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1 minute ago, Kanamechan said:

Well

1 MU with 230 L/h x 24h x 7d x 25q = 960 000 q / week

And i didn't talking about bonus with each calibration.

10 min VR every 48/72/96h to pay the tile. Really hard....

 

I used most of the points but not all of them to the mining unit and mine so far can't go over 148 l/h, I've a base rate of (121+111% efficiency)+10% adjacency, where do you get 230 l/h?

Maximum bonus so far for tier 1 ores I got 4200 when i make a good calibration which means just above 100k q. With the investment you need the system is pretty boring. Since Demeter came out from about 90 milions I went down to 36... had to spend also a lot for warp cells if I want the material I need. The problem is also that this system is taking me away too much time in a way I don't want to play this game. And they actually introduced a too repetitive mechanism with this calibration stuff.

 

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20 minutes ago, Aviator1280 said:

I used most of the points but not all of them to the mining unit and mine so far can't go over 148 l/h, I've a base rate of (121+111% efficiency)+10% adjacency, where do you get 230 l/h?

Maximum bonus so far for tier 1 ores I got 4200 when i make a good calibration which means just above 100k q. With the investment you need the system is pretty boring. Since Demeter came out from about 90 milions I went down to 36... had to spend also a lot for warp cells if I want the material I need. The problem is also that this system is taking me away too much time in a way I don't want to play this game. And they actually introduced a too repetitive mechanism with this calibration stuff.

 


The 230 litres are only if they have max skills and 60% tile bonus and do NOT calibrate via VR. So it's the best you could get if you got everything out through skills and luck.
 

Many streamers show how exactly these 230 litres are not a standard, they all seem to be unable to manage this and usually get values between 98-182 litres.

Maybe he'd like to stream a round and prove how real these numbers really are, if it's that easy.

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Well I think I'm going to mark HQ and disappear for another 8 months.  I've been mining Chromite and Petalite since the update and have sold 2,000 Lithium.  Prices are so dire it's not even worth refining, in the case for Chromium and Petalite going with buy orders you'll get the same as just selling the Ore, for Chromite more for the Ore than the Pure. Utter waste of paying for refining schematics.

 

It cost me 4 Mil in Warp Cells to just get form Jago to Alioth Market 6.

 

I've spent about 60 Mil to get up and running and see no way of making that money back in the short term let alone paying for the 5 tiles I'm using for mining.  The idea of getting more tiles on another planet for some T1 or T2 Ore is just too painful to think about and I'm not going to waste my time because IF I did this I'm sure those prices also would be as bad.

Prices for Chromite and Petalite have dropped 50% since update and still falling and as soon as you reduce your price the next person does the same... This tax system should have been put off so people could at least get used to the system, markets settle and you know where you are.

I'm broke.  I won't be paying my tax monday therefore all the time and effort I've spent placing and setting up mining units will be unusable further preventing me from making any money.  I don't see where my game goes from here.

The game is dead for me at the moment.  I've crossed paths with about 5 people at markets and nobody is buying.

NQ is just forcing the bulk of players back to Sanctuary.  Which in time will become another Lag Fest for new players.  Nice work.

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1 hour ago, Kanamechan said:

1 MU with 230 L/h x 24h x 7d x 25q = 960 000 q / week


You obviously don't understand now mining units work.  They have a max of 100L/h (without bonus) so for a tile with 230L/h of resource you would need 3 mining units to take all that an hour.  Show me a screen shot of 1 MU with a pull of 230L/h?

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11 minutes ago, virtualburn said:

You obviously don't understand now mining units work.  They have a max of 100L/h (without bonus) so for a tile with 230L/h of resource you would need 3 mining units to take all that an hour.  Show me a screen shot of 1 MU with a pull of 230L/h?


