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Full Wipe? or Why I would return to DU after Release


JayleBreak

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Q: Why (after 2+ years) would I return to DU after the rumoured full wipe prior release?
A: Because DU would feel new because of the following:
 

  • There is a "New" Alioth
    1.  Aphelia declares Alioth a Sanctuary (the other one becomes Moon 3), and all planets/moons have a 3SU "Safe Zone" enforced by Aphelia. PvP exists everywhere else. Note: current Alioth has too many water territories, just swap the name with Sanctuary and move the Ark.
    2.  New Alioth has a central market at the Ark which is restricted. Satellite markets provide access to the central market and are distributed such that no territory is more than 30km away from one (about 60 markets in total). Thus, no need to go further than the local market to trade.
    3.  12 regional markets (reachable by teleport from other regional markets, each regional market has 4 satellite markets with teleports within the region) provide free, safe, shuttle service to the corresponding market on Moon 3.
    4. All Basic schematics should be found on Alioth for negligible prices (~1Kh). All Uncommon schematics should be found on Alioth Moon 3 for reasonable prices (~50Kh). Note: Next to building, Industry is the most widely enjoyed content that DU provides (it also provides an incentive to build). Make the early stages broadly accessible.
    5. Add a new moon to Alioth (nothing special). Assign one Tier 2 ore to each moon. The T2 ore should be found on each territory of the smaller moons and are findable (e.g. 1 in 10 territories) on Moon 3. No higher tier ore should be found on Alioth or its moons.
  • Helios is smaller
    1. Move all the planets closer to Alioth. Reduce their distance from Alioth by at least half.
  • Make No Promises, but Provide a Vision for the Future (let us hope)
    1. Here is a story: Colonists revolt against Aphelia's heavy hand (and taxes). One by one, Aphelia withdraws her planetary protection until only Alioth and its moons remain. As Aphelia withdraws her protection, territory warfare brakes out between colonists.


All of this could be done with what DU software provides today, but it does require work so it can't be done today, or even a week, but certainly by the time of release. In my opinion, it would be enough to get the majority of people who have drifted away to come back and try DU again.

 

 

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Alioth (Safe) - T1 & T2 (25 SU safe zone for space stations)
-----------------------------------
Thades (Pvp) - T3 & below
Jado(Pvp) - T4 & Below
Feli(Pvp) - T5 & below

Remove everything else, including Sanctuary, reduce the solar system from 500 SU to 100 SU - cause space is boring as hell.

1. Further improve vegetation and make the planets feel more alien, right now they are nothing more than boring second earth features, huge missed opportunity.
2. Help yourself increase revenue by opening up an element skins store instead of this recruit an alt bs.
 

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Its going to take a lot of work to turn this into a game worth playing/paying. If NQ thinks doing as little as possible to make content is going to make them money they are mistaken. Unless they actually start adding MMO features its barely a game, let alone a PvP, as much as it is a building game. Just adding bandaid features as content on goes so far with nothing actually to do or purpose to what you build.

 

Unless they turn it into a faction based planetary break away civs and I have a whole planet to fight and protected by the people on my planet with each planetary system having a bubble only for their people and still being able to fight my planet in open space with piracy as an option and some kind of combat missions, industry missions, mining missions, logistic missions, etc like every other baisc MMO on the market you can think of this random pvp with no conisquences does nothing for me and I love PvP games.

 

The game just needs more substance and yet practical limits, sinks, how much you can put down in cores, fixing or closing sinks, whatever that is what they have now can easily be used to turn this game around within minimal additions. Its just they think their origional vision is still worth jumping off a cliff for.

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7 hours ago, JayleBreak said:

Q: Why (after 2+ years) would I return to DU after the rumoured full wipe prior release?

A: Why I (after 1+ years of paying for subscriptions) would leave DU permanently if a full wipe happens and would look at the possibility of taking legal action for the lost time=money and actual lost money.

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1 hour ago, Creator said:

I think the fact that I spend so much time now since update on forums vs. building like I was... says a lot about the impact. Forums are now more fun than Chore Universe.

Yep.. just making things harder with nothing added and leaves me asking "why bother" when I log in and start something. Why gather ore? Why build that ship? Why build anything? just to pay tax?

