Jump to content

DEVBLOG: TERRITORY UPKEEP - Discussion Thread


NQ-Deckard

Recommended Posts

Quote

as nested organizations with one territory each can be created to only benefit from the lowest tax level. 

 

The HQ tiles will do the exact same thing unless these tiles can't have rights for orgs assigned to them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Hirnsausen said:

I thought, 1 million quanta a month, and I was feeling strain on me. But now reading that it is four times more (!!!) as the tax is paid weekly and not monthly, i do not know how to generate so much money ingame. My focus is to fly around and interact, mining is not so much something i do so aggressively. And especially new players will find it hard, too, to make so much money.

Unless the start-up territories on the Sanctuary Moon have a significantly better ore output than now. hen new players won't struggle. Remember, there is no "average player", so many of us who are not loud and are known to you, are playing on a lower level, nott mining aggressively or in big groups.

Also, if all of us palyers have to start mining aggressively, won' this cause that ttoo much ore is given to the markets and prices will fall, thus making it harder to earn the quanttas needed to pay the insane territory tax?

Finally, I remind you for one of my previous suggestions in which I described a tax that is oriented on the ore output value of a territory. hat is how it should be. I urge you to reconsider.

I agree with this. I myself dont focus on mining because I dont care for it. I will say the automatic miners might make this a bit better but you will still have to find a way to make more money since its every week for taxes. I think it should be once a month or be every two weeks for (1,000,000 quanta/ 2 weeks).  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jake Arver said:

 

The HQ tiles will do the exact same thing unless these tiles can't have rights for orgs assigned to them

The big difference is that a player can only have 5. If players want to contribute to org territory, why stop them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, virtualburn said:

I've been offline for a while and moved to another planet due to all the Org players quitting the game.  I want to come back but was waiting for a lot of the issues to be addressed and improvements to be implemented.  Am I right in thinking then that that actual weeks of work mining and constructing these bases on territories will firstly empty my bank account with tax then make all my buildings and equipment available for looting?

This is the first thing about this game that has truly put me off coming back if I lose all the hard work and innovation I put into this game.  I have stored 1000's of voxels ready to come back and complete a range of ships and buildings semi complete.

If this tax system is limited to Orgs then fine, but if you are forcing players to play your game or lose everything then this isn't a tactic I'm comfortable with.

Just read befor posting, all the answer of you question have been explain in NQ-Dekard post.
In your case, you will have 2 weeks to coonect to the game, and set the tile with your asset as "Hearquarters territory"
And you will be hable to keep 5 territory with no taxe for life

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Torsten said:

The big difference is that a player can only have 5. If players want to contribute to org territory, why stop them?

 

You are saying that it's fine if orgs can amass or at aleast have full access to hundreds of tiles where they only need to pay tax when the situation calls for it, including locking down tiles with specific ores or quantities of ores and only pay the tax if they need to mine these?

 

IC could run their massive spaceport and never have to pay a cent in tax for the tile(s) they occupy with it and that goes for any large org infrastructure..

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Aviator1280 said:

Has not beed mentioned if the Headquarter can change during the game or once assigned it will not be possible to change it.

 

I suggest to don't remove the ownership to a territory because a player didn't renew the subscription, this will be very bothering for those that want to take a break from th game and if they do they may not come back if they lose their stuff.

 

Progressive taxes is the only real way to avoid players/organizations to get too many territories. If the amount of taxes will increase with the number of territories it will be more interesting to study which territory to keep and which not to keep since at one point they will not be able to "repay" their value. Different Planets/Moons should have separate taxation.

 

I want to insist on the fact that some dynamic of Demeter are going to push players to be in PVP even if they don't desired, this is a very negative thing and that a ship can't warp away if under attack witho no possibilities of defences or that didn't counterattacked it is not realistic and is very unpleasant.

If you don't want to PVP, just don't go to PVP zone, all the game contant is accessible from safe zone even after DEMETER

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Haunty said:

Couple questions: What about the Sanctuary tiles, is there anything special with them? Or do they also expire and lose ownership when unsubscribed?

What happens to dynamic constructs and space station cores when you unsubscribe?

And I assume we can still maneuver someone else's dynamic constructs off your territory or submit ticket for removal?

Sanctuary tile are free for life, probably even you you stop you subscription, so you have a place to store your asset if you take a long game brake

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

 

You are saying that it's fine if orgs can amass or at aleast have full access to hundreds of tiles where they only need to pay tax when the situation calls for it, including locking down tiles with specific ores or quantities of ores and only pay the tax if they need to mine these?