Again: calculating with such maximum values is and remains wrong, because you cannot guarantee them and they only apply on a field with 60%. If you want this 60%, you need the interaction of 7 fields, whereby only the middle field will have this 60%, the others only 30%. The whole calibration is very luck-dependent and can break any calculation again. Likewise, if you do not always set the calibrations at the right time.

unknown (7).png

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Yes I agree, not only that most players already have 'base' tiles they will need to pay tax on and these don't always give great values, let alone getting the bonus for surrounding tile so you will have to go further to find a tile and pay tax on that tile as well as others you own.  I can see the logic in this update but it just isn't workable for casual players who may just want to enjoy the build mechanics of the game.

 

If the bots for example gave a base price that you could cover tax with, this would force up the price of Ores / Pures so people could actually make some money.  some more than others obviously, but there has to be a base rate so people can survive and play the game rather than be mining /ore haulers for a living before anything else.

 

Most Orgs don't want casual players so if you are solo then I don't see what the game has to offer in terms of enjoyment anymore.  that being said, I've enjoyed getting back into the game and setting up the new mechanic, even through I was lucky enough to have the funds to do so, but if I had a choice, in hindsight I wouldn't have as it's just not a workable solution.

Maybe if I come back in 6 months when my talents are complete it may have changed for the better.

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29 minutes ago, Zarcata said:


Again: calculating with such maximum values is and remains wrong, because you cannot guarantee them and they only apply on a field with 60%. If you want this 60%, you need the interaction of 7 fields, whereby only the middle field will have this 60%, the others only 30%. The whole calibration is very luck-dependent and can break any calculation again. Likewise, if you do not always set the calibrations at the right time.

unknown (7).png

This is what I saw so far using MU.

1) The minigame is used only to get the bunch of stone to harvest and not to increase what you can get from the MU.
2) After a calibration (from the second one) the mining unit goes always to 100% and it will get the amount from the Base Rate multiplied by the efficiency. The result is then multiplied for the Adjacency if any.
3) Optimal is how much our mining unit is working respect to the maximum it can get and it is based on the Base rate.

I still need to see some dynamics but more or less that's it. 

Kind of repetitive and boring and taking away the time I wanted to play DU.

Also to make people sell the ores to pay the taxes they need NPC. With the small amount of ores we get it is hard to sell something to someone else. The market NPC practically set the maximum amount some ore can be sold since no one would sell it at higher price... which means NQ decides how the market goes.

To save the server costs they are really giving this game hard time and players may go away.

The story about performances I can't say it is true because to play better I can now set max construct to 30... but this is not due to the terrain reset....... it is something thay could do even earlier.

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I was really surprised to see this update and I was really disappointed!  I spent days on scans and finding ok-ish tiles with more or less ore max 1.8KT and I am not a hardcore player.  Casually comming into the game knowing that I have set myself with a little piece of pie  for later.  I was mining and enjoying gameplay. Now NQ disregarded all that and throw away all countless efforts of me and everyone who was all about finding nodes and mining them.That action is not for beta games, I would say it's acceptable maybe in alpha stage of a game.

What's next buying tiles on asteroids? Fuel tax?  Maybe meteorites falling down on our tiles destroying MU for mining too much?

 

Never the less, on the other hand I was truly excited to see this update. I was thinking that now I don't even have to look for ore, just set up MU and enjoy free income do whatever, maybe even dare to go to PvP and see outside safe zone. At the moment I have casually played DU for a year and I have not been to every planet outside of safe zone yet. All the time I am in the safezone. I could not afford to go that far and loose a descent ship. And mostly upgrading and rebuilding experimental space vehicles for myself.

 

Calibrating MU that is super boring and very annoying to go and harvest ore after, believe me I have done alot of harvesting before I figured out how to find it in the ground ). The profit margins no where near as they used to. 

 

Since the update the only things I have been doing is trying to figure y the way to make money to pay for 7 tiles.  I thought it will be super profitable. But it is't more profitable, it is more hussle than ever befor. I have to keep up on my MU almost every day and keep an eye on my territory upkeep. And it feels like a second job. Now prices of ore fall down almost as a year ago. This update would work if t1 price would be firm at around 80's and now it's going rapidly towards low 20's. 

