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Territory Scanner shuts down when you get too far away - Intel vs AMD


Talonclaw

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Hello, myself and another Ryzen user need only get about 3km (or less) away from a Territory Scanner before it switches off / unloads from its own process.
But, a very trustworthy friend named Gunhand who has an Intel.. can travel in excess of 25km and they'll still be on when he gets back.
Someone else with an intel on discord mentioned he can fly into space and back, it'll still be scanning.
2 other users in discord did the experiment, intel users, they too had no limit to distance before the scanner turned off.
Could someone please clear this up? I don't know enough about Hyperthreading vs Multithreading to form a theory, i certainly could be wrong about the cause.
Though there is, a serious problem here, the harsh contrast of the evidence is very compelling.

If you test it, be sure to travel at least 10km from the scanner and back, so it's a clean result.
The scanner needs to be scanning, not presenting scan results.

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As an pc expert, i can not imagine that the used cpu has something to do with that. Hyperthreading vs Multithreading i guess you have no clue what this means. My englisch is not so best so i can´t explain it detailed enough but there are several Wikepedia pages regarding this topic. 

My first thought after reading your post was that your problem has something to do with your charakter skills. But i play just a week and have no idea.

 

Regards

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Ryzen user here on both my main rig and my laptop. I have experienced the same behavior. I just thought it was how the game works. I never thought it had anything to do with my hardware.

 

I honestly thought it might be the container link distance or something. 

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42 minutes ago, miaminice said:

Hyperthreading vs Multithreading i guess you have no clue what this means.

You guess wrong, i researched it many years ago.
Thank you for the toxicity and the unconstructive commitment to the thread.
I was a `PC expert` by 1994 and began in 1986 but i haven't owned an intel since the 486.
I would humour you and explain the thought process behind, is it a problem with multitasking but i don't respect you enough to try.
It may be a function that DU utilises in the Intel coreset that AMD doesn't have, who knows.. not me.

Hey Vhae :)
yeah me too.. i was always annoyed and have had to stick to triscanner ships but learnt a few days ago that my friend with his M core that launches pods.. can launch way more than 3 and have a complete scan.
I would like to build a pod ship please

2500 scans with a triscanner took a long time

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  • Talonclaw changed the title to Territory Scanner shuts down when you get too far away - Intel vs AMD
4 hours ago, Talonclaw said:

But, a very trustworthy friend named Gunhand who has an Intel.. can travel in excess of 25km and they'll still be on when he gets back.

Yesterday flew 50km away while scanners where active. When I came back in 10 minutes, they still were active.

 

Not sure about your guess about hardware, but I have Intel, so it kinda matches your point.

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As the afore mentioned Gunhand I can concur the fact that I am able to travel great distances from my scanners and still return to find them scanning. I tested it properly yesterday and was 50km plus from the scanner and returned to see it still working. If video proof is required I am more than happy to post it.

 

As to if it is an Intel vs AMD issue I have no conclusive evidence to point to it.

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1 minute ago, Gunhand said:

As the afore mentioned Gunhand I can concur the fact that I am able to travel great distances from my scanners and still return to find them scanning. I tested it properly yesterday and was 50km plus from the scanner and returned to see it still working. If video proof is required I am more than happy to post it.

 

As to if it is an Intel vs AMD issue I have no conclusive evidence to point to it.

 

You having AMD would be strong evidence that it's not the CPU brand... 

 

What do you have?

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1 minute ago, Vhaeyne said:

 

You having AMD would be strong evidence that it's not the CPU brand... 

 

What do you have?

Intel.

 

If enough Intel users report the same thing and enough AMD users report they can't then that will be the evidence to make a judgement.

 

That being said, which is the correct way that the scanners are supposed to work? Are they supposed to shutdown after you travel a km or two or are they supposed to have unlimited distance.

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Just now, Gunhand said:

Intel.

 

If enough Intel users report the same thing and enough AMD users report they can't then that will be the evidence to make a judgement.

 

That being said, which is the correct way that the scanners are supposed to work? Are they supposed to shutdown after you travel a km or two or are they supposed to have unlimited distance.

