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So NQ, I know your lazy af but can we talk about not wiping scans leading to Ore monopolies?


Warlander

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Its not about the fact that mega orgs already scanned everything and they can do it again scanning moons in a weekend or planets in a week or less.

 

You are litterally going to instantly let them monopolize T3-5 ore and litterally cut off any chance of anyone else ever making anything other than T2 elements or progressing if scans remain as they are and not wiping them.

 

Its either you wipe scans now or you are going to have to wipe the server before launch in order to balance the game that is beyond broken at this point.

 

Quit being lazy and do what you know needs to be done.

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8 minutes ago, Warlander said:

Its not about the fact that mega orgs already scanned everything and they can do it again scanning moons in a weekend or planets in a week or less.

 

You are litterally going to instantly let them monopolize T3-5 ore and litterally cut off any chance of anyone else ever making anything other than T2 elements or progressing if scans remain as they are and not wiping them.

 

Its either you wipe scans now or you are going to have to wipe the server before launch in order to balance the game that is beyond broken at this point.

 

Quit being lazy and do what you know needs to be done.


Just like the talent point reset rewards those who spec'ed already to hoard resources and quanta already. Just more poorly balanced decisions that widen the gap between those that have and those that have very little... the canyon of wealth inequality will soon be insurmountable for new players or those that didn't exploit in the beginning to have billions upon billions of quanta already.

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8 hours ago, Warlander said:

Its not about the fact that mega orgs already scanned everything and they can do it again scanning moons in a weekend or planets in a week or less.

 

You are litterally going to instantly let them monopolize T3-5 ore and litterally cut off any chance of anyone else ever making anything other than T2 elements or progressing if scans remain as they are and not wiping them.

 

Its either you wipe scans now or you are going to have to wipe the server before launch in order to balance the game that is beyond broken at this point.

 

Quit being lazy and do what you know needs to be done.

I watched a youtuber video today.  He says that the new ore type and amount are not based on what was there previously.  So, the scans will be useless.  If thats true, then is your question mute or am I missing something?

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41 minutes ago, Underhook said:

I watched a youtuber video today.  He says that the new ore type and amount are not based on what was there previously.  So, the scans will be useless.  If thats true, then is your question mute or am I missing something?

The scan values are reportedly being revised. However, the old scans will be updated. So they do have enormous value, because you can look through the scans within a few minutes and see where the great, valuable areas are.
So at the moment the values are only being changed in order to prevent people from running off and taking these areas.

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On 11/13/2021 at 7:17 AM, Underhook said:

I watched a youtuber video today.  He says that the new ore type and amount are not based on what was there previously.  So, the scans will be useless.  If thats true, then is your question mute or am I missing something?

 

The only thing to know is that Ore is now unlimited and it will just update what is in the tiles since the numbers dont mean anything other than the Liters per hour.

 

If you dont believe me:

 

https://youtu.be/rhoz6ynOKBQ

 

12:06-14:02 and them talking about infinite ore

17:53-18:30 More talking about infinite ore

23:44-26:56 Then talking about no wiping scans

30:14-31:01 They talk about ore distribution being rarer and more sparsely populated 

 

I tried to cut out Pann as much as possible. Pann is so great I could listen to her talk about herself for hours! She should start a dev Vlog called "Pannarama".

 

And still in this video they seem to double down that they are just wining it and will likely wipe and still they seem to suggest out of the other side of their mouth that even if/when it happens that there is a full wipe youll still keepyour scans to do it again.

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There is no infinite ore through the new Demeter system. That is simply a false calculation. The ore on the planets to mine would have lasted for years, this no longer exists.
But to say that mining unites makes the ore infinite is wrong. Because these units have been limited. There is a limit to the recharges and there is a limit to the number of players. So of course there is also a limit on the ore. The fewer players, the fewer ores are in circulation. The same with asteroids. These are limited to each week. If there were a lot of players in the game, the ore that could be mined would be limited by the number of players and the deposits on the asteroids. (At the same time, the PvP asteroids are an ore destroyer because materials from the system are also destroyed there every week).
So, in purely mathematical terms, the ore has now become less because the mining has been limited.

 

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20 hours ago, Warlander said:

The only thing to know is that Ore is now unlimited and it will just update what is in the tiles since the numbers dont mean anything other than the Liters per hour.

