week or every 2 weeks
  • 75 cores = 7.5 mil - 15 mil per 1-2 week cycle
• Every M core costs 150-300k per week or every 2 weeks
  • 75 cores = 11.25mil - 22.5 mil per 1-2 week cycle
• Every L core costs 200-400K per week or every 2 weeks
  • 75 cores = 15-30,000,000  on a 1-2 week cycle
• Every XL core costs 250-500k per week or every 2 weeks (if it comes out later)
• Every TU costs 100k per week.
  • 75 cores = 18.75mil - 37,5mil per 1-2 week cycle

That's the worst idea I ever heard of. The current tax system already is an insult for builders but this would finally brake their neck.

 

While you are at it - why just taxing TUs and cores? An empty L core has less part in the terrible performance than an XS core filled with complex content. Thus, if you really worry about performance you would also need to tax elements and even voxels. It should be obvious how rediculous that is.

[Warlander]

4 hours ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

That's the worst idea I ever heard of. The current tax system already is an insult for builders but this would finally brake their neck.

 

While you are at it - why just taxing TUs and cores? An empty L core has less part in the terrible performance than an XS core filled with complex content. Thus, if you really worry about performance you would also need to tax elements and even voxels. It should be obvious how rediculous that is.

 

As I said it could be 10k 20k 25k 50k or 100k for an XS-L core. I just went off the tax system as a framwork and can be whatever number they want to charge people. TUs being lowered to 100k per tile is the jump point for taxing cores and whatever number that ends up being that is appropriate or distinguishing the tax rate of dynamic or static cores to cost less or more for static cores on tiles vs dynamic cores costing different prices is an option.

 

Either way NQ needed to tax our overall scope in the game and it is not applied equally since ore and tiles are not created equal or the L/H numbers people can pull or How much property people actually own which is why they needed to tax TUs. The cores being taxed raises the value of the property bu how much development is on any of the TUs you own. Like I said it was just an initial framework and base numbers to work with to get a conversation going about it since those with the most should pay their fair share and if you have tons of territories or 1 territory with hundreds of cores on it that has and should add value onto the properties and should be taxed accordingly.

 

NQ gave us core limits and there is nothing saying you should have that many cores out or that you need that many cores out. If you do then it adds property value and should count towards taxes. 

[Warlander]

8 hours ago, Creator said:

Building a treadmill of restrictions to preserve what you have though is a stress inducer that kills creativity, especially if taken from this min/max approach to economics. Imagine you had legos, and first you have to earn the materials or buy your legos, then every week you had to pay for those legos over and over again, for every peace or in this case set of pieces.

Why pay for legos every week when you can go play legos where you don't have do tedious chores with your limited time...

Imagine minecraft in single player with weekly taxes per block... dead
Imagine space engineers with weekly taxes per block... dead

Imagine if Second Life taxed your inventory weekly based on number of items and then started deleting things out you paid real money for... dead
Imagine having a treadmill where everything you have earned you now have weekly chores on top of paying RL money to do those chores... dead, dead, dead.... 

This model is simply too restrictive and punishing, and is a TERRIBLE idea. It is Demeter times 100 even worse... on a micro managing level of insanity.

This is how you kill a game.

 

NQ thinks they need quanta sinks for property. Im just throwing an alternate system out there to see what people are comfortable with. Lowering the tile cost of tax to 100k is a start towards a less stressful system. the 100-400/500k per core could be 25-100k its not like its in the game as much as the framework to getting base line numbers that get quanta out of the game and still allow players the ability to play the game without just playing to pay taxes or micromanage miners.

 

The reason for the low L/H of most tiles is to get you to spread yourself thin chasing 12-19kl a day per tile needs to change along with the ore pool system to allow for the base rate to increase but also have enough randomness like the old system to get ahead without placing all your actual gains on mining opperations being the mini game to get 40-50kl bonuses when it should be based on the node and not the machine since industry does not require any of the same tedium to make more money and make more ore with talent bonuses in some cases.

 

Demeter is a half step in the right direction its just some of the systems need changing and it would be fine.

 

Why should new players be taxed like someone mining T5 on the distant planets if they only have a base and a small number of ships when players out there have hundreds of cores over multiple alts on the same tiles and the tax to someone with trillions tax does not effect at all vs a new player where 1 mil per tile is devastating out of sanctuary. It should be more about usage and actual property value.

 

What numbers for core tax would you prefer with TUs being 100k/w?