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Rebellion Against Taxes!!!


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This is a call to all colonists, if you believe the UEF and Aphelia to be an illegitimate government like we do, then we invite you to join the "Tax Refugees". We will build an infrastructure to avoid the territory tax the empire has tried to place on us. We will not allow NQ to bankrupt us through this corrupt system while it burns our economy to the ground, and robs us of our homes and our way of life.

We will build an HQ on Alioth, and a space station, and provide asteroid mining ship designs to all newcomers who need them. This will take time, but we will not abandon our brothers and sisters as they struggle to make a home for themselves in Helios!

Post in this thread with your in game name if you want to join! We will show NQ that we won't stand for their attempts to enslave us all during out gameplay!
 

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6 hours ago, vylqun said:

You validate NQ by creating gameplay based on the tax system. Not the best way to protest something^^


I love how when I protested Dementor update people claimed I was just being a problem by not adapting. So then I adapt and then I am part of the problem for playing into NQ's hands. Seemingly lose/lose with people. They are angry when you have something, poke fun at you when you don't, cheezus... ?

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On 12/1/2021 at 7:42 AM, Creator said:

This is a call to all colonists, if you believe the UEF and Aphelia to be an illegitimate government like we do, then we invite you to join the "Tax Refugees". We will build an infrastructure to avoid the territory tax the empire has tried to place on us. We will not allow NQ to bankrupt us through this corrupt system while it burns our economy to the ground, and robs us of our homes and our way of life.

We will build an HQ on Alioth, and a space station, and provide asteroid mining ship designs to all newcomers who need them. This will take time, but we will not abandon our brothers and sisters as they struggle to make a home for themselves in Helios!

Post in this thread with your in game name if you want to join! We will show NQ that we won't stand for their attempts to enslave us all during out gameplay!
 

Judging by the vote you posted up, not sure everyone agrees with you.

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The qustion should be:

  • Does this improve quality of life in game?
  • Why dont taxes actually get used for anything in game?
  • Why is NQ forcing a speed of gameplay?
  • Why is NQ pushing people out of the game?
  • Why is NQ booting potential players from the game they need back as paying customers at launch?

 

Purging inactive players and all their hard work and opening up their property to looting is counter productive to their origional vision of help build a lasting civilization other people will experience before turning around and wanting to erase what they have made with taxes if they fall off the tredmill when NQ arbitrarily turns the speed up and people mug them when they fall off is a bad president to set when NQ could just pack up their stuff in golden BPs like they used to at the markets. If things are that bad that you have to go against your own mottos or principals to push this thing out the door its not going to end well.

 

Anyone remember when NQ was like hey we need to get rid of mining for performance and to make mining "LESS" "tedious before they turn around and made it like 200% more tedious by then taxing miners and giving quanta billionares/trillionaires the ability to mine with opperations that can produce more than a traditional miner could in a day automatically? Anyone remember how NQ flooded the economy with quanta from missions that justifies these taxes from their own inaction of unplugging the printing press?

 

Its not like we have any kind of in game government like the empire that has AI npcs and star destroyers enforcing their oppression on the galactic citizens or having the option for avoiding taxes and fighting the empire to clear out a planet or region from their oppression.

 

If we actually got something in return for paying taxes i would be for it if it had content added by paying it. Like I pay property tax, sales tax, carbon tax, core tax, or whatever else they want to tax me for in return for police NPCs, Military, Infrastructure, etc along with a mission system that works for the people that isnt just waypoint to waypoint but involved actual items instead of fictional components that do nothing for anyone.

 

The way I see it NQ squandered their resources and now its do or die time.

 

They could have made the mission system take taxes, buy the ore in the market, pay for missions, and then make actual content drivers that take the purchased ore, refine it, make parts, ship to a factory that can build NQ ships, then put them into action with player crews in some kind of group finder NQ space fleet of both players or NPCs to act as law enforcement, or military. Those who want the benefits of protection or benefit of NQs government can do so. Anyone who does not like it can leave that civilization as a rogue faction or factions and fight against NQ who is better funded, better armed, etc and actually have some kind of meaningful warfare that could be fun.

