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INSIDE NOVAQUARK: DEMETER EDITION - Discussion Thread


NQ-Deckard
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Until right now I had impression that I own my land (tiles)

I've bought my land from a monopoly which owns all land in DU:s universe.

 

What happens at next patch is Nationalization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalization

Land which I own and had paid big quanta will be robbed from me.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Zireaa said:

Hears a question what happens two  all my voxels and elements if I lose my land I spent months or a year  getting it better be in my inventory  

Once you stop paying upkeep your industry and mining units stop working. You then have 1-2 months (they are still deciding the time frame) to start paying, or take your stuff off  the territory. If you completely ignore it , it will become unowned and other players can then come claim it (although still sounds like they are working details). 

 

Now with that said, If you spent all that time collecting those elements and voxels, why are you going to carelessly abandon it?  And if you do got to go AFK for a couple months, Just top up your reserves so it does not deplete for a year or two.  Or even better build a space station instead of a Territory so you dont have to pay upkeep. 

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Hey NQ,

 

This would be a great opportunity to finally fix static BP placement!

 

All you need to do is make static BP snap to the construct you're on, the same way new cores do. [EDIT: Maybe also add a way to indicate which direction the BP is facing. Or an ‘undo’/quick demolish for when you place it facing the wrong way.]

 

This will allow anyone who wants to relocate their base due to terrain changes, or to avoid having to redo their terraforming, to save their base as BPs, and relocate a multi-core structure (which is currently an absolute nightmare).

 

I have my tower up on dirt piles, and a ramp. I don't really want to redo it all, but the geometry reset will leave my tower hovering in the air, inaccessible (and you've only built a tool for digging underground?) If you made it possible to snap static BPs to on another I could just drop it all down to ground level.

 

Thanks in advance. ;) 

820446940_gbyedirt.png

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2 hours ago, Megabosslord said:

Hey NQ,

 

This would be a great opportunity to finally fix static BP placement!

 

All you need to do is make static BP snap to the construct you're on, the same way new cores do. [EDIT: Maybe also add a way to indicate which direction the BP is facing. Or an ‘undo’/quick demolish for when you place it facing the wrong way.]

 

This will allow anyone who wants to relocate their base due to terrain changes, or to avoid having to redo their terraforming, to save their base as BPs, and relocate a multi-core structure (which is currently an absolute nightmare).

 

I have my tower up on dirt piles, and a ramp. I don't really want to redo it all, but the geometry reset will leave my tower hovering in the air, inaccessible (and you've only built a tool for digging underground?) If you made it possible to snap static BPs to on another I could just drop it all down to ground level.

 

Thanks in advance. ;) 

820446940_gbyedirt.png

Oh, PS: Since the only way to get dirt to recreate the terraforming above is to dig underground, I’m still going to have to dig underground galleries if I have to rebuild this. So maybe if you don’t want people still digging everywhere to get piles of dirt to terraform like this, give us a way to make or mine dirt. 

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2 hours ago, kulkija said:

Problem:
Players digging way too much tunnels

Solution:

Do nothing to limit tunnels digging.

Instead ban Mining

 

What I'm missing....

Sure, they could have made ore shallower, in a single lump. Or moved it to the surface. Or, made super-large longer lasting asteroids. Or, allowed vertical shafts only to lower tunnel poly count. Or, just made old tunnels collapse. But it’s a bit like when there were problems with screens: instead of whacking moles to fix the issue, they chose to throw out 30 yrs of accumulated development by thousands of the smartest people on earth creating HTML5 and make their own API. Hubris? Maybe. Could fail? Sure. Annoying for many? Yes. But even when it hurts - creating rework, mooting practiced skills and systems for beta players - I still hope their ambition, their unorthodox experimentation, the bold strokes, pay off. 

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What interests me about the whole thing, is this change being made purely for performance and the resulting high costs, and left in place accordingly in perpetuity, or is there the possibility at a later date, if it could be made better from a "programming" point of view, or if finances allow, of a return to ground mining?
In general, I think the player should be given the freedom to choose how to mine ores or quanta. Not just one option, but several. 
- Soil mining
- Asteroid mining
- Surface mining
- automining by drill
- ...