 

How about individual player having a change to rent tile to org.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Torsten said:

Does the requisitioning system only apply to newly acquired territories or could I, hypothetically, requisition a construct that was placed on one of my territories six months ago but the player left the game?

Yes, requisitioning require a player action "right click on construct" it can be done anytime after you claim the territory, even month later

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, this may be a pretty rough change for casuals and especially for people who take time off from the game. My buddy and I have an org that owns 2 or 3 tiles total... We both have been taking time away since the original Industry/Finances changes about a year ago. If friends take time off, and their land is owned by orgs, they could come back to literally nothing left... A really terrible model if you want previous player to ever come back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

 

You are saying that it's fine if orgs can amass or at aleast have full access to hundreds of tiles where they only need to pay tax when the situation calls for it, including locking down tiles with specific ores or quantities of ores and only pay the tax if they need to mine these?

 

IC could run their massive spaceport and never have to pay a cent in tax for the tile(s) they occupy with it and that goes for any large org infrastructure..

 

 

I'd like to quote myself from way back when on the Demeter Q/A thread

On 11/10/2021 at 10:49 PM, Torsten said:

Some thoughts and concerns regarding HQ tiles

1) Don't make it per org, then we'll just end up with the creating multiple orgs to claim land scenario all over again. Maybe even restrict HQ tiles to player owned tiles only?

2) HQ tiles should probably be reduced to 0 L/h for all ores. No taxes, no ore

3) There should probably be some system in place to hinder using HQ tiles for strategic gains. I'm thinking claiming tax free HQ tiles for the purpose of selling them/renting them out etc. Maybe HQ tiles should have a much longer release cooldown or something along those lines.

4) Personally I would currently rather have fewer HQ tiles per planet instead of more global HQ tiles. Or a compromise of, lets say 5, tiles on a planet/moon of your choice plus 1 tile per planet for outposts

 

 

But on the topic of orgs using them for infrastructure, yes I think that is actually one of the primary purpose for them. Not many single players would require 5 tax free safe tiles all by themselves.. And the primary reason for making them per player is to prevent org spamming. But I do wish they had an answer for the strategic use for them though. I'm perfectly fine with infrastructure. Orgs won't be able to run any tax-free industry on them anyways

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Hirnsausen said:

I thought, 1 million quanta a month, and I was feeling strain on me. But now reading that it is four times more (!!!) as the tax is paid weekly and not monthly, i do not know how to generate so much money ingame. My focus is to fly around and interact, mining is not so much something i do so aggressively. And especially new players will find it hard, too, to make so much money.

Unless the start-up territories on the Sanctuary Moon have a significantly better ore output than now. hen new players won't struggle. Remember, there is no "average player", so many of us who are not loud and are known to you, are playing on a lower level, nott mining aggressively or in big groups.

Also, if all of us palyers have to start mining aggressively, won' this cause that ttoo much ore is given to the markets and prices will fall, thus making it harder to earn the quanttas needed to pay the insane territory tax?

Finally, I remind you for one of my previous suggestions in which I described a tax that is oriented on the ore output value of a territory. hat is how it should be. I urge you to reconsider.

Territory income are planed to be set so that an exploited territory generate mote than 1million per week
so for now you can just sell ore generate by you territory to paid taxe and get a few bonus

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, kulkija said:

How about individual player having a change to rent tile to org.

 

"This feature is only available to player-owned, not organization-owned" implies that the HQ tiles are not intended for use by orgs and it makes sense to design it like that.

NQ creates an exploit if they do not prevent that from happening anyway. The statement made by NQ as quoted above implies they should put measures in place to prevent this.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Jake Arver said:

 

"This feature is only available to player-owned, not organization-owned" implies that the HQ tiles are not intended for use by orgs and it makes sense to design it like that.

NQ creates an exploit if they do not prevent that from happening anyway. The statement made by NQ as quoted above implies they should put measures inplace to prevent this.

 

I hope so

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Aranol said:

Territory income are planed to be set so that an exploited territory generate mote than 1million per week
so for now you can just sell ore generate by you territory to paid taxe and get a few bonus

 

How much more then the 1 million tax per week?  How about a specific example with some exact numbers NQ?  How much ore is going to be left after taxes to keep my factories running?  If you want the full adjacency bonus you are looking at 6 million a week, 24 million a a month.  NQ please share how you came up with this tax rate?
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Samedi said:

All the timescales sound way too short to me. Two weeks is nothing.