 

Should my refrigerator stop running when I leave town? Not if it wants to come with... 

 

Jokes aside, I would like to know the answer too.

My industry stays going all the time. I feel like scanners should be the same.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Vhaeyne said:

My industry stays going all the time. I feel like scanners should be the same.

Difference here is that industry runs on server-side, while scanners run on client.
So unless they make scanners server-side there can't be same behaviour (e.g. they will stop with client reboot even if they fix distance issue)

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2 minutes ago, Vhaeyne said:

 

Should my refrigerator stop running when I leave town? Not if it wants to come with... 

 

Jokes aside, I would like to know the answer too.

My industry stays going all the time. I feel like scanners should be the same.

 

 

Though now that it has been pointed out to me that not everyone is able to do this it puts me at a serious advantage to other players and as much as I may probably be shooting myself in the foot if it gets patched out. I use an M Core with 13 singular pods with scanners attached to it. With Demeter and the new way that ore spawns in clusters that depreciate the further away from the centre you get I can cover massive areas and map clusters very easily in a short space of time. If it is indeed AMD users that can't do this then it would be entirely unfair to them as the best they can do is drop a tri-scanner and wait.

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As an afterthought to myself. I play mostly day to day solo and my efforts are my own. I'm just one guy. However if you applied the same logic and methods to large well funded orgs they could map a planet very very quickly.

 

With something like this either everyone should have the ability to do it or no one.

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Just now, W1zard said:

Difference here is that industry runs on server-side, while scanners run on client.

If by "runs" you mean the server records when you started an industry element and what the job was - then sure. But the actual results and the cascading effects are not computed until some player (client) comes within range of the construct (which is probably why links can't span constructs). A detector triggering a programming board to run is another example of this way of operating.


And yes, I see no reason why scanners (which are deployed in constructs) can't operate the same way. Perhaps the client that started the scan job has to (or did before Demeter)  compute a lot of data (node sizes, locations etc) and upload it and that stopped if you moved away from the construct. But now all that needs to be stored on the server is the result of a random number generation for a tile (if even that - it could be purely algorithmic with the tile ID seeding the random number generator).

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There is no logic reason why AMD vs Intel should matter for normal multi-threading (software). Especially for some in game function like territory scanning.

But then again we are talking about DU..

 

Have you tried manually changing the in-game settings for increasing or decreasing the number of CPU cores used?

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i was scanning with two seperate ships yesterday and had no issues with the distance. could get more than 5km away and was further away in the past and the scanner still ran when i came back -> running the first and only intel ( i7 6700k) of my live

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Can some more folks post specific CPU model numbers instead of just Intel vs. AMD?

Over the weekend I'll try to reproduce it with my Intel i7-5820K and AMD 4800U.

It might be a generation thing with the AMDs though, I've heard some streamers complaining about massive DU performance issues on their AMD earlier gen. I have to admit that DU performance isn't great on the 4800U, but always thought this was due to the integrated graphics...

 

Very interesting subject btw!

 

I'm also wondering how DU will handle the new Alder Lake big-core/small-core setup.

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I have an Intel i5 processor and had a scan canceled when I  walked about ~2km away. This happened about 2 weeks ago. Behaviour may have changed with Demeter, so I suspect only reports since its release should be considered.

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This post is in 2 parts. I recommend scrolling to the edit.
 

11 hours ago, Cergorach said:

Can some more folks post specific CPU model numbers instead of just Intel vs. AMD?

Good idea, the only contradictions on this thread so far are a Ryzen 9 and an Intel 5
one is a very new Ryzen and the other a 2009 Intel.
If there's any truth in this, the contradictions seem to point towards something modern in the architecture that Ryzen have only just caught up with.
R9 and R5 both have the same set of extensions, so it's not that.
Mine is a Ryzen 5 3600

 

10 hours ago, JayleBreak said:

Behaviour may have changed with Demeter, so I suspect only reports since its release should be considered.


