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INSIDE NOVAQUARK: DEMETER EDITION - Discussion Thread


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5 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

Are we? 

 

Yes, this was not about what NQ said, it was about what those of us wo would not mind an actual wipe would understand that to be. I believe it woudl be in NQ's benefit if they get around to doing such a wipe closer to "release".

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What about the right (RDMS) for mining units?

 

The right for mining units in RDMS now is under the Territory category. So I suppose that is to give right to deploy a mining unit on the territory? But in the vlog NQ says that it is an element that you deploy in a static construct.

 

I see two possible scenarios how to give mining rights on my territory.

  1. Give a player the right to deploy a static core on my territory. Then they can do whatever they want in that construct. Be it placing just a mining unit and a container or building a factory and so on.
  2. Place a static core and what else is necessary for mining and give a player right to use (manage) my property and take the outcome.

In the first case I see the huge problem that I (even as a super legate) don't have any control over that construct on my territory. I can only hope that the player that I've given the rights to don't do anything stupid or just leave the game and I sit there with a construct no one can use. Because I can only give the right to deploy so once it's there I can't take the right back.

 

On a side note, this is exactly the problem right now with parcel containers. I can't let someone have a parcel container on my construct so they can create missions to/from that place. In my case we have a store and would like to give that possibility to customers so they can shop in VR, put in their parcel container and have someone ship it to them via the mission system.

 

And for the mini-game. 

 

Is the mini-game run for each and every mining unit on my territory or is it per tile?

If I have 3 mining units that I use and manage with my charges, does that affect mining units that I have given someone else the right to use?

 

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4 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

 

Yes, this was not about what NQ said, it was about what those of us wo would not mind an actual wipe would understand that to be. I believe it would be in NQ's benefit if they get around to doing such a wipe closer to "release".

 

Depends really.  Between now and the wipe a lot of people either won't be playing at all or won't be playing as much/in the same way.  If enough people go off to other games for long enough, who can say how many of them will come back at launch to re-play a game which just wiped all their things and made them start again?  IMO once the wipe possibility has been introduced the intended date, what will be wiped and what (if anything) the compensation will be needs to follow fairly soon after.

Also I see what you mean about 'this is what players won't mind'.  People I've talked to have said the same thing and I wouldn't mind a 'keep-the-talents' wipe so much either.  But lets face it that's because we know that so long as we keep our talent points we can get back to where we were reasonably quickly.  The talent points put people miles ahead of new starters, particularly if you have multiple characters with 10s of millions.  I'm not sure that 'existing players being able to get back where they were' is really the intention of the wipe?

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21 hours ago, Helediron said:

I'd prefer deleting all old scans. We have already earned the benefits once, and i'll be digging away my meganodes before update.

Just make sure you can play on day 1,  NQ are stubborn on their decisions. Since every tile in-game has been scanned and some players have 100,000+ scans available all the best tiles will be gone by day 2-3.

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So I understand this correctly, if you are a player with an underground base and come back into the game after months, NQ will clear your base of terrain (using a ticket). But since the player has not played for months his tile is no longer existent due to missing tax payment, and does this also apply to the sanctuary moon too. Has the new tax, also effect on dynamic constructs.

 

Will space stations also be taxed in the future, or asked differently can you take a longer break in the game if you have an active sub, is there a place where I am freed from annoying tax payments to just see how the game develops. Otherwise that would be a point where I would stop playing DU.

 

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20 hours ago, Mhaijik said:

@NQ Is there any chance down the road we might get a 'Restore' tool to let us put back the land we terraformed to how it used to be?

You obviously did not watch the video, they said that there is a new planet wide voxel system coming in this patch and that ALL land will be filled in. The only way to re-terraform the land and SirG/Deckard said it was to do the custom terraforming again by hand as the new tool they have will only cut a square in the shape of the bounding box for the construct.

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7 hours ago, Vargen said:

What about the right (RDMS) for mining units?

 

The right for mining units in RDMS now is under the Territory category. So I suppose that is to give right to deploy a mining unit on the territory? But in the vlog NQ says that it is an element that you deploy in a static construct.

 

I see two possible scenarios how to give mining rights on my territory.

  1. Give a player the right to deploy a static core on my territory. Then they can do whatever they want in that construct. Be it placing just a mining unit and a container or building a factory and so on.
  2. Place a static core and what else is necessary for mining and give a player right to use (manage) my property and take the outcome.

In the first case I see the huge problem that I (even as a super legate) don't have any control over that construct on my territory. I can only hope that the player that I've given the rights to don't do anything stupid or just leave the game and I sit there with a construct no one can use. Because I can only give the right to deploy so once it's there I can't take the right back.

 

On a side note, this is exactly the problem right now with parcel containers. I can't let someone have a parcel container on my construct so they can create missions to/from that place. In my case we have a store and would like to give that possibility to customers so they can shop in VR, put in their parcel container and have someone ship it to them via the mission system.

 

And for the mini-game. 

 

Is the mini-game run for each and every mining unit on my territory or is it per tile?

If I have 3 mining units that I use and manage with my charges, does that affect mining units that I have given someone else the right to use?

 

The one thing not mentioned here though a good question is you as the tile owner pay the taxes, now if you give someone rights to mine there to help off set those costs imposed by NQ and they leave not only are you stuck with an abandoned construct on your tile you are still responsible to pay those taxes.

