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Demeter will probably Kill the game if it goes to live servers..


Hagbard
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I also dont like the max 3 months pre fund limit. 

1 minute ago, Hagbard said:

maybe we could have a new Mining Territory Unit.. if you use that, you will be able to use mining units and the high tax is due for that tile.
but if you use a standard TCU, it will remove all ore pool values from the tile permanently ( or for e.g. 3 months) but it will only cost a one time fee similar to as it is today,

this would allow content creators to get tiles for their projects and only if you ever plan to mine on a territory you would use the other new MTCU. This would stop people from massivley claiming minable tiles.

I think you are on the right track here.  Different costs for different activities.  I think a checkbox that you select. For instance, Mineral rights that you check if you want to mine. Industrial rights if you want to do industry, storage rights if you want to use containers. market rights if you want to place dispensers. Build rights if you want to place static constructs.  With a fee that you can opt in or out of for each and basic tax for owning the property. 

 

So 100K a week for claiming the tile as a mandatory fee. 

50k to build

150k to storage

200k to sell

250k for industry

250k for mining

 

So you could have your territory for as little as 100k.   If you just want to build on the territory it would cost you 150k a week.  If you just wanted to mine on a territory you would need to build, storage and mining. it would cost you 600k per week (initial, build, storage mining).  Same for industry. 600k.  Or if you wanted to do everything it would be 1,000,000 a week. 

 

However there should be a tax. Because the real reason behind the tax system is to get rid of abandoned territories. (although sanctuary is always free for you forever. 

 

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14 minutes ago, kulkija said:

Territory taxes will kill this game.

- Call To Action – Say NO to territory taxes - 

No taxes on sanctuary.

36 minutes ago, RugesV said:

I also dont like the max 3 months pre fund limit. 

I think you are on the right track here.  Different costs for different activities.  I think a checkbox that you select. For instance, Mineral rights that you check if you want to mine. Industrial rights if you want to do industry, storage rights if you want to use containers. market rights if you want to place dispensers. Build rights if you want to place static constructs.  With a fee that you can opt in or out of for each and basic tax for owning the property. 

 

So 100K a week for claiming the tile as a mandatory fee. 

50k to build

150k to storage

200k to sell

250k for industry

250k for mining

 

So you could have your territory for as little as 100k.   If you just want to build on the territory it would cost you 150k a week.  If you just wanted to mine on a territory you would need to build, storage and mining. it would cost you 600k per week (initial, build, storage mining).  Same for industry. 600k.  Or if you wanted to do everything it would be 1,000,000 a week. 

 

However there should be a tax. Because the real reason behind the tax system is to get rid of abandoned territories. (although sanctuary is always free for you forever. 

 

Yeah, i think it will be good.

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As someone focused on building, not making money, I definitely support the idea of creating an option for people to own a tile just to build on, or even just to preserve it. As an example, I have claimed a ring of territories around a central territory I am building a city on, just to create a buffer zone that prevents other players from building too close to the city. Simply getting together the money to maintain these seven tiles would force me to spend a lot of time playing money-making activities such as delivery missions and asteroid mining. Not a fan of that idea at all.

 

I like Ruges' idea with taxation based on tile use.

 

I'm also totally on board with deleting old scanner results, or at least not having them show the "new" ores. Besides the obvious issue of scan collectors having a huge advantage when it comes to ore hunting, there's no logical explanation for the old scanner results (that might have been taken a year ago) to suddenly become up-to-date when they didn't refresh before.

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Much like Helvetian, I have done the same thing, where I claimed tiles around where I was building for a buffer. I do also perform money making activities in the game, but I have claimed tiles just for their natural beauty and then build on them. It would be a shame to just give these tiles up because they are not profitable.

 

Taxes in real life are based on the assessed value of the land and the zoning of said land. There should be an option to own land without mining.

 

I also feel that the adjacency bonus, while a good mechanic for auto-mining, is contrary to the goal of creating cities and empires in the game. If players are encouraged to claim land in clumps of tiles, we won't connect together as the game world grows. In many areas this won't be an issue, but on Alioth, Freeport, some places on Madis, I could see this being a problem.