 

I am not playing DU because I need second job and whole alot of stress. I have plenty of it in real life. I play DU because I love space the freedom to go where I want to go, build what I want to build. Now I feel obligated to play this game every day so I could at least keep what I have gotten. Probably will wrap it up and move to Sanctuary Moon yeah so much fun!

 

So sad I prepaid yearly subscription.....

And for the whole year before I was paying every month, even though I wasn't playing every month. I have done it because I liked the game and wanted to support it. I really hope you guys at NQ will give your heads a shake.

At least provided some weekly missions so I can pay for my bloody tiles if I don't play DU ever day.

 

Also may be instead of giving 150k a day, make one tile on any planet duty free........

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't find calibration itself boring or annoying, but I am kind of getting tired of managing mining units on a daily basis. I know that's supposed to be optional, but when you have to pay taxes, it really isn't very optional, you want to optimize your calibrations so you get the most out of your tiles. I'll probably be downsizing the number of tiles I use for mining.

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Also would like to mention that players that have established big factories and have bases at tiles with t3 and up would not be taxed accordingly, therefore will be easy for them to get more profit per tile. And all new players we'll be forced to sell t1 and if they get luck may be t2 for next to nothing so they can pay tax.

 

There already jobs on the forum that pay 200000 pre charge so in a week I can make 35 calibrations ( roughly regenerate one charge every 5 hours) so it will be 6-7M without me paying taxes on the land.  That's almost the same as  me managing my 7 tiles of t1.

 

I, as a solo player can keep up with only 14 MU a week.( That's to calibrate my MU every second day) that means I would need around 4 tiles of t1 let's say I have 5 HQ together and mining only on 4 and on the 5th I don't mine and don't pay tax just for bonus. Ballpark of one MU I guess around 125L/H. So 14x125x24x7=290,000 L per week of t1.

 

Let's do 35 charges, that will also give me let's say 3750L per calibration.

So its 131,250L

 

Let's be generous and sell it at 30 per liter.

So it's 8.8m as per MU

And its 3.9m  as per harvest and it is constant unless you get faster charges.

Tax is 4M not paying for the 5th HQ

Profit is 8.7M 

But you have to harvest all the ore take it to the market. 

6-7 M per week to sell your charges sounds great. Just do your thing and VR for couple of millions every 2 days. 

 

Even if you get 7 tiles and 28 units you cannot run them same efficiency as 14-16 MU.

With 28 MU will be in about 100 l/h 

28x100x24x7=470,400 x 30 perper liter = 14,112,000 

plus 3.9m  as per harvest and it is constant unless you get faster charges.

Tax is 7M

Profit 11M  for double time

That's 2.3M for double of work, double of equipment and almost double of tiles to get and pay for.

 


All of that hopefully will make t1 more rare and it will bump up in price. For now it doesn't work time to mine t1.  It worth to sell charges and live on Sanctuary moon or any other HQ if you can afford it.

 

Btw my Sanctuary tile is almost 500. Let's say my 4 units will be getting 400 per hour, thats about 67,200 L per week sell for 30 will be 2M

And 14 charges to do it will be 52,500 L sell for 30 and 1.575M 

Sell the rest 21 charge at 200,00p ant its 4.2M

And total 7.775M also the fuel cost to go sell it.

 

 

 

In my opinion the tax should be based on goods produced and income made rather than per property.  I never heard of one who  makes let's say 1,000 a month to be taxted a same amount as a person or a business that make 1,000,000 a month this is an absurd! Unless I guess we are in DU.

 

 

If I build a ship and pay that for all that I bought at the market when I loose it where is my tax rebate? By the way we already paying taxes at the market! 

 

So for now I guess I got my self a part-time job so I can continue to build and explore the vast space of DU. Soon if feel like I would have to hitchhike around coz I would not be able to afford a space capeble ship and fuel it to go see around. Hey that's why they have a VR folks. 