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10 hours ago, JayleBreak said:

Q: Why (after 2+ years) would I return to DU after the rumoured full wipe prior release?

 

I guess this is NQ's problem really.  Do they make the game for the people who have stayed and kept paying subs or do they risk alienating those people (by deleting all their progress and erasing the history/shared story they created) to try and recover the ones who haven't played for a long time?

Trying to recover the old players at the expense of losing the current ones seems like a risky strategy to me -- the ones who left once will probably be harder to retain than the ones who were resilient enough to stick with it through all the changes and problems.  If it were me I'd be trying to keep hold of the current set of players rather than re-writing the game for people who don't play it.

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2 hours ago, Cergorach said:

A: Why I (after 1+ years of paying for subscriptions) would leave DU permanently if a full wipe happens and would look at the possibility of taking legal action for the lost time=money and actual lost money.

1)  As far as I am aware you can only sue for your loss.  You would have to prove that you have lost money.

2)  Any reasonable court would conclude that you played the game during your time of subscription so you got what you paid for.

3) There really are not enough players currently in the game for NQ to care if they lose them.  You and I are playing an alpha and we are being treated as alpha players.  The .23 industry wipe and the latest mining/scan wipe prove that.  Many large role playing infrastructure is about to be removed ........ so why would you build anything?

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11 hours ago, JayleBreak said:

Q: Why (after 2+ years) would I return to DU after the rumoured full wipe prior release?
A: Because DU would feel new because of the following:
 

  • There is a "New" Alioth
    1.  Aphelia declares Alioth a Sanctuary (the other one becomes Moon 3), and all planets/moons have a 3SU "Safe Zone" enforced by Aphelia. PvP exists everywhere else. Note: current Alioth has too many water territories, just swap the name with Sanctuary and move the Ark.
    2.  New Alioth has a central market at the Ark which is restricted. Satellite markets provide access to the central market and are distributed such that no territory is more than 30km away from one (about 60 markets in total). Thus, no need to go further than the local market to trade.
    3.  12 regional markets (reachable by teleport from other regional markets, each regional market has 4 satellite markets with teleports within the region) provide free, safe, shuttle service to the corresponding market on Moon 3.
    4. All Basic schematics should be found on Alioth for negligible prices (~1Kh). All Uncommon schematics should be found on Alioth Moon 3 for reasonable prices (~50Kh). Note: Next to building, Industry is the most widely enjoyed content that DU provides (it also provides an incentive to build). Make the early stages broadly accessible.
    5. Add a new moon to Alioth (nothing special). Assign one Tier 2 ore to each moon. The T2 ore should be found on each territory of the smaller moons and are findable (e.g. 1 in 10 territories) on Moon 3. No higher tier ore should be found on Alioth or its moons.
  • Helios is smaller
    1. Move all the planets closer to Alioth. Reduce their distance from Alioth by at least half.
  • Make No Promises, but Provide a Vision for the Future (let us hope)
    1. Here is a story: Colonists revolt against Aphelia's heavy hand (and taxes). One by one, Aphelia withdraws her planetary protection until only Alioth and its moons remain. As Aphelia withdraws her protection, territory warfare brakes out between colonists.


All of this could be done with what DU software provides today, but it does require work so it can't be done today, or even a week, but certainly by the time of release. In my opinion, it would be enough to get the majority of people who have drifted away to come back and try DU again.

 

 

 

The satellite market idea would be better served imo this way:

 

(all the following appear on the market search screen)

 

Each tile is inherently loaded with a market interface. Any player can access their market container for that hex with the same 'J' hotkey we all use now to search the market, no physical terminal needed (really it would be the container for the planet with associations to a hex to prevent teleporting things all over the planet, but thats database stuffs),  just like they had accessed a terminal in todays marketplaces. If the tile is owned by a player/org they get a small transaction fee for any business conducted there. This would help encourage players to build POI's and trading posts. You prevent using this for permanent storage by having a time limit on how long items can be stored before they are deleted by Aphilia. 

 

So long as any item set for sale in any hex appears in the market search screen, then this would prevent congestion at some tiny number of market places on a planet. There would be a sub economy of people running around collecting lower priced small quantity sales at various personal hexes etc, to transport them for a markup to bigger more popular POI hexes. 