 

Instead they want to nail down people with taxes as some kind of Sci-fi neo space sharecropper for ore and taxed to death to prevent gameplay that should have opened up gameplay. 

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1 hour ago, Kobayashi said:

Judging by the vote you posted up, not sure everyone agrees with you.


Maybe you should have posted in that thread instead of derailing the one here then...

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6 minutes ago, Warlander said:

 

Votes dont work in a one sided attempt at a democracy if the dictatorship is plugging their ears and blinded by their vision quest.

Plus those dictators having a base of fanatics that would lick their boots no matter what they do...

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53 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

You are so dramatic, it is a game lol


It is a game for you. For others it is their social life, for some it is how they cope with stress, others it is how they express their creativity, for many it is a sense of progress and escape from an oppressive real life. You should be more thoughtful, for it is not on you to assign or decide how much we should value what we personally get out of DU.

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All I know is Aphelia is one mean AI <insert foul word here>.  She has taken everything from me a few times now and played really bad tricks about how my whole DU existence was a simulation. You can fight her and see her wrath. I'm still hoping she is not again messing with us and come next year we awake poor, talentless, and on an empty planet to start over. 

 

#StopTheWipeHype

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1 hour ago, Creator said:


It is a game for you. For others it is their social life, for some it is how they cope with stress, others it is how they express their creativity, for many it is a sense of progress and escape from an oppressive real life. You should be more thoughtful, for it is not on you to assign or decide how much we should value what we personally get out of DU.

But it is up to you to decide that because I enjoy the game I am a 'white knight'.... get over yourself.

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5 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

But it is up to you to decide that because I enjoy the game I am a 'white knight'.... get over yourself.


So you are just here to stir the crap, loud and clear captain.

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Let's say the T2 is all grabbed...

You have a new shiny tile... with 500L of T1, it runs for 24 hours (12,000L a day), for 7 days a week(84,000L a week.)

If ore holds at 50 per liter you get 4.2Mh a week, per tile.
If ore falls to bot prices at 25 per liter you get 2.1Mh a week, per tile.

Sure you get some bonus there for calibrating etc.... ( amount varies depending on RNG)

My question to you my friends is are you happy to be taxed at nearly 25% - 50% of everything you earn from you gameplay time?
Especially, When in a week you get what you used to get the same amount per tile as you could in just 210 clicks, So less than what 15 minutes of mining?
Plus that amount of ore is also worth half, could be worth a quarter of the value even in just a few more weeks?



 

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7 hours ago, Creator said:

My question to you my friends is are you happy to be taxed at nearly 25% - 50% of everything you earn from you gameplay time?

Do you just stand there and watch your auto miners for the whole time you are in game?  This is your PASSIVE income (pretty much), you can be earning that whilst you mine roids, or run missions, or sell ship, or salvage abandoned stuff.  Your example would be correct if it was the ONLY way to earn quanta in the game but it isnt.

Also, if you take that T1 ore and turn it into T1 elements, you make more money.  I have NEVER sold a single kl of T1 in the game, ever. 

...... Waits some rant that doesnt counter any of my points.

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26 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

Do you just stand there and watch your auto miners for the whole time you are in game?  This is your PASSIVE income (pretty much), you can be earning that whilst you mine roids, or run missions, or sell ship, or salvage abandoned stuff.  Your example would be correct if it was the ONLY way to earn quanta in the game but it isnt.

Also, if you take that T1 ore and turn it into T1 elements, you make more money.  I have NEVER sold a single kl of T1 in the game, ever. 

...... Waits some rant that doesnt counter any of my points.


1. No, I also don't want to play MU Nanny, it takes too much time away from building if I was to do it at scale to make it "worth it".
2. The gain from this is definitely substantially less than prior mining.