 

Sometimes I get feeling that me play in DU is like my video card mining crypto except in DU I pay to them to use me as a labour to mine hash for them!

 

#WorkHard play even Harder in DU

 

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On 12/10/2021 at 4:39 PM, Haunty said:

I am kind of getting tired of managing mining units on a daily basis. I know that's supposed to be optional, but when you have to pay taxes, it really isn't very optional,..


Agreed, I haven't done anything this last 2 weeks when I've been able to log on apart from sorting out mining units.  Ive just been out to Thades and the tiles there are piss poor.  I actually have a single tile there that has some Sulfur but a useless amount so I though I would go scanning.. 40 x (15 minutes) tiles later and not a sniff of T4 or T5

It;s just going to be an easier place for me to get Coal and Quartz.

 

23 hours ago, HardBOSS13 said:

#WorkHard play even Harder in DU

 


There's a lot of speculation from people and I agree with what you are saying about how much you 'could' make.  You mention in your previous post that people mining T4 / T5 can make money - well after 10 days I have sold ZERO Chromium and ZERO Lithium the price just gets lower and lower.  I didn't make enough last week to cover the cost of the tax on tiles - NOT INCLUDING the now 60 Million I have spent moving and buying units to actually mine this stuff.

I have no idea when I will return to designing my ships or even be able to use any Ore for voxels.  All my ships are going to be made of Chrome  ^^

I'll run out of money soon and then just go back to Elite Dangerous.

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Mining Units... yes, probably people were tired to mine but damn now the Mining Unit is even more boring. The calibration stuff it is just boring and tedious. It takes away lot of time that I would spend in a different way (at the moment even bugged and can't get the rocks that I should). Practically now I'm obliged to play how NQ wants me to play every single time I log in and not time to time like i was doing before to have some quantas to buy stuff when needed.

Taxes were supposed to be an obstacle for those have too many Territories... not really a thing with the taxation system they made. Yes the single player is limited while the org less limited since can have now people calibrating the MU instead to send them to mine... well it will be even more boring for them anyway at least before they were organizing mining expeditions now only asteroids left that still spawn ONLY in weekend.

The server is doing worst than ever, the only thing that improved performances is because now I can limit the construct to maximum 30 and many times not even enough (improving performances removing things it is not really a thing). The RAM always gets full and need to relaunch the game. I also wonder if actually this new system for the terrain voxels is increasing our CPU load since the shape is more complex than a simple cube, not sure about this but having still lot of problems with the loading of terrain and having more "pending operations" than before. Can't even use the smooth tool on Alioth while I can on Ion.

Market is just a mess now. Prices are out of controls and if we can sell something like Iron is just because of bots. Other materials are difficult to find and need a too big investment. Before Demeter i was having about 90 mil now to align to the new style I went down to about 20 mil and I don't see the possibility to get back. This game now is a disaster, it's enough not to play for few days that your MU stops you don't get ores, you can't repay taxes and you can only play the card of HQ to don't lose them. Obviously they did all this to make people play the game and constantly pay the sub. To me this is now a system that will just make players stop to play. What this game is giving to player? I'm not sure anymore, someone playing because like to build but now can't spend the desired time doing it, someone playing because can be interesting to create systems in LUA but again distracted by the new game dynamics. I don't know actually other reasons why other people play DU and heard many players wants to stop so...

Unfortunately I don't think after this big mistake it will be easy to recover.

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Day one using mining units with calibration: This is a useless system...ok efficientcy sucks, lets grab rocks instead.

Day two using mining units, Ok calibration is even worse today as yesterday, grabing rocks doesnt do much either but well, we got something

Day tree logging in.  Shit noway im going to do this boring stuff every day, cyaaa Logging out, open steam call friends play space engineers, do actual mining, 3 days to build a ship looking epic, fighting in PvP, meating some DSI people who probably didnt know who i was, But had a great time.