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Existing deployed territory units have incurred the usual exponential deployment costs. By changing to a recurring tax, how is the current deployment cost integrated with the new tax? For example, a 4 million Quanta deployment fee paid one month before the beginning of this new tax for that same territory? 
 
Possibly refund Quanta equal to the difference between what was paid prior to the Demeter update and the new tax, pro-rated by the length of time the territory unit has been deployed.
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19 hours ago, Hagbard said:

1. Territory costs of 1m per week:

Ok, that's it. If this goes live then I am out.

 

I have been hanging around but not really played actively for a long time now, waiting for NQ to make a game that is fun to play again.

But if NQ is this far removed from reality, then there is no reason to wait around any more because the ship is no longer sinking but well and truly sunk.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Selena said:
Existing deployed territory units have incurred the usual exponential deployment costs. By changing to a recurring tax, how is the current deployment cost integrated with the new tax? For example, a 4 million Quanta deployment fee paid one month before the beginning of this new tax for that same territory? 
 
Possibly refund Quanta equal to the difference between what was paid prior to the Demeter update and the new tax, pro-rated by the length of time the territory unit has been deployed.


I have a set of tiles I paid 400million for. I won't get anything back. Some tiles were 34mill+ each...

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I like the idea of territory tax, except for sanctuary tile.

It will release tiles of unactive players, allow us to delete unused space elevators, ...

 

And the price doesn't matter.

- 1M per week is your social warfare if you are connecting daily.

- we live in Zimbabwe style hyperinflation economy. The 1M number looks to be high now, but in few weeks ... 

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It seems like tax rate shouldn't just be a constant but some function of player activity instead.  In other words, as the active playerbase increases, so does the tax rate and vice versa.  Perhaps derive this from a percentage of market trading volume?  If the economy is healthy a tax rate as a counterbalance to inflation makes a lot of sense.  If the economy is cold (i.e. like it is now), taxes will kill it.

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I actually reinstalled PTS to check this update and can only agree with OP. This update will pretty much kill what's left of the game. To do anything interesting, you need territory, to own territory you need to put in a _lot_ of effort, to the extent there is not much time left for the fun part, just to keep it.

 

I fear that due to financial limitations though, NQ will just go with this one weekend and push the update.

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17 hours ago, helvetian said:

there's no logical explanation for the old scanner results (that might have been taken a year ago) to suddenly become up-to-date when they didn't refresh before.

This is a really valid point and may have just changed my mind on this particular point.  Ore scans never updated before, based on ore being extracted so it doesn't actually make sense to have them updated for this expansion.  Just because they technically *can* update them, doesn't mean they should.    Good point.

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1 hour ago, Jake Arver said:

I fear that due to financial limitations though, NQ will just go with this one weekend and push the update.

Can you provide us any proof of these financial limitations or are you just making stuff up based on information you think you know but actually don't know?  

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3 hours ago, tomasco said:

 

- we live in Zimbabwe style hyperinflation economy. The 1M number looks to be high now, but in few weeks ... 

 

The problem is it's NQ game design decisions that are CAUSING the inflation rate. Introducing missions caused the first spike in ore prices by giving an afk money-making mechanism, that could and was abused by multi-alt holding players and taking miners away.

 

Now by deliberately restricting the ore production rate, ore prices will again be inflated, this time by multiples of the original inflation rate, that will kill the game markets for just about everything, as both there will not be the needed amount of ore to support the game play and no-one will be able to afford the ore prices that do end up on the market.

 

The current ore prices are ridiculous, but imagine the consequences of ore prices being even anywhere near 1000q per litre of T1 ?

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haven't really played since industry update.   but have been logging in daily to check skill queue.  I own 1 tile on sanc moon, 1 on aiolith.  just been waiting for pve stuff to be implemented.. (hate pvp)  if this territory tax goes in.. in ANY amount of quanta I am gone and will never check back.  mining change is crap, I sorta like hand mining I don't want a damn ore ATM.    industry change really put a dent in my will to play..   this change IS THE LAST NAIL. 