If you can't stop following me in every single thread with jabby little instigating remarks, I am going to first stop replying and if you keep at it I am going to start reporting.

I am NOT looking for a fight with you but I am getting REALLY tired of you stalking me in the forums and trying to push my buttons so you can get a reaction for you to report me.

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23 minutes ago, Creator said:


1. No, I also don't want to play MU Nanny, it takes too much time away from building if I was to do it at scale to make it "worth it".
2. The gain from this is definitely substantially less than prior mining.

If you can't stop following me in every single thread with jabby little instigating remarks, I am going to first stop replying and if you keep at it I am going to start reporting.

I am NOT looking for a fight with you but I am getting REALLY tired of you stalking me in the forums and trying to push my buttons so you can get a reaction for you to report me.

So I am not even allowed to post in your threads now?  Sorry but my points are legitimate and I will make them. So how about you just stick to making your points, and I will make mine? Rather than telling me where i can and cant post. Tough for me to "stop following you" when you literally make every forum post, which is the same thing, over and over and over.

Mining units have been added to give a semi passive income, you can still do other thing to make more money whilst you earn that income, so your point "My question to you my friends is are you happy to be taxed at nearly 25% - 50% of everything you earn from you gameplay time?" IS FALSE. AS it is not EVERYTHING you earn, unless you do nothing else to earn money in game.
 
Added to that you only have to pay taxes on tiles if you have more than 5 that you are using for mining or industry.  So if you are just building stuff on 5 tiles you dont need to pay ANY taxes anyway.

For what it is worth, I actually think the taxes are too high, I would probably half them.

Is red underlined your really angry font?

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24 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

Ahhh so anyone who enjoys the game is a white knight...... ok then.  I think I will leave you and your bulging neck veins to it and go watch Money Heist.  Life is far too short to be crying over pixels.

You are so dramatic, it is a game lol

But it is up to you to decide that because I enjoy the game I am a 'white knight'.... get over yourself.

...... Waits some rant that doesnt counter any of my points.

Nice font colour


Is red underlined your really angry font?


I can't stop you from replying in any thread, but all of the inflammatory comments above actually violate the forum rules, especially when you persist in doing it when I have told you to stop.

  • Posting off-topic replies or replies that are likely to drag the discussion off topic.
  • Trolling (provoking) people
  • Calling out other players or community members by name to shame them for actions or opinions you may disagree with. Naming and shaming is not tolerated.
  • Flaming (insulting, attacking) people. Picking fights isn’t a good way to make your point. It usually means you don’t have one and are just trying to cause trouble.

Last warning... either be decent or don't interact with me.

 

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25 minutes ago, Creator said:


I can't stop you from replying in any thread, but all of the inflammatory comments above actually violate the forum rules, especially when you persist in doing it when I have told you to stop.

  • Posting off-topic replies or replies that are likely to drag the discussion off topic.
  • Trolling (provoking) people
  • Calling out other players or community members by name to shame them for actions or opinions you may disagree with. Naming and shaming is not tolerated.
  • Flaming (insulting, attacking) people. Picking fights isn’t a good way to make your point. It usually means you don’t have one and are just trying to cause trouble.

Last warning... either be decent or don't interact with me.

 

So back to my points

- Autominers are a semi passive income, you can earn that income whilst doing other things, you ALSO earn that income whilst not even playing the game
- there are other ways to earn income, mining roids, doing missions, selling stuff, hopefully NQ will add more

So the argument that taxes are taking 50% of all your income only applies if you choose not to do any of the other things outlined above.  Also territory taxes only apply if to tiles you are using for either mining and or industry, unless you have more than 5 tiles.

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33 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

So back to my points

- Autominers are a semi passive income, you can earn that income whilst doing other things, you ALSO earn that income whilst not even playing the game
- there are other ways to earn income, mining roids, doing missions, selling stuff, hopefully NQ will add more

So the argument that taxes are taking 50% of all your income only applies if you choose not to do any of the other things outlined above.  Also territory taxes only apply if to tiles you are using for either mining and or industry, unless you have more than 5 tiles.


