Rebellion Against Taxes!!!

[Atmosph3rik]

29 minutes ago, Creator said:

Whelp, not everything in life is neat little segmented boxes. For you it is a game, for others it is more. What it is for you doesn't automatically discount it as more for others. There was a lot in that post so take what you want from it, and discard the rest...

 

I think it would help if you scaled back your expectations for what you "need" to accomplish in the game to enjoy it, if you want the game to be a relaxing activity.

 

This "game" is a work in progress.  And they are letting us play with it while they work on it.  But it's a game, so they're always adding more gameplay.

 

Just about every time they've added stuff to the game, i've had to scale back my expectations.  In the pre-alpha i could pretty much build anything i wanted.  But then they added resources and crafting and i needed to mine if i wanted stuff.  In the Alpha i could build a factory and craft anything i wanted, and then they added schematics and i had to start collaborating with other players.

 

Being able to do all that stuff was fun.  But the game itself will be a lot more fun, hopefully, once it's finished.

 

The game needs the "game" part.  Not everyone is content to just build stuff.  I might last a year or two if that's all there was, but even i would get bored eventually.  And the social aspect is important to me too.  Having other people in the game is what makes it exciting.  So the game needs to be fun for everyone, not just me.

[Zarcata]

1 minute ago, Kobayashi said:

Didnt you used to spend time mining though?  So instead of using that time to mine the ground, use it to mine roids?  Ok you might not get as much but that is supplemented by your autominers, which work even when you are not playing.  I do agree there are things they can do to balance it (increase autominer yields, decrease taxes, increase the quantity of safe zone roids) but I dont think the system is as flawed as you are making out.  

Genuinely interested to find out how roid mining is now, I used to have no issue getting really good returns from it, I used to do it RATHER than ground mine as it was so much easier to find the ore.  Only playing casually now, so dont really need to do it.

 

Wait a minute.
In the past, you went digging earth out of the ground because you wanted to build something with the material. You could set this time as you wanted, there was no obligation. If you didn't feel like it for 2-3-7-20 days, you simply took a break and your score was paused, so to speak. Nothing was deleted or was in danger in any way, so there were no negative influences to worry about.

But now, as soon as I want to keep my territories, I have to pay the taxes. The mining units are not fully automated either, they consume a lot of my time. So you can only use 6 recharges a day to optimise the units and mine the ores on the surface. However, I also have to use this time every day to keep it profitable, because I now have forced costs that I didn't have to deal with before.
This means that before I can play the way I want, I have to make sure that I play the way I want in order to maintain my obligations. And no, it is not a goal-oriented solution that we all now travel back to Sanctuary or put the territories on HQ.
The MiningUnits also bring me much less ores in the whole runtime than used to be found in the ground. So purely in terms of the time factor, these units are not an improvement!
The same applies to these "missions", they are not profitable in terms of time and benefit. Simply digging into the ground to find ore and selling it on the market was faster and always brought more quanta into the pocket. Likewise, you didn't have to fly through the PvP zone, where you could generally lose everything. (It also doesn't help if you equip a mining ship with weapons, it doesn't help against the pirates' metaships, they are only happy about more loot).

In the end, Demeter introduced a compulsory content and at the same time enormously slowed down and permanently slowed down one's own progress and the progress of the civilisation.

But that is not so much the problem at present, because slow does not necessarily mean bad. What is bad now, however, is the planned wipe for the release. So what is the point of continuing to build, collect materials, set up machine lines... if soon everything will be lost and nothing is safe? Those who have a beta key may not care, but some players will pay for it because it was assumed that there would be no wipe from the beta onwards, unless an extreme technical, unsolvable problem arose that made a wipe the last resort. At the moment there are no such unsolvable problems.

The terrain wipe was also unnecessary, because it was not an unsolvable problem, but mostly just a financial problem. Likewise, a release wipe is generally unnecessary because there are many ways to treat old and new players in the game neutrally and equally. But sure, the wipe is easier and cheaper - yet contradictory to promises made at the time and a slap in the face for all players who pay a subscription.

 

[Kobayashi]

10 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

 

Wait a minute.
In the past, you went digging earth out of the ground because you wanted to build something with the material. You could set this time as you wanted, there was no obligation. If you didn't feel like it for 2-3-7-20 days, you simply took a break and your score was paused, so to speak. Nothing was deleted or was in danger in any way, so there were no negative influences to worry about.

