Jump to content

The reason pvp sucks in DU


Recommended Posts

NovaQuark.  Its plain and simple.  Not saying the actual devs that write lines of code, but whoever puts out designs, decides on which ideas get tracking, and is in charge of those is the problem. Whoever that is, or people it is needs to go.  Until then it wont get better.  Those people have a complete lack of understanding on games and gameplay.  And mechanics involved.  Here is a good exhibit.

 

image.png.becb0a77a3ba4da2f8551f1db580c7c9.png

 

For one they basically just been tweaking numbers instead of actually developing anything, and only recently got shields.  But look at that Statement.  "shotguns" of dual universe.  Thats all great and all.  But have they wondered why people use shotguns in other games, such as counter strike, dayz, [insert any shooter]?  TERRAIN AND BUILIDINGS BLOCKS LINE OF SIGHT AND BULLETS. That is a fundamental design in those games.  Areas are designed with close quarter combat in mind.  Same way some areas more open so snipers can have advantage.  Now imagine you load up a CS:GO match, and instead of buildings you see only a flat land, and your LOS is the whole map and can see other players.  Are you gonna choose a shotgun or sniper rifle?   You have to work with your game, and the game rules you have.   Now imagine in that same CS:GO match, you have a sniper rifle that does 5% of damage per shot.  But a SCAR with an ACOG does 3% damage. but he can get 3 shots off in the same time as the sniper rifle.  And the SCAR can shoot as far as the sniper rifle.  For anyone who pvps knows what im talking about.  Thats why everyone switched to lasers.  DMG + range was all that mattered.  

 

ALL cores go the same speed.  Thats not gameplay.  I need some sort of reason to choose 1 ship/style whatever over something else. Otherwise there is no gameplay.  Look at eve.  Such variery not only in size of ships, but what certain ships can do in those sizes.  And if you are good in 1 area, then you are bad in another.  You HAVE to force choices.  Thats why the free building doesnt work in open world pvp.  Sure for safe zone hauling its whatever, but still leads to all haulers basically being the same thing but not as much impact cause its not pvp.  Until NQ realizes this, the pvp in this game never stands a chance.  Its a game there needs to be rock/paper/scissors.  There needs to be hard choices in what to use, how to use it.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

Now imagine you load up a CS:GO match, and instead of buildings you see only a flat land

You are trying to imply one game experience to other which have other mechanics. In CS:GO every player can move with same speed and acceleration, that's not the case with DU.
You can have a ship with much higher acceleration than your opponent to be able to get in close range for more damage.

 

 

6 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

Thats why everyone switched to lasers

That's also not true, we use cannons, and successfuly cored few Legion laser ships, without losing any of our ships.
And we use cannons because they have much higher in CLOSE range btw (So no, we don't choose sniper rifles).

 

 

6 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

ALL cores go the same speed.

They already told in latest QnA that this will be changed.

 

 

6 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

Its a game there needs to be rock/paper/scissors

There IS already a basic RPS mechanics, called shield resistances vs ammo type. Have you calculated how much more damage a fleet would do if they balance their ships with cannons/missiles instead of using only two types of ammo?
But yes, I agree this can be addressed more.


Basically the PvP in this game is not fine, I would not called it even "acceptable", but not because of points you have raised here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, W1zard said:

You are trying to imply one game experience to other which have other mechanics. In CS:GO every player can move with same speed and acceleration, that's not the case with DU.
You can have a ship with much higher acceleration than your opponent to be able to get in close range for more damage.

 

 

That's also not true, we use cannons, and successfuly cored few Legion laser ships, without losing any of our ships.
And we use cannons because they have much higher in CLOSE range btw (So no, we don't choose sniper rifles).

 

 

They already told in latest QnA that this will be changed.

 

 

There IS already a basic RPS mechanics, called shield resistances vs ammo type. Have you calculated how much more damage a fleet would do if they balance their ships with cannons/missiles instead of using only two types of ammo?
But yes, I agree this can be addressed more.


Basically the PvP in this game is not fine, I would not called it even "acceptable", but not because of points you have raised here.

 

Your examples are outliers. Every ship goes 30k. If you accelerate slower than someone else literally nothing is stopping you from increasing your acceleration. Nothing.  My points stand, and sure other weapons can be used but range matters, a lot. And cannons only got buffed a few days ago. But so what, that goes back to my original point, condtantly shuffling around stats will never "fix pvp" because it lacks depth.

 

Oh fucking wow. You cored a ship with cannons after they buffed them. Let me guess, with a L core too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

after they buffed them

Actually, right before that
 

 

13 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

literally nothing is stopping you from increasing your acceleration. Nothing

well, cross-section, which defines hit-probability is stopping you from increasing your acceleration.
Also fuel-consumption, engine and fuel mass which increasing your warp cost.
So, not for free, and not that nothing is stopping you.
 