The issue overall for me is time... this week has been a rare exception as I have the week off as I transition between work.

- Autominers, at a scale to earn any income require significant time to optimized/maximize returns, which I don't/won't have.
- Roids take significant flight time, are limited to a weekend availability for best mining, and risk being emptied out when I usually can play later in the week.
- Selling designs was my primary source of income, however, people aren't really buying designs as the economic shock and adjustment has everyone hoarding quanta/resources.

- The best mission on Alioth takes about 30 minutes round trip for 170kh.
- The better pay missions off of Alioth take even more time that I don't have.

Additionally I can't industry on any tile that I choose build on if HQ'ed not paying taxes which means raw material is useless, and must be shipped from my Sanct tile which only provides me 300L hematite, and 86L of quartz... and hour. Plus I have to fly between my Sanct tile and Alioth, which takes time significant time. So either I have to pay people with money I am not really earning to haul it, or I have to haul it and it means I lose my time to build, plus more time surface harvesting rocks for fuel, cause I don't make the money to really buy a lot of fuel.

Plus the surface harvesting is very hard on my hands, and painful physically rl.

So when I don't have time, it is a reality for me personally, and others that play casually, or only really want to build that we do lose 50% of our income. Otherwise we lose our precious time we have to build. The new update has punished builders and casuals, and those with limited TIME.

This is a very real problem for Dual Universe, as this game won't scale if it is only accessible to those who can play every day, or play all weekend. The demographic it attracts is generally 30+ meaning most of us work, have families, and other obligations, etc. 

If I had 200L of every T1 on my Sanct tile, and could relocate my Sanct tile to collaborate with other like minded builders, then you would no longer see me on this forum, cause I would have what I need to play like I did before. 

I don't really want or need much, but what little I need and want, I cannot get, and what I had has been ripped out of my hands.

My building project which I was forced to tear down was a stress coping mechanism for me, not just a game. It is how I managed my anger and stress so I could actually function like a normal person. I respect that for you this is just a game and a bunch of pixels, but for me, this is my zen garden... right now that garden is on fire... and I have no alternative method for keeping in balance.

Actually trying to seek mental health resources because, I didn't realize how much I crutched on this stupid game to keep myself together.

Because my work is working with victims of violent crimes, sexual assault, and domestic abuse. You can only hear so many stories of rape, and molestation and other heavy things without some sort of outlet, a person really isn't meant to deal with that level of trauma on a daily basis. Right now the worst part of it is, like I can't go out and socialize with friends cause when I try I am having trouble regulating my stress, cause my zen garden is gone.

But that is all me and my crap, and I am trying to work it out, but you know like I am not the only person that needs this game to keep solid, to hold themselves together, some people are disabled, have health issues, unemployed, isolated, whatever is going on in their life, so they come in here to their own builds to escape and forget for a moment the stress. 

Now our stress relief has been turned into a chore by Devs with a weekly timer... 

I would be happy to go back to sanct if the tile had just the little resources I need to quietly build and not be on here angry on the forums, hurting because I had something good taken.




 

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39 minutes ago, Creator said:


The issue overall for me is time... this week has been a rare exception as I have the week off as I transition between work.

- Autominers, at a scale to earn any income require significant time to optimized/maximize returns, which I don't/won't have.
- Roids take significant flight time, are limited to a weekend availability for best mining, and risk being emptied out when I usually can play later in the week.
- Selling designs was my primary source of income, however, people aren't really buying designs as the economic shock and adjustment has everyone hoarding quanta/resources.

- The best mission on Alioth takes about 30 minutes round trip for 170kh.
- The better pay missions off of Alioth take even more time that I don't have.