 

I get what you are saying and have some questions of my own for sure about part of your comments, but can we keep the personal jabs out of this as it's reallyy not productive and really crosses a line..

 

Other than that yes, the last VLOG certainly seems to indicate that, contrary what was said on the first one, scans really have no value anymore and with ore now being infinite, existing scans should be removed alltogether. 

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Fixed my jabs even though she said she loves hearing about all the creative ways to die an a fire her words not mine she openly asked for it.

 

But seriously though can NQ please just stop bringing her into vids until she can stay on point? Its not personal its just gaming.

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7 hours ago, Zarcata said:

There is no infinite ore through the new Demeter system. That is simply a false calculation. The ore on the planets to mine would have lasted for years, this no longer exists.
But to say that mining unites makes the ore infinite is wrong. Because these units have been limited. There is a limit to the recharges and there is a limit to the number of players. So of course there is also a limit on the ore. The fewer players, the fewer ores are in circulation. The same with asteroids. These are limited to each week. If there were a lot of players in the game, the ore that could be mined would be limited by the number of players and the deposits on the asteroids. (At the same time, the PvP asteroids are an ore destroyer because materials from the system are also destroyed there every week).
So, in purely mathematical terms, the ore has now become less because the mining has been limited.

 

 

Someone finally gets it.

 

The ore isnt infinate its super limited and even more limited by tier level when each tier is now "even more rare and sparsely populated". So we are getting less off the top, less in general, less location, and being pushed to spend and burn as much as possible to keep tiles and our arm bent to do limited 1 day content via asteroids or running missions which will grind to a hault with the limited ore pool to make space gas at some point soon due to the ore pool.

 

If the taxes start abandoning constructs and tiles there is no reason to play so the ore pool shrinks with everyone who gets litterally kicked from the game who goes on vaction, gets covid, etc for a month. You cant take a break and still there is not much reason to play even if you log on beyond topping off your miners or just letting your sanctuary tile run. 

 

If anything they are limiting many aspects of the game ore output, industry, combat, voxels/voxel complexity, quanta, and most of all progress. Never seen a sandbox where you cant do much and every time you want to grab a shovel they keep reaching for your wallet and telling you all the terms and conditions.

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9 hours ago, Zarcata said:

There is no infinite ore through the new Demeter system. That is simply a false calculation

 

You are looking at this the wrong way though. Previously, if you emptied out a tile you needed to find another.
Now, once you find a tile with ore you need, you have found an INFINITE supply of this ore without ever needing to look elsewhere.

 

This simple fact will change the entire foundation of the game and open up a good number of potential loopholes unless NQ really do their homework which so far they seem to not even realize they will need to do.

For one, it will become trivial to obtain unlimited amounts of T1-T3 ores very easily within the Alioth/Madis/Thades safe zone. This by itself will mostly limit the game to this area as the majority of the left playerbase is there, need no T4 or T5 ore and so has no need anymore to leave the safezone.. ever..

In the process Asteroid mining becomes irrelevant for his same group of players as well.

 

So it's not that the calculatoin is wrong, it's that you do not grasp the consequence of this, but you may now. 

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26 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

 

You are looking at this the wrong way though. Previously, if you emptied out a tile you needed to find another.
Now, once you find a tile with ore you need, you have found an INFINITE supply of this ore without ever needing to look elsewhere.

 

This simple fact will change the entire foundation of the game and open up a good number of potential loopholes unless NQ really do their homework which so far they seem to not even realize they will need to do.

For one, it will become trivial to obtain unlimited amounts of T1-T3 ores very easily within the Alioth/Madis/Thades safe zone. This by itself will mostly limit the game to this area as the majority of the left playerbase is there, need no T4 or T5 ore and so has no need anymore to leave the safezone.. ever..

In the process Asteroid mining becomes irrelevant for his same group of players as well.

 

So it's not that the calculatoin is wrong, it's that you do not grasp the consequence of this, but you may now. 