Other mechanics that regenerate quanta also belong in the game

- Mission system
- Ore bots on the market (Do they still exist?)
- Unique quanta through the tutorials
- ...?

We certainly agree that DualUniverse will need another 3-5 years before it becomes a good and stable game that can be released. Accordingly, we should use this time to create opportunities to steer the game in a good direction so that it will be successful.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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On 10/22/2021 at 2:35 AM, CoyoteNZ said:

We definably need a talent respec.

 

I'm an underground miner, but have never been to an asteroid as I have no interest in the PvP aspect of the game and the safe space ones are low tier and go so fast.

 

Would be a loss of a lot of my talent points if I were stuck with something I wouldn't use anymore

If they do respec, I hope they have a better way than last time. Just wiping all talents was a pain - trying to recreate the exact tree you had before so your ships fly the same, the same max core limit, etc. Mess it up and you're stuck. Ideally they could just roll back the one branch.

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4 minutes ago, Megabosslord said:

If they do respec, I hope they have a better way than last time. Just wiping all talents was a pain - trying to recreate the exact tree you had before so your ships fly the same, the same max core limit, etc. Mess it up and you're stuck. Ideally they could just roll back the one branch.

and here's a point that bothers me the most: we're in a beta - so why aren't we given the opportunity to reset these talents at any time to experiment with them and test everything out? 
It makes me really angry that we are supposed to work with NQ and many want to, but we don't have any real opportunities to do good testing. Sometimes I don't feel like I'm in a beta test here, but in a finished game where the player has no say anymore, because nothing should be tested out.
So please @NQ, be a bit more relaxed and generous in this beta test so that players can really test. 

 

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2 hours ago, Zarcata said:

We certainly agree that DualUniverse will need another 3-5 years before it becomes a good and stable game that can be released. Accordingly, we should use this time to create opportunities to steer the game in a good direction so that it will be successful.


At that point we'd be talking about a product that has spent over a decade in the alpha/beta stage...

 

If NQ is changing the game's design because they can't afford to pay their rented servers, there's little chance that they can afford another 3-5 years paying 50-100 people across two offices (on top of server costs).

 

2 hours ago, Zarcata said:

...Sometimes I don't feel like I'm in a beta test here, but in a finished game where the player has no say anymore, because nothing should be tested out.
So please @NQ, be a bit more relaxed and generous in this beta test so that players can really test. 

 

 

This isn't a great beta program.

 

It's been pointed out many times that NQ doesn't really read this forum or listen to player suggestions -- this is something etched into the history of this forum many times over. Their philosophy of customer engagement is very poor; they only look at pics of constructs posted on Reddit (if anything). 

 

They resent beta players for finding exploits and "slowing them down", but that's literally the point of beta. If you expect the population of a release MMO to play "honorably" that's another point that shows their hubris and inexperience. 

 

Yeah DU's biggest issues are in the dev of the game itself...but the company culture and the whole philosophy of how this beta program is run (or not run) are also big red flags. They don't respect their players and it shows with how they communicate (or don't) and run their "beta" program. 

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3 hours ago, Zarcata said:

and here's a point that bothers me the most: we're in a beta - so why aren't we given the opportunity to reset these talents at any time to experiment with them and test everything out? 
It makes me really angry that we are supposed to work with NQ and many want to, but we don't have any real opportunities to do good testing. Sometimes I don't feel like I'm in a beta test here, but in a finished game where the player has no say anymore, because nothing should be tested out.
So please @NQ, be a bit more relaxed and generous in this beta test so that players can really test. 

 

TBF I didn’t do any terraforming, always expecting a terrain reset. But then JC said they wouldn’t wipe terrain and undo players’ hard work. So I thought, okay, I’m safe. Now we know nothing is safe. 

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14 hours ago, Megabosslord said:

Not sure if anyone has asked this, but can you pay territory tax in advance? Say, I'm going away on holidays and want to pay tax up front so things keep running. Will that be possible? 

I believe Entropy said and I am paraphrasing here but; "If you don't have money in your account to pay the taxes then bad things will happen". This to me suggests they will (like the government) just take it from your account to pay the taxes unless there is no quanta there.

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1 hour ago, ReconDo17 said:

I believe Entropy said and I am paraphrasing here but; "If you don't have money in your account to pay the taxes then bad things will happen". This to me suggests they will (like the government) just take it from your account to pay the taxes unless there is no quanta there.


