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Demeter will probably Kill the game if it goes to live servers..


Hagbard
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31 minutes ago, Alias said:

imagine all the advertised ships in the past which would not even look likewise they were initially if they need to reposition their elements(brakes for now)

not only the tons of community ships, also many of your own designs (which are shown at website, youtube, insta-

posts...)

 

what would they look like without their good looking outer voxel designs o.O

 

grafik.thumb.png.6c11c5642a00265c544f48837af4eb0c.png


Maybe you should post the real ships from DualUniverse there. What does a metaship for PvP really look like at the moment?
What do space freighters really look like?
It's a big block of elements to be efficient. Style? NO! Because that would increase weight and dimensions and thus fuel consumption, as well as the chance of being hit, of course.

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On 11/1/2021 at 7:30 PM, RugesV said:

And JC was like and they are paying a monthly fee on those territories, to which he was corrected that we were not, and he was like well we need to fix that. 

 

You do know JC was kicked out and left the company entirely right (the latter confirmed by NQ on Discord)

 

The point is not that there needs to be upkeep for territories, just like the point was never that schematics for industry were not a good idea. The point is that NQ does not seem to actually think about and/or rezlize the consequences of their actions and seems to think tha they need to "correct" or "manage" how we play the game.

 

The notion that taxes may create incentive for players to "do more" in itself is not terrible.. The fact that NQ seems to not realize that they first need to get a LOT of players in and paying a sub for that to make any difference, really is baffling to me.

The whole territory taxation idea is the right idea for all the wrong reasons, implemented in a terrible way that will only end up being counter productive.

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On 10/30/2021 at 3:34 AM, Physics said:

Given that the new system does not need to reseed the ground to reset the ore. NQ could always make it a feature of the land efficiency maps changing/resetting to new values every 3-6 months or so.  This will drastically lower the need for hefty safe zone territory taxes and give new and returning players an even chance to discover the rare territories later on in the game. ?‍♂️ 

I so hope NQ is reading this!

Best idea yet and it harks back to finding ore in SWG, the good old mining days may be coming back in a new game called DU.

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If NQ has changed their plans to expand the universe and drive players in a way they will venture out then resetting what's in the ground every 6 months or so would not be a terrible idea. At he same time though, that reset would need to be random so that you will not have bots parked on a tile with high value ores, just mining it every cycle.

 

The whole problem with the territory claims is that they were supposed to drive communities to build cities and create their own facilities. More and more that is hollowed out to only being mining and/or industry as nothing else is really provided for and NQ has yet to give any indication on where those intial plans have gone. The whole metaverse idea really is nowhere to be seen at this time.

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Ah, DU, the game that advertised that you could "build anything" and "be anyone". 

 

Can't build big factories, it takes a ton of schematics -- not worth the grind 

Can't build factory ships, because...

Can't build cities, because money (even though they talked about cities and claimed their tech was "cutting edge") 

Can't have massive battles -- if you try too often, they'll probably implement time dilation lol (because this is the nature of single shard, NQ wasn't being 'innovative', they just didn't understand the tech or its limits) 

Can't own a hex without paying a government that has no law or lore or NPCs

Can't even design a ship without them changing how elements work this late into a supposed "beta" -- doesn't bother me that much, but they've had 7+ years, people, they could have figured out how brakes work by now

Can't do territory war, who knows when that'll be a thing

Can't do AvA, maybe ever, who knows 

 

To be fair, DU still has some of the best building tools -- among my favorite things is simply flying around and seeing what other people have made. Even that might start to vanish as taxes kick in. NQ still has time to balance it, but no one knows if they will because they never bother to communicate.

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7 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

If NQ has changed their plans to expand the universe and drive players in a way they will venture out then resetting what's in the ground every 6 months or so would not be a terrible idea. At he same time though, that reset would need to be random so that you will not have bots parked on a tile with high value ores, just mining it every cycle.

