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On 11/18/2021 at 5:23 PM, Jake Arver said:

 

... too many have too much money to spare for a number of reasons not related to normal gameplay and this will allow these individuals to claim tiles on a massive scale... 


Speak for yourself, I've played this on and off for 5 years and I don't have a huge amount of money, I do however have a structure that spreads across 5 tiles.  I design, I build and I used to enjoy.  This update pushes people like myself out of the game unless I am screwed for tax in game while have to cover a sub in real life.

Why worry about Orgs taking over swathes of the map, this game is moving more toward supporting only Org related play and players every-time there is a change.  

I pity the casual player that can't build that well has to rely on extortionate priced or crappy system ships as well as run around just getting money so his play isn't blocked.  I don't like the direction the game is taking at all.  It's not living up to the initial idea or promises of freedom to do what you want... because if you are poor this game isn't for you.

And for a start every player should have been given a courtesy miner to start off with so they can test this mechanic, this is a 'beta' game after all isn't it?

I used to have 7 friends playing this, we built a beautiful structure on Alioth, designed some amazing ships and they have all stopped playing.  My home is Jago and I've had to deconstruct everything on Alioth so all our efforts at least for parts and voxels are not lost.

My current funds if I don't start selling Ore for meager returns will last me 2 months, logging in daily will give me enough to cover 1 tile tax only.  I have other things in life than this game and I feel the end of the road coming near.

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@NQ you really need to review some mechanics here to let single players be competitive.

You need to have a progressive taxation that is very small for few territories and grows for each territory someone gets on a planet/moon. Only in this way you can achieve what you said was the purpose to avoid players or orgs to have too many Territories because only in this way a territory can't (as you declared) repay itself just mining it.

You need to review the asteroid mining. The asteroids cannot spawn all together on weekend, you penalize who can't play on weekend, they need to spawn randomly at any time in any day.

You can't reveal an asteroid as soon as a player approaches it, you don't give chance to this player to get anything since someone else will arrive in short time to the asteroid. Single players again are screwed.

You cannot deny a player to warp away if has been attacked by someone it is unrealistic and a clear intention from your side to give "food" to those play just for pvp... sorry I'm not interested in it, the pvp in this game is just horrible plus with all connection problems I'm not going to risk all I've for nothing because yes it is just nothing for a single player go to an asteroid out of e safe zone and not having the time to get anything.

Said so I think the performances increase a bit but not because of the terrain but because now I can set max 30 construct, in fact at the market there was no digging stuff but many constructs and while before i almost couldn't move on them now I get less freezing time.

Hope you listen what I wrote because I think can really make the difference in having players keep playing or having them gone.

In the past year I worked a lot to have an industry and now with this mechanic I may not be able to run it for the type of material I need and can't get anymore. Buying all of them it doesn't make sense.

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On 11/18/2021 at 4:58 PM, Hirnsausen said:

I thought, 1 million quanta a month, and I was feeling strain on me. But now reading that it is four times more (!!!) as the tax is paid weekly and not monthly, i do not know how to generate so much money ingame. My focus is to fly around and interact, mining is not so much something i do so aggressively. And especially new players will find it hard, too, to make so much money.

Unless the start-up territories on the Sanctuary Moon have a significantly better ore output than now. hen new players won't struggle. Remember, there is no "average player", so many of us who are not loud and are known to you, are playing on a lower level, nott mining aggressively or in big groups.

Also, if all of us palyers have to start mining aggressively, won' this cause that ttoo much ore is given to the markets and prices will fall, thus making it harder to earn the quanttas needed to pay the insane territory tax?

Finally, I remind you for one of my previous suggestions in which I described a tax that is oriented on the ore output value of a territory. hat is how it should be. I urge you to reconsider.

They seemed to have turned mining from what some people thought was tedious grind into what everyone thinks is tedious grind that will now lose your work and stuff if you don't do it.  

 

Well done NQ.

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On 11/27/2021 at 3:28 AM, Aviator1280 said:

@NQ you really need to review some mechanics here to let single players be competitive.

You need to have a progressive taxation that is very small for few territories and grows for each territory someone gets on a planet/moon. Only in this way you can achieve what you said was the purpose to avoid players or orgs to have too many Territories because only in this way a territory can't (as you declared) repay itself just mining it.