In the video you can see that each of your territories has a wallet that the fees will be withdrawn from. If there's no quanta in the account, then it goes through the different stages of non-payment.

So, to answer the other person's question, it does look like you'll be able to prepay some amount of your territory's fees.

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It seems from reading the many great posts here that the community is divided on many issues that have both been presented in this looming update and some issues that have persisted from the start of this project. While I can appreciate NQ trying to save money whilst improving game play/smoothness they (NQ) also need to pay attention to what the community that makes up the game is saying about how the current state of the game is and what will happen going forward. The points I see from reading these comments:

 

1. Talent points - complete refund or partial refund = They said its all or nothing on this issue so take a snap shot of your setup so you can easily get back to where your particular set up is too easy.

2. Full wipe now or later at release - The community is really split on this issues I feel from the comments, my perspective as an 8 month or so player don't wipe there are literal works of art that took many hours of game play to build or code that was written. Now the code is saved and they have mentioned that you would get a "magic BP". Don't wipe don't destroy what players spent years building for the actions of a few. 

3. In ground Mining - I have been playing games and MMOs my whole life on and off I am 47, I will like most play what interests me even if there is a grind to it at first or through out hard work or effort with greater or equal payoff. There is no other way to say it we live in an instant gratification society and this too is split with some wanting this and some rolling up their sleeves. I feel players are missing the forest for the trees on this issue, with some very upset that in ground mining is being taken away while others are happy to see auto mining so they can either focus on building/creating or industry etc. I welcome the auto mining for those reasons will there be pain in the markets at first yes. I think over time this will become better. 

4. NQ not listening to the players - I think they (NQ) do listen to an extent but at the end of the day will make choices that benefit the company over what will benefit the majority/minority within the game. Should they listen absolutely they should take all relevant information before making decision in to account. Doing this will have a positive impact on not only the community but the game as a whole. 

 

Speaking from experience knee jerk reactions, puffed up chests, and keyboard warriors do nothing but add fuel to an already blazing fire and cause more harm than good. NQ should listen to the community take it all in and have those comments/suggestions have an impact on what is decided as a path forward. 

 

At the end of the day are you going to make everyone happy no matter which direction you choose to go NO never someone will always have a different opinion about how things should be done.  That being said there are some really wicked smart people in this space and have created literal works of art or a genius piece of code within the game.

 

I remember the last Q&A that NQ did on Oct 4th, Pann said at around the 11:15 mark she said go to the forums, I know people don't like them but that's where your voice will be heard, sorry NQ to use your words against you but if you want players in the game and not the same 5 people (being facetious) then listen to your words and listen to this community and weigh all the options.

 

Do more Q&A videos on these issues and this looming update, allow more time to find those game breaking bugs in the PTS, test test test and then test again before just pushing content to the live server.

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Thank the beta Gods! I've been waiting for this change since I started playin pre alpha... I'll finally actually recommend this game to friends! No more wasted life role-playing as a mining slave! I've been recommending these exact changes from the beginning, and am so excited to see how this shapes the future of the game... We've needed automated mining the whole time, so we don't have to be so darn attached to our creations, that we can actually start having some fun with them! I've wanted to get into PVP for literally years now, and finally will feel like I can take some chances that won't end up with my toiling back in the damn mines..

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7 hours ago, Zarcata said:

and here's a point that bothers me the most: we're in a beta - so why aren't we given the opportunity to reset these talents at any time to experiment with them and test everything out? 
It makes me really angry that we are supposed to work with NQ and many want to, but we don't have any real opportunities to do good testing. Sometimes I don't feel like I'm in a beta test here, but in a finished game where the player has no say anymore, because nothing should be tested out.
So please @NQ, be a bit more relaxed and generous in this beta test so that players can really test. 

 

 

PTS server.

/respec 

 

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

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These changes are VERY ALPHA. I cannot think of a game that altered the basic premise of the game so greatly in beta.

 

As to previous scans being valid, I thought the video clearly stated they would not be.

Must admit I do feel like a fool having wasted so much time on mining skills that are now pretty much worthless.

 

I do worry that this game is just going to turn into a PvP game, where Industry is a complete side note. 