 

13 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

Every ship goes 30k

As I said already, NQ mentioned this would change, why pointing again at that?

 

 

13 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

Let me guess, with a L core too.

Yes, we use L weapons in most pvp encounters, because bigger guns deal more damage, that sounds ok for me.
But there is some cases where we actually use M core ships and M rails, considering cross-section, mass, and total cost of combat mission.

 

 

13 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

Oh fucking wow

No need to be rude here, if you want something to change better be calm and constructive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, W1zard said:

 


 

 

There IS already a basic RPS mechanics, called shield resistances vs ammo type. Have you calculated how much more damage a fleet would do if they balance their ships with cannons/missiles instead of using only two types of ammo?
But yes, I agree this can be addressed more.

 

 

And this prove my point even further.  I'n EvE you have to make these choices AHEAD of time not on the fly.  That's bad gameplay, because people are already doing that. You can use 1 alt and 2 weapons and hit all dmg types completely rending your opponents choices moot on what his resistances is.  That is NQ not knowing shit about making a game. 

 

They think "oh if u have to choose and can adjust then that's gameplay right guys!!" Not thinking it doesn't take a genius to figure out, hey maybe I should shoot as many different dmg types ass possibe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, W1zard said:


 

 

well, cross-section, which defines hit-probability is stopping you from increasing your acceleration.
Also fuel-consumption, engine and fuel mass which increasing your warp cost.

 

 

 

 

My point is every ship in the game is the same. If u can get a certain acceleration, then I can too. There is no magic to building. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What NQ could also do if they are gonna stick with "cores" forever is have different types of cores per size. Ones that have different power grid, different bonuses. But not like their current tiers where it just goes to exotic. Ones u need to make choices on. One that makes u faster, but lowers your shields an resistances.  One that let's you use an extra set of guns, but at the cost of speed.  Stuff of that nature. The more choices we have the better. Especially when those choices come with big negatives. Between those lines is where you can find the gameplay. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  

12 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

AHEAD of time not on the fly

Every weapon type is limited to only 2 different ammo type, and you are chosing weapon type and amounts of each ammo type you carry ahead of time.
 

 

12 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

You can use 1 alt and 2 weapons and hit all dmg types

You can't hit all damage types at every range, you are limited to weapon stats.

 

 

11 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

My point is every ship in the game is the same

Your point is wrong. If you chose to fly only on one type of ship, doesn't mean everyone is flying same ship as you.

There are many pvp ship design out there:
5 laser light ship
10 laser more heavy ship with a lot of CCS
6 cannon high-G no-CCS kamikaze-type ship
12 cannon low cross-section medium CCS
3 M rails very small ship (have you tried to aim at a ship with only 80 m^2 cross section with an L weapon?)

Each of these ships have it's own pros and cons, and should be treated differently in combat encounter.

And that's only ships at our shipyard, not counting what other people can use. (I saw some succesfuly used an M laser ship agains L cores)

 

5 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

What NQ could also do if they are gonna stick with "cores" forever is have different types of cores per size. Ones that have different power grid, different bonuses. But not like their current tiers where it just goes to exotic. Ones u need to make choices on. One that makes u faster, but lowers your shields an resistances.  One that let's you use an extra set of guns, but at the cost of speed.  Stuff of that nature. The more choices we have the better. Especially when those choices come with big negatives. Between those lines is where you can find the gameplay. 

These are some nice ideas, and they kind of corelate with my ideas in topic: 

 

Again, I am not saying PvP is as good as it should or can be, I am just saying that your point is a bit off what is really happining in the open space out there.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Than we agree. It is bad. And nothing you described is something kind of crazy indepth pvp. What u described shows that majority of guns are useless. And you can also pair different guns and get Close enough on ranges. Just aim at getting to a point of your closest one.  Nothing you described sounds remotely fun, as shown by the lack of interest.  

 

The reality is there needs to be legit negatives when you chose something.  One thing we have shouted since alpha days is a power management.  We should not be able to put 300 breaks, 12 engines, 12 guns, adjusters, dsats, rez nodes, shields, and be able to Power it all. There should be thought in how we manage our power out put. That along with different core speeds and core bonuses we at least be a start.  The other problems being no ewar and terrible radar system but NQ always reminds us they are small indie studio so who knows if the game will even be around by the time they can tackle those issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a reason people want S cores and such to have a legit role in pvp. They are cheaper and more accessible.  I know people in EvE that are 10+ year pvp vets, and they mostly fly frigs and interceptors and they are damn fucking good at it and being tackle, or anti tackle in roaming gangs.  NQ needs to address this asap imo. S cores need a real legit role that is vital in pvp. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...