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8 minutes ago, CaptRiker said:

haven't really played since industry update.   but have been logging in daily to check skill queue.  I own 1 tile on sanc moon, 1 on aiolith.  just been waiting for pve stuff to be implemented.. (hate pvp)  if this territory tax goes in.. in ANY amount of quanta I am gone and will never check back.  mining change is crap, I sorta like hand mining I don't want a damn ore ATM.    industry change really put a dent in my will to play..   this change IS THE LAST NAIL. 

seems to me you quit long ago and your one tile on alioth could be paid by your daily login alone, i for one want the taxes system and get rid of all the quiters that have left there shit everywhere about time we had a clean up

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42 minutes ago, loaded said:

seems to me you quit long ago and your one tile on alioth could be paid by your daily login alone, i for one want the taxes system and get rid of all the quiters that have left there shit everywhere about time we had a clean up

Daily Login is 150k. Rent is 1mil a week. 

Nice. 50k weekly profit. You might be able to buy something with that. Maybe. Someday.  Eventually. 

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12 hours ago, kulkija said:


It is NQ:s game designers and their weird believes about what is fun is what will kill this game.

 

- Call To Action – Say NO to territory taxes - 

 

NQ has game designers? I wonder what they even do...

 

Their game isn't really designed, it's a series of reactions and vague ideas slapped together as they go. 

 

The funny thing to me is that these changes won't likely help the game scale technically. It will force more player density around Sanctuary, which will be especially bad around release. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Xarius said:

Daily Login is 150k. Rent is 1mil a week. 

Nice. 50k weekly profit. You might be able to buy something with that. Maybe. Someday.  Eventually. 

so you want everything for free ?  this is a open world game where you earn money to pay for things etc, or do you just save your daily login money and wait until you have enough ? 

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57 minutes ago, loaded said:

seems to me you quit long ago and your one tile on alioth could be paid by your daily login alone, i for one want the taxes system and get rid of all the quiters that have left there shit everywhere about time we had a clean up

That could still be achieved without a tax system that punishes the casual player. Likewise, 3 months is not enough for some- what about men/women in military service? Or heck, those that get sick and are unable to play for extended period of time? Even with low taxes with a years worth of time, it'd still allow a cleanup of the landscape of those that quit loooong ago.

The taxation system doesn't feel like much to the "whales" in this game I've talked to- but not everyone is loaded with quanta, nor plays every-day. Some people I know play once a week, and for many of them this system is largely a let-down with the combination of taxes and perceived low ore outputs of auto-miners.

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4 minutes ago, loaded said:

so you want everything for free ?  this is a open world game where you earn money to pay for things etc, or do you just save your daily login money and wait until you have enough ? 

No, I want the ability to pay for the things I have, without having to play annoying mini-games, and own 36 auto-miners to run a simple factory. 

I want a mission system that can't be exploited by having 20 alts AFKing and VRing into missions by limiting the number of mission packages a core can hold.

I want the players building the "civilization" to define the economy, not have it sucked away by an invisible entity with no gain. 

I want the developers to listen to the majority of people who have said at the current rate of tax and ore collection, this is a bad idea and is going to lead to less people enjoying and playing the game. Rather than the two or three people that align with their idea of "We do what we want and you'll get over it".

I want a new player to be able to log in and not feel like they are stuck on Sanctuary surface mining, mindlessly clicking ores like it's Cookie Clicker and not Dual Universe, to be able to pay for the over-priced components to build decent ships, that don't look like works of art covered in brake stickers.

That's what I want.

What do YOU want? Besides paying a useless tax.

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5 minutes ago, BlindingBright said:

That could still be achieved without a tax system that punishes the casual player. Likewise, 3 months is not enough for some- what about men/women in military service? Or heck, those that get sick and are unable to play for extended period of time? Even with low taxes with a years worth of time, it'd still allow a cleanup of the landscape of those that quit loooong ago.

The taxation system doesn't feel like much to the "whales" in this game I've talked to- but not everyone is loaded with quanta, nor plays every-day. Some people I know play once a week, and for many of them this system is largely a let-down with the combination of taxes and perceived low ore outputs of auto-miners.

yea i guess now you put it like that i understand but something needs to be done you cant leave every tom, dick and harrys tile claimed, look at alioth 40,000 plus claimed damn we dont even have no where near that amount of  players so how do u suggest we get them tiles unclaimed before or even if this game goes live ? if you like it or not the tax systems works but no matter what people will complain about what ever happens 

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