 

I'd like to see things a bit more stretched out. Give us a month or two with territory transfers enabled so that we can get our heads around which territories we want to keep and who needs to own what. Then a month or two more with rents enabled but no territory reclaiming / forfeiting. Let that bed in before you start throwing people off their tiles and destroying their stuff.

Lets do some math :
first you have 2 weeks payed taxe on demeter launch
then 2 weeks of "off line" state
then if you territory is instantly claimed by someone, that instantly  requisition you core, you still have 2 weeks befor core ownler ship change

so in the worst case, you are already guarenty a 6 week timer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, BartholomewBainbridge said:

I'd love to see how you came up with 1,000,000 a week in taxes. 

I would like to see some math here as well. I did not get to play PTS enough to feel any meaningful mining production output and determine how much base production effectively goes in the trash.

 

@Gottchar Did have a thread with a lot of good numbers. I really hope they did not calculate based on well-maintained and maxed out mining units, nor should they use the current market price of ore but instead only the bot prices to determine possible income.

 

An average of 400L/h T1 production on a tile, assuming a few poorly calibrated mining units, will produce 9,600L/day and 67.2kl/week. At 23 quanta/L that is 1,545,600 quanta/week. It is doable, but we'll have to see how tedious it feels for the average player to be forced into converting ore into quanta just to pay taxes.

 

What we might see are a lot more player hauling missions to take ore to the market. That could actually be a welcome bump in general activity.

I also agree with others that two weeks is not enough time for the world to settle after Demeter drops for taxes to kick in; I'd like to see a month before the first tax bill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Alelock said:

Yeah, this may be a pretty rough change for casuals and especially for people who take time off from the game. My buddy and I have an org that owns 2 or 3 tiles total... We both have been taking time away since the original Industry/Finances changes about a year ago. If friends take time off, and their land is owned by orgs, they could come back to literally nothing left... A really terrible model if you want previous player to ever come back.

Tokenize you Org territory
Switch them to personal territory
Declare them as headquarter tile

and that's it, you problem is solved !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

The new owner of a territory can requisition any static construct present on his territory. Requisitioning will start a two-week window where the new territory owner must allow access to the static construct for the former owner and where the former owner of the static construct is able to remove that static construct by dismantling and removing it from the territory.

 

Is this enforced by game mechanics, a gentleman's agreement, or a GM having to intervene?  Is there anything preventing a player from requisitioning an abandoned static and then burying it in dirt or surrounding it with another construct to physically prevent the previous owner from getting to it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1,000,000 quantas a tile?!! A Week?!! Right. Not all of us live in Mommy and Daddy's basement playing DU for ever, we have jobs and like coming back home to our families and then getting on DU for some building and shooting. Not logging in to pay taxes or moving ore to pay taxes. I do that a plenty in real life thanks. I am aware that its necessary for a tile tax but that is nuts. In the DevBlog they said that a million a month was getting poor reviews from the player base, and now they take it one step in the wrong direction. Mine to pay taxes, pay taxes to mine. HQ tiles were to be TAX FREE, NON-TAXABLE, TAX SHELTERS to give players an offset from the tax issues. Why have the DevBlog and a Q&A video if they aren't gonna stick by what they said. This is infuriating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you unsubscribe, you should not expect to come back to the game and have anything except the quanta in your pocket. If you do not unsubscribe and just go afk for years, that is what HQ tiles are for. If you own 100 tiles and disappear for any reason, the game should have a forcing function to return most of those assets into the economy; that is what we are getting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Slayer031992 said:

Mine to pay taxes, pay taxes to mine. HQ tiles were to be TAX FREE, NON-TAXABLE, TAX SHELTERS to give players an offset from the tax issues.

Keep in mind that not paying taxes on an HQ tile only disables industry/mining. You won't lose the tile. So if you don't want to log in and pay taxes for many weeks, that's fine, you also won't get the benefit of production; that is the trade-off, but you're not being forced to do the tax dance on HQ tiles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Read my post carefully Alpha Tester. Pay attention.

 

 

In the DevBlog they said that a million a month was getting poor reviews from the player base, and now they take it one step in the wrong direction. Mine to pay taxes, pay taxes to mine. HQ tiles were to be TAX FREE, NON-TAXABLE, TAX SHELTERS to give players an offset from the tax issues. Why have the DevBlog and a Q&A video if they aren't gonna stick by what they said. This is infuriating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...