I should have considered that but can attest that although i haven't tested it since the patch, a colleague with the same CPU has.
So R5 3600 is affected unless, it has nothing to do with the CPU
a support ticket on the issue has been filed and this thread has been provided.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT / 2nd post
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tested this myself just now, with highly different results compared to pre-demeter;
0600-0700 UTC
1 - Flew 10km away from scanner flew back, it was still running
2 - Flew 10km away from scanner, got out, walked around for 1 min, flew back, it was still running.
3 - Flew 30km into space, got out for a space walk, didn't realise cockpits eject you when u do that in space.(upgraded S core now that NQ finally sorted the cockpits HUD).  The jet fell beneath me, i was floating unable to reach it or turn on the jetpack for some reason, did a force respawn.. walked 20 metres back to the scanner, which was still running. (So even through a quick load screen it was still running).
4 - Flew to District 6 started scanner, flew 10km away, got out for 1 min then returned, scanner still running.
5 - Flew to Madis, tested, still no problem.
6 - Flew to Teoma and switched on 3 of them.. 10km and back. all still on.
 

12 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

If we assume it has anything to do with the client software at all, network performance would be the only thing that makes any sense.


Judging by the previous posts, there clearly is a pattern at play between AMD and Intel but im beginning to suspect that what CPU you have affected network performance if not now, then before
Which is something i know nothing about.
My scanners used to shut off, they no longer seem to. Yet for others the problem is still there.

One of my colleagues told me that for them, they'd return to the triscanner, one or two of the scanners would be off but not all of them.
which i feel also supports the network performance hypothesis (failed to handshake), tho it could be something else. bit of a rabbithole.
From another user in discord
 

Quote

before Demeter, my scanners always turned off when I moved away. After Demeter it hasn't happened once...


we need dev intervention if people are still suffering the problem.

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I'm not sure that this has anything to do with intel vs AMD at all. I think it's more likely to be game playing technique and you just found one observable difference and attributed the issue to it.

 

What I found with the territory scanners is that if your PC is doing the simulation for the construct and you move more than a few KM away (2 perhaps, I can't remember?) then when your PC stops doing the simulation of the construct it generates a 'movement' which stops the scan cycle.  However if you can get your PC to stop simulating the object before you start the scanner then you can move as far away as you like without losing anything.

 

Whether or not the object is being simulated seems to depend on how you deploy it and what it last did.  If you just deploy an object down on a flat surface it usually doesn't get simulated.  So you're OK to scan.  But sometimes it gets deployed on a slope, part of it clips into the ground, it gets deployed a bit above the ground, etc. and when you deploy it you see a little movement.  If it does that it's going to break when you get too far away from it.  

 

If you deploy with a move tool (dropping pods, for example), the same thing seems to happen (at least in my experience).  Did the construct move after you stopped move-tooling it.


Ways I found to get around this include flattening the ground before deploying (so the construct starts on a flat surface and doesn't move) and putting a remote pilot on the construct.  With the remote pilot you can activate, let it settle down, deactivate, then activate/deactivate a second time and check it didn't move.  It seems that exiting a control session is similar, if it doesn't move after you stop controlling you're OK.

 

Of course, all this is just what I gleaned from experimenting and running a few hundred scans.  

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no.
ive done 2500 scans, 500 were on Ion.
im familiar with micro movements. easy way to test it is with the maneuvre tool, if it hangs in mid air after using the tool, it's fixed.
If it drops to the ground, it hasn't settled yet.
(There is a trick when landing u can do to make it settle very quickly, it involves the air brake and alt-c in the right order.
something i learnt on Ion. tested with the maneuvre tool almost every time. I say alt-c but ive rebound mine to c, far more sensible )

There may have been some kinda pattern between amd and intel before demeter, if you look through the above posts you might see it.
but post-demeter seems to have fixed it.

As for the people still, having problems.. maybe you have a point in their cases.
but pre-demeter, a shifting ship simply doesn't explain the number of cases.

A knowledgable helpful super-present player in discord told me that it's meant to stop when u get too far away.
that's how common the problem was, yet for some players, the units never ceased scanning no matter how far away they got.

Most of the tests, players have reported on this thread are not skewed by user error. there's simply too many from experienced people.
Also, if the ship shifts, all of the units would turn off, not 1 or 2 as has been the case in a few reports here and elsewhere.

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