But now, as soon as I want to keep my territories, I have to pay the taxes. The mining units are not fully automated either, they consume a lot of my time. So you can only use 6 recharges a day to optimise the units and mine the ores on the surface. However, I also have to use this time every day to keep it profitable, because I now have forced costs that I didn't have to deal with before.
This means that before I can play the way I want, I have to make sure that I play the way I want in order to maintain my obligations. And no, it is not a goal-oriented solution that we all now travel back to Sanctuary or put the territories on HQ.
The MiningUnits also bring me much less ores in the whole runtime than used to be found in the ground. So purely in terms of the time factor, these units are not an improvement!
The same applies to these "missions", they are not profitable in terms of time and benefit. Simply digging into the ground to find ore and selling it on the market was faster and always brought more quanta into the pocket. Likewise, you didn't have to fly through the PvP zone, where you could generally lose everything. (It also doesn't help if you equip a mining ship with weapons, it doesn't help against the pirates' metaships, they are only happy about more loot).

In the end, Demeter introduced a compulsory content and at the same time enormously slowed down and permanently slowed down one's own progress and the progress of the civilisation.

But that is not so much the problem at present, because slow does not necessarily mean bad. What is bad now, however, is the planned wipe for the release. So what is the point of continuing to build, collect materials, set up machine lines... if soon everything will be lost and nothing is safe? Those who have a beta key may not care, but some players will pay for it because it was assumed that there would be no wipe from the beta onwards, unless an extreme technical, unsolvable problem arose that made a wipe the last resort. At the moment there are no such unsolvable problems.

The terrain wipe was also unnecessary, because it was not an unsolvable problem, but mostly just a financial problem. Likewise, a release wipe is generally unnecessary because there are many ways to treat old and new players in the game neutrally and equally. But sure, the wipe is easier and cheaper - yet contradictory to promises made at the time and a slap in the face for all players who pay a subscription.

 

Apart from HQ tiles means you dont have to pay taxes...... so your whole point it moot.  You can still play the same way as before, as long as you dont want more than 5 tiles.  I 100% agree the game is not as easy as before and it will get harder if they add energy, then even harder when they add territory warfare and people who want an easy game will complain and people who want more of a challenge will enjoy it.

The main reason why I dont play DU regularly anymore is because I didnt find it a challenge, I am waiting for more stuff to come into the game so I cant just continue hoarding unlimited volumes of elements, tiles and other stuff and if / when that challenge is added I want a wipe because I currently have far too much stuff and it would not be fair to new players to try and compete with me and all my stuff when the gameplay has changed so dramatically.

We are clearly different people, within different requirements, neither of us are right or wrong, just that NQ seem to be taking the game in a direction which suits my playstyle.

[Zarcata]

6 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

Apart from HQ tiles means you dont have to pay taxes...... so your whole point it moot.  You can still play the same way as before, as long as you dont want more than 5 tiles.  I 100% agree the game is not as easy as before and it will get harder if they add energy, then even harder when they add territory warfare and people who want an easy game will complain and people who want more of a challenge will enjoy it.

The main reason why I dont play DU regularly anymore is because I didnt find it a challenge, I am waiting for more stuff to come into the game so I cant just continue hoarding unlimited volumes of elements, tiles and other stuff and if / when that challenge is added I want a wipe because I currently have far too much stuff and it would not be fair to new players to try and compete with me and all my stuff when the gameplay has changed so dramatically.

We are clearly different people, within different requirements, neither of us are right or wrong, just that NQ seem to be taking the game in a direction which suits my playstyle.

 

I would partially agree with this if we were in an alpha. In an alpha stage, you can drop content, add new content, change the direction of the game and much more, but not in a beta! And that's an important point here, NQ has declared beta status and thus advertised a product and customers have paid for it. From a legal point of view, you can't change everything to suit NQ, because this would give rise to claims for compensation. I am sure NQ knows this very well.

 

[Kobayashi]

34 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

 

I would partially agree with this if we were in an alpha. In an alpha stage, you can drop content, add new content, change the direction of the game and much more, but not in a beta! And that's an important point here, NQ has declared beta status and thus advertised a product and customers have paid for it. From a legal point of view, you can't change everything to suit NQ, because this would give rise to claims for compensation. I am sure NQ knows this very well.