Day four not logging in

Day five not logging in

 

With the implementation of schematics almost all were against and prices were high, But you didnt listen to any of the objections, mass player leaves. Now we get this patch, comments everywhere, players again leaving some after coming back a week or so and the comment list is large. best part about schematics was the solution: But you make alot of cash so buying them is easy, now we dont make anything anymore except the people who do missions.

In the end DU became a Do missions for cash and log out Game. Maybe I am missing a point but the whole idea of building civilization together in a MMO should be different then flying alts on a mission solo.

 

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End oh... this rick harvesting is so slow... about 12 seconds of holding mouse button to grab 400 L of iron... so when you have to grab 4200 L or Iron it means you spend not less than 2 minutes doing something so boring and this is just for 1 MU, if you have let's say 4 on a territory you already spent more than 8 minutes doing nothing plus what is around them, going back and forward making the calibration bla bla bla... shit already 20 minutes playing and I didn't do anything I want... damn I need to go...

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Calibrating is easy and quick. I’m getting tones of ore, enough to both build and sell for taxes, and even at bot prices it’s plenty.

 

Love the patch.

 

Mining pre patch, now THAT was boring and repetitive. 

Edited by Shredder
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Ok.. so here is my hawt take. 

 

TL;DR  - Trash complete and absolute trash.

 

Long version.

 

This patch has done nothing to fix the underlying issues with junk left everywhere.  Alioth is still a junk yard, I wont even talk about the hair on Sanctuary or Alioth.   There is ZERO loss even with the territory upkeep.  Just set one tile to HQ and make mobile mining bases to just move around.   You will never lose the junk no matter where you are.   Mining is a joke now... if it was boring to some  before, now it is mindless and a chimp can do it.  Hell my cat can do it.

 

This patch has fixed ZERO of the issues.

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2 hours ago, Shredder said:

Calibrating is easy and quick. I’m getting tones of ore, enough to both build and sell for taxes, and even at bot prices it’s plenty.

 

Love the patch.

 

Mining pre patch, now THAT was boring and repetitive. 

Not sure which game you are playing... calibrating is easy yes but not fast at all, if I calibrate my units i waste at least half an hour, grabbing the rocks is so slow, not mentioning that is even longer when you start to use surrogate to do so.

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5 hours ago, Aviator1280 said:

Not sure which game you are playing... calibrating is easy yes but not fast at all, if I calibrate my units i waste at least half an hour, grabbing the rocks is so slow, not mentioning that is even longer when you start to use surrogate to do so.

Grabbing the rocks is optional, I skip that bit. My mining stations are all clumped together, and the mining stations are on the territory edges, so only need visit 3 locations to sort out the calibrations. Calibrate once every 4 days. The whole process takes about 15minutes each day.

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3 minutes ago, Shredder said:

Grabbing the rocks is optional, I skip that bit. My mining stations are all clumped together, and the mining stations are on the territory edges, so only need visit 3 locations to sort out the calibrations. Calibrate once every 4 days. The whole process takes about 15minutes each day.

Grabbing rocks is optional? Do you realised that 4200 L of ores the MU at the max rate I've it would take 30 hours to collect? And you say that is optional? Well yes if you don't care yes it is... that's why you only take 15 minutes (which is still a decent amount of time anyway)... also skipping the calibration is a possibility and you get the basic... so yes I repeat what game are you playing?

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8 hours ago, Aviator1280 said:

Grabbing rocks is optional? Do you realised that 4200 L of ores the MU at the max rate I've it would take 30 hours to collect? And you say that is optional? Well yes if you don't care yes it is... that's why you only take 15 minutes (which is still a decent amount of time anyway)... also skipping the calibration is a possibility and you get the basic... so yes I repeat what game are you playing?

yeah.. and to make any decent money you need t2 at least, you need t3+ to do any thing further in the game, but due to the cost of ore being so low, where NQ took away all the bots, leading you to needing the TS a major headache in own right as searching would be monumentally slow and tedious, then you need a TU + core + container each time and you need to find a tile.. then  being hammered by 500k + fees + TU Costs then a further million every time to keep the tile activate, all the while they tile might not even contain any advanced ores .. just kills the game, compounded with all the constant to and fro flying (costs fuel) because they wont treat Schematics as data, not that we dont enjoy to fly but not with out our own in game agendas "dreams" being respected, we cant spend what time we get to play the game running around collecting rocks, searching for Advance ore tiles, and being extorted and punished to high hell all of the sector units!... 