 

Also of note - remove all ore bots from the game forever and never ever let us catch you thinking you can somehow manage the economy better then players again. Sell your little schematics and control money inflows to game world (with missions / basic income only) and sinks like taxes and leave the pricing of goods and ore to the players period.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Underhook said:

1)  As far as I am aware you can only sue for your loss.  You would have to prove that you have lost money.

2)  Any reasonable court would conclude that you played the game during your time of subscription so you got what you paid for.

3) There really are not enough players currently in the game for NQ to care if they lose them.  You and I are playing an alpha and we are being treated as alpha players.  The .23 industry wipe and the latest mining/scan wipe prove that.  Many large role playing infrastructure is about to be removed ........ so why would you build anything?

I agree it would be difficult to get anywhere legally.

 

But at the same time, here is what NQ is selling when a new subscription player wants to join. So a wipe would be disingenuous at best.

du_persistent.png

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13 hours ago, JayleBreak said:

Q: Why (after 2+ years) would I return to DU after the rumoured full wipe prior release?
A: Because DU would feel new because of the following:
 

  • There is a "New" Alioth
    1.  Aphelia declares Alioth a Sanctuary (the other one becomes Moon 3), and all planets/moons have a 3SU "Safe Zone" enforced by Aphelia. PvP exists everywhere else. Note: current Alioth has too many water territories, just swap the name with Sanctuary and move the Ark.
    2.  New Alioth has a central market at the Ark which is restricted. Satellite markets provide access to the central market and are distributed such that no territory is more than 30km away from one (about 60 markets in total). Thus, no need to go further than the local market to trade.
    3.  12 regional markets (reachable by teleport from other regional markets, each regional market has 4 satellite markets with teleports within the region) provide free, safe, shuttle service to the corresponding market on Moon 3.
    4. All Basic schematics should be found on Alioth for negligible prices (~1Kh). All Uncommon schematics should be found on Alioth Moon 3 for reasonable prices (~50Kh). Note: Next to building, Industry is the most widely enjoyed content that DU provides (it also provides an incentive to build). Make the early stages broadly accessible.
    5. Add a new moon to Alioth (nothing special). Assign one Tier 2 ore to each moon. The T2 ore should be found on each territory of the smaller moons and are findable (e.g. 1 in 10 territories) on Moon 3. No higher tier ore should be found on Alioth or its moons.
  • Helios is smaller
    1. Move all the planets closer to Alioth. Reduce their distance from Alioth by at least half.
  • Make No Promises, but Provide a Vision for the Future (let us hope)
    1. Here is a story: Colonists revolt against Aphelia's heavy hand (and taxes). One by one, Aphelia withdraws her planetary protection until only Alioth and its moons remain. As Aphelia withdraws her protection, territory warfare brakes out between colonists.


All of this could be done with what DU software provides today, but it does require work so it can't be done today, or even a week, but certainly by the time of release. In my opinion, it would be enough to get the majority of people who have drifted away to come back and try DU again.

 

 

 

 

I've had similar ideas, Tho i think should be Alioth and moons safe zone, then 6 planets.  And only 1 far like 2hr thats an ice planet.  3-4 planets within 30min to 1hr.  That way u can do away with warp.  Then you can also upgrade the radar system and use taht for future content., like finding NPC wrecks to salvage, anomolies.

 

Ive also thought as others have said have 1 gas giant. with HUGE gravity if u get too close, that pulls you at 10g or even more as u get close.  And have like 14 moons around them with some high value ore.  Great place for pvp, and exploration and some danger. 

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2 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

I agree it would be difficult to get anywhere legally.

 

But at the same time, here is what NQ is selling when a new subscription player wants to join. So a wipe would disingenuous at best.

du_persistent.png

Yes disingenuous indeed.  I'm not saying that what NQ is doing is ethical in any way.  Really, If I just took over NQ.  I would say, we stuffed up and declared beta buts its still alpha, so, we are now returning to alpha, everything is subject to change.

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12 minutes ago, Underhook said:

Yes disingenuous indeed.  I'm not saying that what NQ is doing is ethical in any way.  Really, If I just took over NQ.  I would say, we stuffed up and declared beta buts its still alpha, so, we are now returning to alpha, everything is subject to change.