 

The whole problem with the territory claims is that they were supposed to drive communities to build cities and create their own facilities. More and more that is hollowed out o only bieng mining and/or industry as nothing else is really provided for and NQ has yet to give any indication on where those intial plans have gone. The whole metaverse idea really is nowhere to be seen at this time.

Resources will never incentivise city building as that is more of a social structure mechanic. City building design solution would be more like this.

 

Social. DU has a couple of novelty cities that has popped up but there is absolutely no use for them. Cities are currently nothing more than empty ghost towns with the only purpose of filling up your voxel cache. Possible solution to this is too introduce a residency mechanic to give towns and cities a purpose. Mechanic could work as followed: Every character created has 2 possible residency declarations. A player can use these to declare residency on a static or space core. When a territory reaches a certain amount of resident players the territory owner can declare the territory as a village. This will give all residents certain bonuses while within the territory and some lesser bonuses for visitors. Bonuses could be anything from Indy to put down skills. As the territory gets more residents it can evolve to a town, city and metropolis. As it evolves the bonuses gets bigger and better and once you reach city state neighbouring territories with the same owner can share resident count and bonuses so expansion can continue.

 

 

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I get that @Physics

 

My point is that (IMO) the TU was meant to be a tool to claim land and build your (community) infrastructure there, more than a tool to be able to mine by itself. It really became only the latter as not much else happens anymore in game.

 

Day 1 of pre beta after the wipe, the exploit with wrecks causes many to warp out within an hour and scan for/claim tiles all over the place with high tier ore for later use. That was never intended but NQ never fixed that (and things snowballed from there).

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The idea of building large cities in the game already fails because it makes no sense to build a large city. What do you want with it? Some dream of building big office complexes (for what?) others really think they can rent out housing to other players. (Why? When each player has their own land anyway and can build there themselves?)

I see several cities under construction, but they are all empty and without function. Somewhat reminiscent of the Chinese metropolises without inhabitants that were built to compensate for population growth. Here again the thinking error, DualUniverse is not real life: in the game every player has property and can build without problems.

There are then still some attempts in the game to build free markets, mostly by single players like Gottchar or even smaller groups. Many of them are now simply inactive. What is the point of flying for hours through the worlds if the regular markets also offer everything? (Well, in the meantime, many products are no longer offered thanks to declining player numbers and a correspondingly declining supply...)

Back to the topic: a city has no use. Moreover, it is hardly possible to divide up a city sensibly with the rights system. On the one hand, the land ownership of the areas is a problem, on the other hand, the constructs there and distances to other constructs, as well as offline players who prevent further building by blocking.

I think there are at least two problems: firstly, that the system could not handle a metropolis (whether with or without players in it) in terms of performance, and secondly, that such a city has no use and could not be built at all due to a lack of rights.

 

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39 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

The idea of building large cities in the game already fails because it makes no sense to build a large city. What do you want with it? Some dream of building big office complexes (for what?) others really think they can rent out housing to other players. (Why? When each player has their own land anyway and can build there themselves?)

I see several cities under construction, but they are all empty and without function. Somewhat reminiscent of the Chinese metropolises without inhabitants that were built to compensate for population growth. Here again the thinking error, DualUniverse is not real life: in the game every player has property and can build without problems.

There are then still some attempts in the game to build free markets, mostly by single players like Gottchar or even smaller groups. Many of them are now simply inactive. What is the point of flying for hours through the worlds if the regular markets also offer everything? (Well, in the meantime, many products are no longer offered thanks to declining player numbers and a correspondingly declining supply...)

Back to the topic: a city has no use. Moreover, it is hardly possible to divide up a city sensibly with the rights system. On the one hand, the land ownership of the areas is a problem, on the other hand, the constructs there and distances to other constructs, as well as offline players who prevent further building by blocking.

I think there are at least two problems: firstly, that the system could not handle a metropolis (whether with or without players in it) in terms of performance, and secondly, that such a city has no use and could not be built at all due to a lack of rights.