You need to review the asteroid mining. The asteroids cannot spawn all together on weekend, you penalize who can't play on weekend, they need to spawn randomly at any time in any day.

You can't reveal an asteroid as soon as a player approaches it, you don't give chance to this player to get anything since someone else will arrive in short time to the asteroid. Single players again are screwed.

You cannot deny a player to warp away if has been attacked by someone it is unrealistic and a clear intention from your side to give "food" to those play just for pvp... sorry I'm not interested in it, the pvp in this game is just horrible plus with all connection problems I'm not going to risk all I've for nothing because yes it is just nothing for a single player go to an asteroid out of e safe zone and not having the time to get anything.

Said so I think the performances increase a bit but not because of the terrain but because now I can set max 30 construct, in fact at the market there was no digging stuff but many constructs and while before i almost couldn't move on them now I get less freezing time.

Hope you listen what I wrote because I think can really make the difference in having players keep playing or having them gone.

In the past year I worked a lot to have an industry and now with this mechanic I may not be able to run it for the type of material I need and can't get anymore. Buying all of them it doesn't make sense.

fully agreeed

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Aye, seems we were never meant to leave... all those occupied Tiles doing nothing... now you need to set up a business before you think of venturing out.  Good luck to all the newbies, because being on the back foot 'aint no joke.  The future is grim for new players... But, I guess they could just run around their plot all day picking up Ore as the prices are pretty good for that.

Should be a sub game... 'Ore Picker' ... until it evolves into the second release 'Auto Miner - Pay your Tax'

 

^^

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1 hour ago, virtualburn said:

Aye, seems we were never meant to leave... all those occupied Tiles doing nothing... now you need to set up a business before you think of venturing out.  Good luck to all the newbies, because being on the back foot 'aint no joke.  The future is grim for new players... But, I guess they could just run around their plot all day picking up Ore as the prices are pretty good for that.

Should be a sub game... 'Ore Picker' ... until it evolves into the second release 'Auto Miner - Pay your Tax'

 

^^

 

People and even NQ should not forget that ore-stones are finite at Sanctuary. Surface ore will run out in no time. Then auto miners are only way to collect ore at Scanc.

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Can mining units just opperate on drill bits as the sink that need to be replaced to keep efficiency up and just make tiles 150k per week and compound the cost of dropping tiles with every tile you buy like it was before they incentivized land grabbing?

 

You could have 100s ore node stacks in an inventory you can put a miner on if you have a resource sink applied to mining drill bits vs taxes. You dont need HQ tiles if the tax per week is 150k and you get 7 tiles for free.

 

You dont need 100 tiles with hundreds of miners if you bring back finite ore pools per tile that reset once a month if you can just mine the tiles like the old system with minimal tiles with hundreds of miners each mining hundreds of nodes sepperately like how industry is handled.

 

You dont need the canival games if you just spawn ore directly on the ground per hour you can mine whenever since nobody but you can mine on a tile and the mini game only exists since they didnt know what to do and it could all be scrubbed to just put everything on the tile ore pool directly on the ground since the ore produced is lame and the mini game makes you mine on the ground eventually and is better than the hourly output in 1.5 days than 5 days worth of 12kl a day.

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The mining mini-game such bad gameplay.  Apart from the fact that the mini-game is just tedious, it's also completely RNG so sometimes we get 4k rocks and sometimes 1k, and on top of that half the time is flat out doesn't work and gives no rocks.

 

Please fix the bugs, and re-work the gameplay so it's not so demoralising. I'm really getting fed up of logging in to just be disappointed by the randomness of it all.

 

Ideally, get rid of the mini game and the RNG completely - make calibrate a button you press to keep efficiency up and spawn surface rocks at 100% each time.

 

It's frustrating enough to make a profit the way things are atm, never mind farm enough ore to actually build something.

 

- The previous manual mining system worked on positive reinforcement: time put in = amount of ore gained, and finding the ore was a predictable and rewarding mini-game.

- Current mining unit is an RNG mini-game, that is time gated, and only rewards small amounts of ore (if it actually works!), which is more along the lines of negative reinforcement. It just annoys me every time I do it because it's not optimal, and no amount of extra effort/time can change that.