Would kill the game... Just like they did with this update for builders...
Who has time to build/create when you have to nanny your MU daily.

For the false advertising bin...
 

bs.jpg

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15 hours ago, Creator said:

1. Further improve vegetation and make the planets feel more alien, right now they are nothing more than boring second earth features, huge missed opportunity.

This!
Its really a shame of how "flat" the planets look at the moment.
Sure there are some nice places but overall everything is very flat.
It looks like the default landscape when you load "WorldCreator".

If i remember right there has been a devblog of DU where they show what is possible with new Landscape generators and some handwork like placing rivers which are bending their way through epic mountains. And some unique Craters here and there.
I was so hyped about that.

I am not sure about the technical background of DU-Worlds.
But i wonder if they could just use a third party program like "World creator 3" to shape cool Planets and then get the data they could use in DU.

And yes i know the planets are HUGE and it will take some time even if most of it could be semi-randomly generated. But i mean they could take their time for it.
 

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5 hours ago, Leniver said:

We don't want a wipe.

Currently early game is completely broken, the only think keeping us in the game is because we have already some asset and ore.


Kinda disagree.
Currently i do a completly new start (Besides pilot talents) on jago.
In one Weekend i already got with Missions enough money to get everything i need to build my first solid ship.
Indeed i would say its way too easy at the moment as there are so many warp drives and it cost me almost nothing to hire a hauler from allioth to jago.

But it depents on the expectations you have.
Mining is difficulty now. But do i really need 50k Ore per day for what i want to do?
No.

And if you have a ambitious project which needs more then 50k Ore per day then you arent playing alone anyway which will make things easier.

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5 hours ago, Leniver said:

We don't want a wipe.

Currently early game is completely broken, the only think keeping us in the game is because we have already some asset and ore.

 

oh yes we want a wipe

yes the early game is more than broken now, not only the early game, will need some enormous rebalancing

 

if we all start again from scratch, industries will be extremely slow to develop, long space distance exploration for finding better than T2 ores will be a very hard task since we wont have territory scanners (needing T1/T2 and T3 ores) to check which tile on Alioth have Malachite therefore to be able to make space fuel, unless you want spend hundreds of hours of your time mining 20L skittles on the surface to fuel up a space speeder

 

but too many players have gotten effortlessly insanely rich using the game exploits (free schematics worth millions after patch, VR missions allowing players to make more than hundreds millions quantas per mission, duplication glithes etc...), and it is those players now are playing with broken economy mechanics, because they are the only ones now well equipped for feeding the markets, where solo players and smaller orgs pay the highest cost, where rich will keep on pressuring to get richer and richer, and new players and poorest will never be able to get out of it and surely give up on the game

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16 hours ago, Cergorach said:

A: Why I (after 1+ years of paying for subscriptions) would leave DU permanently if a full wipe happens and would look at the possibility of taking legal action for the lost time=money and actual lost money.

 

Remember this is Beta, and we all signed up for this. Signed up knowing there will be a partial or full wipe, and this has never been hidden by NQ

But now is tending more toward full wipe, because game economy has become far more broken beyond possible rebalance

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I only decided to pay and play because of the promise of no wipe.

 

I would be very unhappy with a wipe as I don't think I could be bothered to re-invest my time doing everything again, so game over for me. Maybe that is selfish, but it is how I feel.

 

Exploits should be dealt with by NQ (and maybe have been on a case by case basis) and not used as justification to punish everyone who has put in effort to build things and earn wealth.

 

Some people would still be at a huge advantage even after a "full wipe" particularly those who specialise in LUA related offerings.


Please stop pushing for a wipe just because you are unhappy. If you have not been playing for all this time isn't it hugely selfish to think you should be on a level playing field with people who have been playing?