 

 

I think cities will make more sense in PVP zone once territory warfare is a thing. But I don't see them functioning exactly like IRL cities, mainly just military bases, trade hubs, or event locations. And with territory taxes, maybe you'd want to rent a plot for storage on some planet instead of claiming a tile.

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1 hour ago, Zarcata said:

The idea of building large cities in the game already fails because it makes no sense to build a large city. What do you want with it? Some dream of building big office complexes (for what?) others really think they can rent out housing to other players. (Why? When each player has their own land anyway and can build there themselves?)

I see several cities under construction, but they are all empty and without function. Somewhat reminiscent of the Chinese metropolises without inhabitants that were built to compensate for population growth. Here again the thinking error, DualUniverse is not real life: in the game every player has property and can build without problems.

There are then still some attempts in the game to build free markets, mostly by single players like Gottchar or even smaller groups. Many of them are now simply inactive. What is the point of flying for hours through the worlds if the regular markets also offer everything? (Well, in the meantime, many products are no longer offered thanks to declining player numbers and a correspondingly declining supply...)

Back to the topic: a city has no use. Moreover, it is hardly possible to divide up a city sensibly with the rights system. On the one hand, the land ownership of the areas is a problem, on the other hand, the constructs there and distances to other constructs, as well as offline players who prevent further building by blocking.

I think there are at least two problems: firstly, that the system could not handle a metropolis (whether with or without players in it) in terms of performance, and secondly, that such a city has no use and could not be built at all due to a lack of rights.

 

Idea I just posted would be a basis to a viable solution to social cities. To expand on it further yeh we need the D from RDMS.

 

City management mechanics could work similar to organisations with residents instead of members and mayor instead of super-legate so NQ has a head start on development. Will you join a city of democracy or dictatorship? 

 

Remember if established cities offered bonuses to industry or even put down skills this means if you wanted a game capped ship it would need the finished touch of a city bonus. 
 

As for FPS/Performance this is a game wide problem effecting everything. Something NQ will be constantly working on and for city planners to design in mind. Again Duties will help with this planning and management.

 


 

 

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On 10/30/2021 at 8:15 AM, RugesV said:

I also dont like the max 3 months pre fund limit. 

I think you are on the right track here.  Different costs for different activities.  I think a checkbox that you select. For instance, Mineral rights that you check if you want to mine. Industrial rights if you want to do industry, storage rights if you want to use containers. market rights if you want to place dispensers. Build rights if you want to place static constructs.  With a fee that you can opt in or out of for each and basic tax for owning the property. 

 

So 100K a week for claiming the tile as a mandatory fee. 

50k to build

150k to storage

200k to sell

250k for industry

250k for mining

 

So you could have your territory for as little as 100k.   If you just want to build on the territory it would cost you 150k a week.  If you just wanted to mine on a territory you would need to build, storage and mining. it would cost you 600k per week (initial, build, storage mining).  Same for industry. 600k.  Or if you wanted to do everything it would be 1,000,000 a week. 

 

However there should be a tax. Because the real reason behind the tax system is to get rid of abandoned territories. (although sanctuary is always free for you forever. 

 

That would just allow orgs to tie up resource rich tiles and sit on them till they're ready to mine.

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So NQ needs a way to dump all this crap so when you fly over alioth the old crap is not loaded from DB and they don't pay AWS.

 

So they make taxes as 99% of playerbase already left and will just lose their "civilization building mark" as their terris will abandon.

 

 

Ok. I just usually see companies doing more than erasing people stuff to get players back. It should just be French logic that I don't get.

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We were always told our stuff would only be safe on the sanctuary moon if we left the game long term. 

 

Taxes are a means to remove inactive players and give us salvaging opportunities. 

 

The scans we have were obtained by fair game play. Keeping them seems acceptable as the time was invested in the game to explore that hex. 