 

A real step backwards in core DU gameplay.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Ving said:

The mining mini-game such bad gameplay.  Apart from the fact that the mini-game is just tedious, it's also completely RNG so sometimes we get 4k rocks and sometimes 1k, and on top of that half the time is flat out doesn't work and gives no rocks.

 

Please fix the bugs, and re-work the gameplay so it's not so demoralising. I'm really getting fed up of logging in to just be disappointed by the randomness of it all.

 

Ideally, get rid of the mini game and the RNG completely - make calibrate a button you press to keep efficiency up and spawn surface rocks at 100% each time.

 

It's frustrating enough to make a profit the way things are atm, never mind farm enough ore to actually build something.

 

- The previous manual mining system worked on positive reinforcement: time put in = amount of ore gained, and finding the ore was a predictable and rewarding mini-game.

- Current mining unit is an RNG mini-game, that is time gated, and only rewards small amounts of ore (if it actually works!), which is more along the lines of negative reinforcement. It just annoys me every time I do it because it's not optimal, and no amount of extra effort/time can change that.

 

A real step backwards in core DU gameplay.

 

 

Yeah, I did a video on Mu and calibration etc and my conclusion on calibration is that it is a slot machine (pokies).  It gives the illusion of skill and choice but really its mostly luck.  Slot machines (I believe) return about 75% of the money you put in.  Thats enough for most people to feel like they are winning and their choices matter.  I would not be at all surprised if 100% calibration is achieved in about 75% of cases.  Its clever, if it were skill based we would simply do the same thing every time for the 100% guaranteed skill calibration.  The system they came up with helps keep players engaged.  Which is what gambling is all about.  That said, I'm not saying its good game play at all.

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3 minutes ago, Underhook said:

Yeah, I did a video on Mu and calibration etc and my conclusion on calibration is that it is a slot machine (pokies).  It gives the illusion of skill and choice but really its mostly luck.  Slot machines (I believe) return about 75% of the money you put in.  Thats enough for most people to feel like they are winning and their choices matter.  I would not be at all surprised if 100% calibration is achieved in about 75% of cases.  Its clever, if it were skill based we would simply do the same thing every time for the 100% guaranteed skill calibration.  The system they came up with helps keep players engaged.  Which is what gambling is all about.  That said, I'm not saying its good game play at all.

Actually I use a technique that in most cases make me reach 90% or above (from the second calibration on the first one is not possible). The method I use is pretty simple. I place a first cone on a side. The second cone just after the edge of the area of higher intensity of the previous one if it point in the direction of the previous one I check that area otherwise I keep moving in the direction of high intensity. Rarely I had to use the other tools. In this way most of the time I get high rate. More difficult is when the territory it is not that reach of the ore you are looking for. But I could get more than 90% even with just about 50 l/h ores. But yes it is boring and it takes time. Now I only placed 3 mining site but these means I placed 14 mining units... also travelling time and expenses are not really covered when you are mining T1 ores that are the only one i found 

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8 minutes ago, Aviator1280 said:

Actually I use a technique that in most cases make me reach 90% or above (from the second calibration on the first one is not possible). The method I use is pretty simple. I place a first cone on a side. The second cone just after the edge of the area of higher intensity of the previous one if it point in the direction of the previous one I check that area otherwise I keep moving in the direction of high intensity. Rarely I had to use the other tools. In this way most of the time I get high rate. More difficult is when the territory it is not that reach of the ore you are looking for. But I could get more than 90% even with just about 50 l/h ores. But yes it is boring and it takes time. Now I only placed 3 mining site but these means I placed 14 mining units... also travelling time and expenses are not really covered when you are mining T1 ores that are the only one i found 

Yep, no offense, it looks to me like you fell for the illusion of skill which is exactly what the designed it to do.  

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1 minute ago, Underhook said:

Yep, no offense, it looks to me like you fell for the illusion of skill which is exactly what the designed it to do.  

Sorry but if you claimed that the rate it is not that high and that it is just luck then it is not an illusion because I obtain better results 

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1 hour ago, Aviator1280 said:

Sorry but if you claimed that the rate it is not that high and that it is just luck then it is not an illusion because I obtain better results 

Its not 100% luck, if we are completely incompetent then sure we will miss more often.  But if we basically do sensible things then there is a chance rate that is basically fixed.  Your rate is better than who?