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On 11/28/2021 at 9:33 PM, JayleBreak said:

Q: Why (after 2+ years) would I return to DU after the rumoured full wipe prior release?
A: Because DU would feel new because of the following:
 

  • There is a "New" Alioth
    1.  Aphelia declares Alioth a Sanctuary (the other one becomes Moon 3), and all planets/moons have a 3SU "Safe Zone" enforced by Aphelia. PvP exists everywhere else. Note: current Alioth has too many water territories, just swap the name with Sanctuary and move the Ark.
    2.  New Alioth has a central market at the Ark which is restricted. Satellite markets provide access to the central market and are distributed such that no territory is more than 30km away from one (about 60 markets in total). Thus, no need to go further than the local market to trade.
    3.  12 regional markets (reachable by teleport from other regional markets, each regional market has 4 satellite markets with teleports within the region) provide free, safe, shuttle service to the corresponding market on Moon 3.
    4. All Basic schematics should be found on Alioth for negligible prices (~1Kh). All Uncommon schematics should be found on Alioth Moon 3 for reasonable prices (~50Kh). Note: Next to building, Industry is the most widely enjoyed content that DU provides (it also provides an incentive to build). Make the early stages broadly accessible.
    5. Add a new moon to Alioth (nothing special). Assign one Tier 2 ore to each moon. The T2 ore should be found on each territory of the smaller moons and are findable (e.g. 1 in 10 territories) on Moon 3. No higher tier ore should be found on Alioth or its moons.
  • Helios is smaller
    1. Move all the planets closer to Alioth. Reduce their distance from Alioth by at least half.
  • Make No Promises, but Provide a Vision for the Future (let us hope)
    1. Here is a story: Colonists revolt against Aphelia's heavy hand (and taxes). One by one, Aphelia withdraws her planetary protection until only Alioth and its moons remain. As Aphelia withdraws her protection, territory warfare brakes out between colonists.


All of this could be done with what DU software provides today, but it does require work so it can't be done today, or even a week, but certainly by the time of release. In my opinion, it would be enough to get the majority of people who have drifted away to come back and try DU again.

 

 

 

It is nice to have given a story behind some remodeling concepts, since NQ has completely given up on the lore since alpha 1

but they are too few and weak here for validating a long absence return

 

Planets and moons design are way too simple and boring, nothing sexy that makes you want build your base in this specific spot because of a unique piece of landscape which make this spot in your eyes different from others

 

And i would not say Helios is too large, since we are supposed to evolve in a multi planetary systems environment, but space travel speed way too slow for a said "scifi" space  game!

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Stop worrying about what other people have and start worrying more about what you can have.    It sounds like golem saying,"They have more then me, take their stuff away".

2 minutes ago, Jeronimo said:

 

Remember this is Beta, and we all signed up for this. Signed up knowing there will be a partial or full wipe, and this has never been hidden by NQ

But now is tending more toward full wipe, because game economy has become far more broken beyond possible rebalance

Not true. When they released in beta it was said there would be no more wipes.  Why would anyone pay a monthly sub to beta test a wipe?  If they want to wipe all beta accounts. Sure fine. But pay accounts. Unless they are refunding, no.

 

Speaking of which if they do wipe. I dont think I will return. I mean maybe if on release. the game runs great, there is AVA, territory warfare, PVE, Power systems,  all the things DU is supposed to be.  But we know that is not going to be the case.  So playing after a wipe would be like playing now. only the promise of the game being good in the future. Except after a wipe you no longer have anything invested into the game, So walking away then no harm done. 

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@Jeronimo convenient for you to pick one point in time and call that the definitive answer, when NQ has flip flopped dozens of times on not only wiping, but autominers, agg functionality, etc etc etc.... Did you ever think about the fact that there are such heated disputes between us on what NQ says is because their piss poor ability to be consistent in their message? 

If these guys were in charge of a FEMA disaster one half of us would believe everyone was dead, and the other half of us that everyone survived, cause they are wishy washy.

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1 hour ago, RugesV said:

Stop worrying about what other people have and start worrying more about what you can have.    It sounds like golem saying,"They have more then me, take their stuff away".


Its more like: "They have too much, so i have too much as well"
I have mined in the first weeks of beta almost 100 Million quanta. Havent recovered from that until today.
Large containers full of elements i hodl and will never be able to use because its too much.

If i wouldnt force myself to start a new game by discipline i would never ever have to earn money in one way or another.
Could inflate the market right now with the elements i hide. ?

Yea, i think we need a wipe.

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