 

 

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Every successful sub-based MMO has only one interest when it comes to inactive players: get them to resubscribe. 

 

Why do you think Netflix makes it so easy for you to pause or cancel? They know that at some point you'll come crawling back and don't want to piss you off in the meantime. 

 

I get that they need a way to reclaim tiles to save money....but they are severely limiting the appeal of resubscribing. Even if their churn rate were low, that would be a problem long-term. 

 

Without AvA or territory war, opening these dead tiles to first-come salvage is a weird idea -- make a way for the owner to reclaim (most) of the mats and delete it, don't just throw it into the wind and shrug at the concept of resubs. 

 

Majorly counterproductive for NQ's bottom line. 

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7 hours ago, blundertwink said:

Every successful sub-based MMO has only one interest when it comes to inactive players: get them to resubscribe. 

 

Why do you think Netflix makes it so easy for you to pause or cancel? They know that at some point you'll come crawling back and don't want to piss you off in the meantime. 

 

I get that they need a way to reclaim tiles to save money....but they are severely limiting the appeal of resubscribing. Even if their churn rate were low, that would be a problem long-term. 

 

Without AvA or territory war, opening these dead tiles to first-come salvage is a weird idea -- make a way for the owner to reclaim (most) of the mats and delete it, don't just throw it into the wind and shrug at the concept of resubs. 

 

Majorly counterproductive for NQ's bottom line. 

Not going to re-sub just to save items in a game that is likely to die after this patch goes live.  The people that think this is great because of all the salvaging are not thinking this through.  Short term fun at the cost of paying players returning.  Game over.

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12 hours ago, FalloutWB said:

Not going to re-sub just to save items in a game that is likely to die after this patch goes live.  The people that think this is great because of all the salvaging are not thinking this through.  Short term fun at the cost of paying players returning.  Game over.

Going to ask this again, how can a game die which is not even live yet?  Some people on here need to get over themselves, you are beta testers lol

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3 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

Going to ask this again, how can a game die which is not even live yet?  Some people on here need to get over themselves, you are beta testers lol

 

Games die before going live all the time....it's extremely common. 

 

And it's been in development for 7+ years now, it isn't like this is some brand new thing that just hit beta and is still early in the dev process. 

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12 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

 

Games die before going live all the time....it's extremely common. 

 

And it's been in development for 7+ years now, it isn't like this is some brand new thing that just hit beta and is still early in the dev process. 

Ok just saying that 80% of the people I know who could enjoy this game, either dont really know about it or havent played it (wont sub a beta).  I wont recommend it yet, whilst I enjoy it, I know it is not ready for most of my friends (getting there though).  It has not had any sort of Steam launch or Epic etc  Presuming because NQ dont think it is ready for that, look at Starbase.  The people who are here are the early adopters but could probably ALL quit and the game could still be launched, as long as NQ has the funded to complete development.  The fact they havent dumped on Steam or similar suggests that could be the case.

I have only ever played the game causally, because it is a beta, I dont recommend it because it is a beta, ok, I understand that some players have gone hardcore and that is their choice but I strongly doubt that more than 10% of the potential market has tried the game.  As I said, think some people need to get over themselves a bit and look longer term.

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@Kobayashi I just answered you in the other thread, but I will do the same here also.

 

NQ has strongly hinted that the game will be released by the end of this year. So Demeter going live is pretty much going to be the "finished" game they are going to release.

Is the game ready to be released? No, not even close. But as mentioned, NQ has been going in circles for many years now, and they are running out of money.

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4 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

@Kobayashi I just answered you in the other thread, but I will do the same here also.

 

NQ has strongly hinted that the game will be released by the end of this year. So Demeter going live is pretty much going to be the "finished" game they are going to release.

Is the game ready to be released? No, not even close. But as mentioned, NQ has been going in circles for many years now, and they are running out of money.

This will be the death of the game.

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