Additionally I can't industry on any tile that I choose build on if HQ'ed not paying taxes which means raw material is useless, and must be shipped from my Sanct tile which only provides me 300L hematite, and 86L of quartz... and hour. Plus I have to fly between my Sanct tile and Alioth, which takes time significant time. So either I have to pay people with money I am not really earning to haul it, or I have to haul it and it means I lose my time to build, plus more time surface harvesting rocks for fuel, cause I don't make the money to really buy a lot of fuel.

Plus the surface harvesting is very hard on my hands, and painful physically rl.

So when I don't have time, it is a reality for me personally, and others that play casually, or only really want to build that we do lose 50% of our income. Otherwise we lose our precious time we have to build. The new update has punished builders and casuals, and those with limited TIME.

This is a very real problem for Dual Universe, as this game won't scale if it is only accessible to those who can play every day, or play all weekend. The demographic it attracts is generally 30+ meaning most of us work, have families, and other obligations, etc. 

If I had 200L of every T1 on my Sanct tile, and could relocate my Sanct tile to collaborate with other like minded builders, then you would no longer see me on this forum, cause I would have what I need to play like I did before. 

I don't really want or need much, but what little I need and want, I cannot get, and what I had has been ripped out of my hands.

My building project which I was forced to tear down was a stress coping mechanism for me, not just a game. It is how I managed my anger and stress so I could actually function like a normal person. I respect that for you this is just a game and a bunch of pixels, but for me, this is my zen garden... right now that garden is on fire... and I have no alternative method for keeping in balance.

Actually trying to seek mental health resources because, I didn't realize how much I crutched on this stupid game to keep myself together.

Because my work is working with victims of violent crimes, sexual assault, and domestic abuse. You can only hear so many stories of rape, and molestation and other heavy things without some sort of outlet, a person really isn't meant to deal with that level of trauma on a daily basis. Right now the worst part of it is, like I can't go out and socialize with friends cause when I try I am having trouble regulating my stress, cause my zen garden is gone.

But that is all me and my crap, and I am trying to work it out, but you know like I am not the only person that needs this game to keep solid, to hold themselves together, some people are disabled, have health issues, unemployed, isolated, whatever is going on in their life, so they come in here to their own builds to escape and forget for a moment the stress. 

Now our stress relief has been turned into a chore by Devs with a weekly timer... 

I would be happy to go back to sanct if the tile had just the little resources I need to quietly build and not be on here angry on the forums, hurting because I had something good 

 

I get your complaints, but im sorry you lose all credibility from me when u try to bring your real world issues in it.  This is a game.

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6 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

I get your complaints, but im sorry you lose all credibility from me when u try to bring your real world issues in it.  This is a game.


Whelp, not everything in life is neat little segmented boxes. For you it is a game, for others it is more. What it is for you doesn't automatically discount it as more for others. There was a lot in that post so take what you want from it, and discard the rest...

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1 hour ago, Creator said:


The issue overall for me is time... this week has been a rare exception as I have the week off as I transition between work.

- Autominers, at a scale to earn any income require significant time to optimized/maximize returns, which I don't/won't have.
- Roids take significant flight time, are limited to a weekend availability for best mining, and risk being emptied out when I usually can play later in the week.
- Selling designs was my primary source of income, however, people aren't really buying designs as the economic shock and adjustment has everyone hoarding quanta/resources.

- The best mission on Alioth takes about 30 minutes round trip for 170kh.
- The better pay missions off of Alioth take even more time that I don't have.

....

I would be happy to go back to sanct if the tile had just the little resources I need to quietly build and not be on here angry on the forums, hurting because I had something good taken.
 

Didnt you used to spend time mining though?  So instead of using that time to mine the ground, use it to mine roids?  Ok you might not get as much but that is supplemented by your autominers, which work even when you are not playing.  I do agree there are things they can do to balance it (increase autominer yields, decrease taxes, increase the quantity of safe zone roids) but I dont think the system is as flawed as you are making out.  

Genuinely interested to find out how roid mining is now, I used to have no issue getting really good returns from it, I used to do it RATHER than ground mine as it was so much easier to find the ore.  Only playing casually now, so dont really need to do it.

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