Nice summary. But unfortunately not quite right, in my opinion.
Just because you build something in a savezone doesn't mean you only need T1-3. There are also T4-5 voxels that look nice.
Likewise, I'm not a left leaning player, just because you want a game without war, in general, what's with the nod to politics? Are PvPers then all right-wingers or anarchists?
As a player, I didn't have to "search" for areas with ores, at most the mega deposits. The advantage of this, however, was that you can mine a lot more ore in a lot less time, which these autominer unfortunately can't do. So there is an artificial shortage. The whole game becomes slower. PvP becomes even more of a luxury and not fun content for everyone.

 

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54 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

 

You are looking at this the wrong way though. Previously, if you emptied out a tile you needed to find another.
Now, once you find a tile with ore you need, you have found an INFINITE supply of this ore without ever needing to look elsewhere.

 

This simple fact will change the entire foundation of the game and open up a good number of potential loopholes unless NQ really do their homework which so far they seem to not even realize they will need to do.

For one, it will become trivial to obtain unlimited amounts of T1-T3 ores very easily within the Alioth/Madis/Thades safe zone. This by itself will mostly limit the game to this area as the majority of the left playerbase is there, need no T4 or T5 ore and so has no need anymore to leave the safezone.. ever..

In the process Asteroid mining becomes irrelevant for his same group of players as well.

 

So it's not that the calculatoin is wrong, it's that you do not grasp the consequence of this, but you may now. 

 

Its not like a crypto mining pool where the less people = better hash rates. Less people = less ore entering the pool being converted to quanta to pay for the taxes and getting less while working more for it. Paired with less parts procuded, less pending capital for expansion/progression and pretty much turning the whole focus to owning tax free space stations and rendering atmo parts pretty much useless in the process. 

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56 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

Likewise, I'm not a left leaning player, just because you want a game without war, in general, what's with the nod to politics? Are PvPers then all right-wingers or anarchists?

 

Ehh. this comment makes absolutely zero sense. I certainly did not say anything to justify it nor have I ever. Anything you may have taken that way is entirely on you as I have no idea what would possible bring this on.

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18 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

 

You are looking at this the wrong way though. Previously, if you emptied out a tile you needed to find another.
Now, once you find a tile with ore you need, you have found an INFINITE supply of this ore without ever needing to look elsewhere.

 

This simple fact will change the entire foundation of the game and open up a good number of potential loopholes unless NQ really do their homework which so far they seem to not even realize they will need to do.

For one, it will become trivial to obtain unlimited amounts of T1-T3 ores very easily within the Alioth/Madis/Thades safe zone. This by itself will mostly limit the game to this area as the majority of the left playerbase is there, need no T4 or T5 ore and so has no need anymore to leave the safezone.. ever..

In the process Asteroid mining becomes irrelevant for his same group of players as well.

 

So it's not that the calculatoin is wrong, it's that you do not grasp the consequence of this, but you may now. 

I agree (and said so in an earlier post) about the significance of the unending ore supply from a territory. But I think you are making a classic mistake in assuming that since NQ has not announced a change there won't be one. Specifically, that there won't be a change in the location (planets & moons) and distribution (probability of a territory having) of higher tier ores.  I recall (hopefully correctly) one PTS forum post that reported no Alioth scans (presumably from a large number of scans)  had T3 ore.  There was also a question in the Vlog about hard to find ores to which the response admitted that rare ores will be harder to find they will still be found on the outer planets.


If T3+ ores are harder to find, then Asteroids may in fact be the principle source of higher tier ores for those not lucky enough to claim a territory supplying them (see first sentence above).

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As you referenced, NQ actually discussed this on the latest VLOG where it was specifically mentioned that T4-T5 ore was moving more to the outer planets and woudl be more sparse.

While true nothing specific was said on T1-T3 ores, I highly doubt NQ will nerf availablity of T2-T3 in the safezone.

 

The point is that even IF T3 ores are harder to find, once they are a supply will be availbale indefinite and with the arrival of HQ tiles, such a stock woudl be available to mine only when needed on a week to week basis with taxes paid only when mining is planned and no risk of losing the tile claim otherwise.

And t4/T5 ores really do not play much of a part in the game outside of the look of some voxel materials if you for amoment exclude PVP from the argument And just so this does not get misunderstood, I am not saying PVP is not important or irrelevant here.. I'm saying that for a relative large group of remaining players, it's less of a focus so for them , the need to even consider leaving the safe zone is pretty much removed as is the need to go look for asteroids.

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