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25 minutes ago, FryingDoom said:

These changes are VERY ALPHA. I cannot think of a game that altered the basic premise of the game so greatly in beta.

 

IMO, the game is a lot closer to release than people might think. Months, not years. 

 

Demeter will (supposedly) allow them to scale, the next updates will focus on first time user experience, then it will be maybe a few iterations on polish, PvP, and bug fixes before they slap a "release" label on it. 

 

Be realistic: a company with 50+ employees and two offices, negative revenue, very little customer growth, and an investor as CEO....is not going to wait until the game is "finished" to release. 

 

Huge changes like this are definitely 'VERY ALPHA'...but tbh I feel it is driven by a financial need to release above everything...Demeter will fundamentally change the math on affordability and revenue per customer, which matters when you're about to scale up (or try to do so, anyway). 

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Just now, ShippyLongstalking said:

Huge changes like this are definitely 'VERY ALPHA'...but tbh I feel it is driven by a financial need to release above everything...Demeter will fundamentally change the math on affordability and revenue per customer, which matters when you're about to scale up (or try to do so, anyway). 

Yes the drive is very much for financial reasons, which would make it a better idea to set it back to an Alpha and put it on steam as an early release to get a cash influx. Releasing it early shortly after Alpha level changes will just spell the end of this game.

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8 hours ago, FryingDoom said:

As to previous scans being valid, I thought the video clearly stated they would not be.

Must admit I do feel like a fool having wasted so much time on mining skills that are now pretty much worthless.

 

From this very same thread you're replying to:

 

image.thumb.png.183d71ecd8cd2bae2da7ea372a2cdfe1.png

 

Mining skills are valid on asteroids.

 

And industry is very much still part of the game.

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22 hours ago, kulkija said:

Problem:
Players digging way too much tunnels

Solution:

Do nothing to limit tunnels digging.

Instead ban Mining

 

What I'm missing....

What you are missing is that this is the way DU is being developed, got an issue, fix it? Noo limit something else, ban something, kill a feature. Every. Single. Time. Again.

So now we get automining and thats good, what do we loose? Building underground or partly, our owned territories, terraforming grand style, Quanta and independance as apparently NQ ownes all the land and we pay taxes to them, Mining, Mining.

 

So this was called a mix between Minecraft and Eve, I never saw it that way. Then industry got nuked, PvP is mildly said not what is expected and now mining is killed.

What is left?

 

Fly around in pewpew with no skills and drop Bots with no skills to not craft but sell ore to market bot with no skills, so you can buy overrated shizzles with no skill and then try to Magicvoxel your stuff, or just buy a NQ designed ship which all are reduced in length as larger stuff eats to much data.

 

All is being done to reduce dataflow and by that cashflow, in short there is a cashflow problem that hinders gamedevelopment that induces killing of features.

 

I propose a rename, CU Cheapass Universe.

 

CU Later

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1 hour ago, Tional said:

 

From this very same thread you're replying to:

 

image.thumb.png.183d71ecd8cd2bae2da7ea372a2cdfe1.png

 

Mining skills are valid on asteroids.

 

And industry is very much still part of the game.

Kind of like banning the ownership of combustion engines in a country and telling mechanics that combustion engines exist in different countries. 

 

As to Industry being very much a part of the game, 2 months ago you could say the same thing about hand mining on planets.

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20 minutes ago, FryingDoom said:

Kind of like banning the ownership of combustion engines in a country and telling mechanics that combustion engines exist in different countries. 

 

As to Industry being very much a part of the game, 2 months ago you could say the same thing about hand mining on planets.

 

What?

 

2 months ago? I was mining 30 minutes ago.

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1 hour ago, Aaron Cain said:

What you are missing is that this is the way DU is being developed, got an issue, fix it? Noo limit something else, ban something, kill a feature. Every. Single. Time. Again.

So now we get automining and thats good, what do we loose? Building underground or partly, our owned territories, terraforming grand style, Quanta and independance as apparently NQ ownes all the land and we pay taxes to them, Mining, Mining.

You can still perfectly build underground, nothings changed about that. You still own your Territories, you just gotta pay a little rent. You can still Terraform on large scales. You lose Independence? Not really.

Read the change log and watch the Q&A before you type something that has already been answered/disproven.

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