 

I get your point, but legally there is no definition of alpha / beta etc and what you can and cant do.  NOONE who joined 'beta' at the start could have said that is was only going to have a bit of polish, there were always going to be massive changes.  Territory warfare is probably the biggest game changer, which has ALWAYS been coming and is still not here yet.  So, for me, until all these things are added, I am reserving my judgement.  If I like the game at launch, I will play it, if I dont, I will move on.  

[Zarcata]

4 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

I get your point, but legally there is no definition of alpha / beta etc and what you can and cant do.  NOONE who joined 'beta' at the start could have said that is was only going to have a bit of polish, there were always going to be massive changes.  Territory warfare is probably the biggest game changer, which has ALWAYS been coming and is still not here yet.  So, for me, until all these things are added, I am reserving my judgement.  If I like the game at launch, I will play it, if I dont, I will move on.  

You're probably right, I should just sit back and relax for another 1-5 years and then come back for the release to see what the game has become and only then decide whether to get in or not.

[Creator]

7 hours ago, Kobayashi said:

Didnt you used to spend time mining though?  So instead of using that time to mine the ground, use it to mine roids?  Ok you might not get as much but that is supplemented by your autominers, which work even when you are not playing.  

I could get in 15 minutes of mining what now takes a week if you have a single tile with and MU.

As stated:
- Roids take significant flight time, are limited to a weekend availability for best mining, and risk being emptied out when I usually can play later in the week.

 

[Creator]

@Zarcata      Another 1-5 years, sounds about right, even then we know what it will be like cause look at the last 7-10 years of this games development.

[Anopheles]

I suppose one way to get NQs attention would be to deliberately dig mass tunnels under the planets just to increase server load.  That would be one way to peaceful protest. Just saying.

[Kobayashi]

8 minutes ago, Creator said:

As stated:
- Roids take significant flight time, are limited to a weekend availability for best mining, and risk being emptied out when I usually can play later in the week.

 

They arent limited to the weekends though, or at least they werent when I was doing them, we mined them all the time.  Just go to already discovered roids and tuck in. 

[Creator]

7 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

I think it would help if you scaled back your expectations for what you "need" to accomplish in the game to enjoy it, if you want the game to be a relaxing activity.

 

But if you read what I post, what I am asking for is a Sanctuary tile, which I can move to be with people I like, that produces 200L of each T1 ore. That is a very small expectation.

Alternatively, a SINGLE HQ tile where you could run industry, and mine without paying taxes to do the same on Alioth. But the dev's already told us casuals and builders to go back to sanct where we belong. So I am heading the advice, and asking in order to follow things that the devs have said, and you have said, that the scaled down version make a few accommodations so it doesn't suck so badly.

[Kobayashi]

1 minute ago, Creator said:

But if you read what I post, what I am asking for is a Sanctuary tile, which I can move to be with people I like, that produces 200L of each T1 ore. That is a very small expectation.

Alternatively, a SINGLE HQ tile where you could run industry, and mine without paying taxes to do the same on Alioth. But the dev's already told us casuals and builders to go back to sanct where we belong. So I am heading the advice, and asking in order to follow things that the devs have said, and you have said, that the scaled down version make a few accommodations so it doesn't suck so badly.

See I like both of those ideas and would be more than happy for either to be added.

[Creator]

Just now, Kobayashi said:

They arent limited to the weekends though, or at least they werent when I was doing them, we mined them all the time.  Just go to already discovered roids and tuck in. 

 

Other than this week as stated, I DON'T HAVE TIME TO MINE ROIDS... it takes too friggin long to fly out to them...

[Kobayashi]

2 hours ago, Creator said:

 

Other than this week as stated, I DON'T HAVE TIME TO MINE ROIDS... it takes too friggin long to fly out to them...

Does it though???  If someone else has found them, you can just fly straight to them.  Anyway, I actually think giving everyone a single main HQ tile with no taxes is a very easy solution to this issue, I like the idea a lot.  See, we can agree on something

[Zarcata]

19 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

Does it though???  If someone else has found them, you can just fly straight to them.  Anyway, I actually think giving everyone a single main HQ tile with no taxes is a very easy solution to this issue, I like the idea a lot.  See, we can agree on something

It's totally exciting to fly 60su through space.