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Market fix for industry Parts, Products and Pures (PPP)


Peabody

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The industry market for PPP is nonexistent. There are two main causes: Nobody can make PPP for significantly less, so the prices must be close to what a player with high talents could make themselves [1]. Second, supply is erratic when buying from a market and stable when players make PPP themselves [2].

 

The solution is to change the industry talents. First, for PPP talents that give a 3% per level bonus, double them to 6% per level [3]. Second, add new talents for parts similar to the "6%" talents (making large batches instead of fractional parts.) Third, limit the number of talents a player can train to 20 in each group: [4]

1. Refining ore to Pures and smelting Products (45; 20 ores + 25 products)

2. Intermediary, Structural and Complex Parts (131 parts)

3. Functional and Exceptional Parts (189 parts)

 

Limiting talents that can be trained means players will need to sell PPP they have talents for and buy the other PPP. The margins of each PPP will compound quickly. It will be much cheaper for players who use the market, and more expensive for players that try to do everything themselves.

 

Giga-Factories, which make everything themselves, will need to use the market as well -- there are simply too many PPP for a group to make them all with level 5 talents. Today a few players and a handful of alts can make all PPP with level 5 talents, but if the number of talents for each player are limited they will need many, many more players to do the same. [5] Solo players and small groups will benefit with a viable market of PPP for them to buy and sell from.

 

Redistributing talent points would be necessary to make this work, both at the start and ongoing. Players must be allowed to change which PPP talents they have so that they can adapt to new groups and changing markets. NQ can place restrictions on how often changes can be made (1 week) and any penalties (I say none).

 

Lastly, PPP and elements will no longer have easily calculated costs, relative to the price of ore. Today we know what an expensive element costs to make, because we know what talents we have at each stage of making PPP. If we are buying many PPP items from the market at differing prices we will need to estimate the cost. Players will raise prices to cover uncertainty, and buy based on need more than price.

 

~Peabody

 

[1] For example, 65L of Coal makes 45L Carbon. What does it cost to make one liter of Carbon?

With no talents: 65 / 45 = 1.444 (44.4% higher than the cost of Coal.)

With level 5 talents: 55.25 / 51.75 = 1.067 (6.7% higher than the cost of Coal.) 15% less Coal needed and 15% more Carbon made: (65*0.85) / (45*1.15)

 

This is a ~37.7% difference in cost. In theory Carbon could be sold for ~18% higher price than it costs to make, and bought for ~18% cheaper than the player with no talents could make it. So why is the market empty? Because there are no buyers without talents. **The players focusing on industry have industry talents.** In practice the difference would be more like a player with level 3 talents and a player with level 5 talents.

With level 3 talents: 59.15 / 49.05 = 1.205 (20.5% higher than the cost of Coal.)

This is a ~13.8% difference in cost. There isn't enough margin to share.

 

[2] PPP that players (currently) make themselves is low or lower in cost than what others can sell PPP for. It's timely, used as soon as available. It doesn't require large amounts of capital to buy PPP ahead of time, and it doesn't need to be transported. The price difference needs to be large enough to overcome all these advantages.

[3] Higher talent bonuses of 6% per level, totaling 30% at level 5, instead of 15% today.

New level 5 talents: (65*0.70) / (45*1.30), or 45.5 / 58.5 = 0.777 (22.2% LOWER than the cost of Coal.) The margin between level 0 talents and level 5 would be ~66.6%. Enough margin that both buyer and seller can benefit.

 

[4] There are two talents for each Pure and Product. One talent reduces the amount needed and the other talent increases the amount produced. Talents for parts would need similar bonuses. Training 20 talents in each group would allow a player to have both level 5 talents for 10 different PPP items.

 

[5] If NQ were to add new game mechanic forcing players to restart industry machines once a week, Giga-Factories would be an organizational nightmare. There would be no choice but to work in smaller groups.

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You shouldn't calculate the market only according to ore prices, it just doesn't work.
The ore price has two indicators: buy order and sell order. These are usually quite far apart, so what a player is willing to pay and what a seller wants - two different worlds.
The industrialist who farms his ores himself to start production can choose a price as he likes. The other producer, who simply buys ores on the market to start his industry, is bound to the market price at the purchase price - but at the same time can be undercut at any time, whether with or without skills.

The economy in the game is not comparable to the real economy, as we have no wages or other costs in mining the ores. The only thing that counts here is the time to mine.

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7 hours ago, Gottchar said:

I fail to see the issue you want to fix

The industry market for PPP is nonexistent. We should be buying and selling more than just ore. There should be a market for Pures, Products and Parts.

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