 

Edited by NCORE1
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So many good conversations here. So much great feedback, a lot from the heart.  I just want to chip in and say that I feel with the current economy I don't think 1 million per non HQ TU is feasible.  Reason? This is a game where creators are drawn to. Creating types want to do that, and not have to be forced into mining to make their cash.  They also will usually take up multiple tiles.  I say have a different taxation rate if there are mining unit(s) on it.  A million is not insurmountable to make by any means, but there are weeks you definitely don't make that from purely sales because very few are buying!  It's just reality.  Larger orgs will source from in-house industrialists. There is too much "stuff" on the markets, and not enough demand.   Bring it back down a bit. Allow one TU where you can run industry units without being taxed, or at a MUCH lower rate.  Where the amazing creators (so many out there) can be free to create.

 

One quick point about mining units.  I've only been running them for a week now, but there's no comparison to what I could pull out mining before this update. I'm all for mining units, don't get me wrong, finding the deeper ores was a pain, but the ratio of T3 & T4 ore is way worse than it was before.  This is probably to force asteroid mining, but then why even have T3 - T5 on planets at all?

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Seriously I don't have time to play the game in the way I was used to and in the way I want to play. I don't have time... Every time I log in I have to spend about 1 hour for the Mining Unit or time anyway related to pay taxes or have enough quanta to buy material I need or to mine them. Before time to time I was going to mine a bit and I was taking the opportunity to test some stuff for my flight system. Now I'm bored, need to calibrate the Mining Units and need to spend hours looking for a decent spot to get the ores I need.

The market is just a mess, if bots were not existing we are all done. How can people sell something like Hematite that nobody needs since is everywhere? Only because of bots we can seel it.

The last update is killing the game and I believe you, NQ, start to realize it but just wanted to go in this direction to save serever costs which still doesn't work well anyway. The damages are done, not much you can do to recover from this path except trying to minimize them.

No progressive taxes has been implemented yet, no asteroids spawning randomly in any area and at any time, bugs that are giving players problems to get rocks fromthe ground still there etc etc...

You NQ pretend that we play a beta and pretend that having bugs is normal and it is yes but you also pretend we follow the way you want we play and bugs and difficulties are not making this game a pleasure to play anymore. There is no support anymore in game because you are so busy with a huge amounts of tickets where people wait for a week an answer and this answer doesn't even solve the problem but started to be an automatic reply. So what is this? And you increased the price? You increased the price to give us this? A more expencive service with lower quality. I think I don't need to say anything else.

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On 12/10/2021 at 9:24 PM, HardBOSS13 said:

I, as a solo player can keep up with only 14 MU a week.( That's to calibrate my MU every second day) that means I would need around 4 tiles of t1 let's say I have 5 HQ together and mining only on 4 and on the 5th I don't mine and don't pay tax just for bonus.


Tile without tax = no Bonus.

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I just want so add my voice to those who say the daily chore of tending to mining units is not fun game play.

 

It's such a bad experience. The old mining was time consuming and boring but that you could do when absolutely needed, not on a time schedule determined by the game. Picking up surface rocks must be a world-worst idea ever.

 

I've played this game nearly every day since just after start of beta, but I'm honestly loosing the will to do so and the mining system plays a huge part in that. I want to play a game and have fun, not log in to a second job.

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I have restricted myself to a single HQ tile close to district 6. And even that single tile is such a chore that I am starting to dread login in to maintain it.

And I cannot believe I am saying this, but it is even more boring and repetitive then mining ever was.

 

And as Yoarii just said, at least with mining you could choose when to do the chore and gather enough resources in one session to last a while.

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