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5 minutes ago, Underhook said:

Its not 100% luck, if we are completely incompetent then sure we will miss more often.  But if we basically do sensible things then there is a chance rate that is basically fixed.  Your rate is better than who?

You said that you wouldn't be surprised if 100% is on a 75% cases. Mine is better than this. But you are just guessing. I don't like the system and not only is boring and repetitive but also make you lose time this is for sure. Territory scanning that is just luck yes. But this one if you use some technique you can get some result 

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1 hour ago, Aviator1280 said:

You said that you wouldn't be surprised if 100% is on a 75% cases. Mine is better than this. But you are just guessing. I don't like the system and not only is boring and repetitive but also make you lose time this is for sure. Territory scanning that is just luck yes. But this one if you use some technique you can get some result 

OK, dont ever gamble

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It's a game of chance, because no matter what technique you use, in the end it's luck, the random factor, that decides where the best point is. I have had fields where there was no 100% point.
Similarly, you can't even use the MU fully with the calibration via VR, so you have to fly straight there and have wasted more time and fuel.

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After the dev Discord Q&A a few days ago, it's clear the devs don't even play this game. They are completely out of touch of how much this update has turned this "GAME" into a 2nd job. The taxes are too high for the effort required. NQ admitted they set the tax to be 50% of what you could mine at 100% efficiency. No society flourishes when everything is taxed at a 50% rate. On top of this, many of the miners we put down are bugged and will not pull at the rate they are suppose to. It's like other miners are already pulling the vast majority of the available pool, but there are no other miners on the territory.

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On 11/19/2021 at 5:35 AM, Kanamechan said:

Guys,

 

1m per week is nothing !!!!

you earn 150 k/ day => 1.05 m/ week

with a price of 65 l/q of T1, you just need 15.5 kl pour earn 1m.

1 MU = 230 L/h (max), but we can estimate 70 % of efficience (calibration decrease) on average which give you 161 L/h.

1 MU = 3 864 L/day => 27 000 L/h / weeks !

1 MU give you enought ore to sell to the market to pay your tax for almost 2 tile. But you will not have 1 MU on your tile, maybe 4 or 5 MU.

You don't want use MU ?

OK use mission

 

Alioth => thades = 950 000 q

thades => madis = 670 000 q

madis => alioth = 900 000 q

time to travel with landing : 3h

Total = 2.5 m /3h

2 run / weeks = 5 m = 5 tiles

 

And i dont talk about mission in pvp zone, like create of sand and territory parts. this 9.5 and 8.9 m per run.

Many organisation do the travel for you for 50 % of the rewards. That's enought for 10 min VR to pay 2 months per tile per run.

 

you don't want mission ?

 

HQ = no tax = no industry/MU but no loss of property

Sanctuary = free tax =  free MU = free ore = free quanta.

 

another easy solution :

You don't want use MU but some people want use MU and they will don't have enought calibration charge

they will pay to you to use VR and calibrate their MU. you have 5 charges without talent. 

Imagine that you sell your 5 calibrations charges for 2m/weeks. 

Free quanta for 10 min / VR each 48/72/96 H.

 

if you are a designer, builder, or made lua you can sell your work to earn quanta.

There are so many others solutions.... just search the solution for you for your play style

 

 

Prices are already at 29 per l and that was three days ago.  

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On 11/30/2021 at 2:35 AM, laberet said:

So the meta is no longer mining and now salvaging?  Is the new point system the tears and rage of people who supporting your game early on?  I'm really struggling to find anything in the recent changes that are fun or enjoyable.  Taxes and reduced resources are not it...

They've employed some stupid artifcial limits to salvaging, like needing to own the tile and wait weeks for the original owner to have fully abandoned a construct.

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On 12/4/2021 at 7:34 PM, Anopheles said:

Prices are already at 29 per l and that was three days ago.  

Well

1 MU with 230 L/h x 24h x 7d x 25q = 960 000 q / week

And i didn't talking about bonus with each calibration.

10 min VR every 48/72/96h to pay the tile. Really hard....

 

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