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5 hours ago, Physics said:

Just make sure you can play on day 1,  NQ are stubborn on their decisions. Since every tile in-game has been scanned and some players have 100,000+ scans available all the best tiles will be gone by day 2-3.

None of that is true except that NQ is stubborn

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On 10/22/2021 at 6:07 AM, Helediron said:

I'd prefer deleting all old scans. We have already earned the benefits once, and i'll be digging away my meganodes before update.

No I validated that time I spent scanning not only by the super nodes I found, but also by the knowledge  that once the super nodes where gone I would also know where tiles of decent deposits of ore where.  Its also forceing me to act now to mine out nodes I had no intention of mining out anytime soon. For instance I have a 3m natron node and a 2m copper node that I planned on only occasionally mining out as I needed more fuel. 

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I'm honestly shooting NPCs for Dogfighting combat that I want back on http://jumpgate-tri.org/, maybe NQ can play some themselves. Game was great until the studio folded >_< This stuff they have, ugh, annoying as heck. I'd love to see NQ introduct some ECM for miners to go "Na-na!" to pirates etc. Annoy enough groups like that and they'll want your booty... ahem... cargo.

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Also some things people are not asking and I didn't hear them mention are: 1. Are the current ore pools on the planets going to stay the way they are or will there be a chance for different or more rare ore to spawn in the new system. 2. In this revamp of the planets will all the ore pools be different or will all ore from T1 to T5 have the ability to spawn on any given planet. The latter would make more sense and also give new players the opportunity to have at least some of the more rare ore types. 

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11 minutes ago, Physics said:

May take a tad longer to snipe the tiles but I can assure you there are players out there with that amount of scans. 

Oh for sure I have only been playing for 8 months and I have 1000s of scans as that is what we did for months on end lol

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On 10/22/2021 at 4:56 PM, sysadrift said:

 

There's like five people who got rich from exploits.  A wipe would make a very vocal minority (of the already limited number of people who still play) happy, and the rest would leave.  It's basically a big middle finger to everyone who has put in the time and effort since the beginning of beta to build wealth.  Doing a quanta-only wipe would be even worse.  I've made money by selling ships.  If you wipe the quanta but let them keep the ships, they they basically got them for free, and I (and every other ship seller) gets screwed. 

 

You actually believe 5 people got Rich from expliots?  Far more than that.  I get your point tho.  I dont want a wipe I just want them to do it if they are intended to it sooner than later.  I'm 100% against a wipe but the mere fact they mentioned it has halted some peoples play as they dont want to risk building new stuff in case it is wiped!

 

Vicious circle.

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It does not require a wipe. 
Those who have cheated so far should have been punished and the values they received should have been taken away. In the meantime, it hardly matters whether a player has stolen 50 million quanta or 5 million quanta. The bigger problem is multiaccounts and the use of missions, which create billions of quanta within a short time.

All the weeks and months when you could "cheat" back then are balanced out by time after all. You had plenty of time to earn billions of quanta. In the end, it's like in almost every game:
- Time invested = advantage
- Number of accounts = advantage
- Interaction with a group = advantage 

These advantages always outweigh a one-time cheat. (This is not meant to be a justification) The cheaters should have been punished immediately at that time and their unjustly received things should have been taken away from them).

But what exactly would a wipe do today, except punish all players?

 

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What drew to me DU originally was the mining, scanning, locating ore and the chance of coming across larger nodes of ore. What sold it for me was the manual side of it, you physically had to roll up your sleeves go find the resources, and the more time and effort you put in the greater the opportunity of reward as you could come across larger volumes and other tiers. This tied together with upgrading your ship, linked containers, storage, travelling around different planets and facing different challenges, plus do all that with your friends made it enjoyable!

95% of my time in DU is mining. I have no interest in PVP or Industry. I fund my assets through mining, by providing manufacturers and builders with resources and buy their inventions to do more mining, greater yields and better productivity!

Whilst I appreciate the issue of underground mining on planets is impacting financially and performance of the game, it just feels like rather than fixing the issue at source, the issue is simply being deleted. Rather than fixing the problems underground mining cause and adding to the game with mining units, your deleting and replacing with automation. Am sorry, but if we are talking about the game being sustainable for the long term, fix the architeture of the game as opposed to dancing around the problem.

The mining units sound interesting, but they are automated with some manual input which has been confirmed to be limited. The update also referred to ‘limiting our time engaging with mining units.’ I mean if I spend all my time mining, I now have no reward for time invested and have been limited in that regard as I no longer play the game on my terms, am being ‘pushed’ away from what I enjoying doing.

In addition, as mining units are automated and basically end up AFK mining, it opens up the gates for those with many alts and quanta accumulated to date to set up an AFK income of ore which totally takes away from the game again, as this is venturing in pay to win territory.

Ahh wait! I can still get plenty of ore from asteroids right? Well, on the basis it takes me 75-90 minutes! to get to an asteroid (and everyone else is rushing to it also), 30 minutes to get back and to come away with less ore's worth than it cost me in fuel……. No.

The safe space asteroids get rinsed, and even if you go to discovered asteroids, it’s an hour of travel for a round trip where there’s nothing but shrapnel left. Try putting 200 asteroids in safe space and on daily respawn then there might be enough to go round.

In any case, it seems this update will make fundamental changes, create its own issues on top of existing issues, ground players to planets more than likely and take away rewards for time invested.

 

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1 hour ago, Kurama said:

Whilst I appreciate the issue of underground mining on planets is impacting financially and performance of the game, it just feels like rather than fixing the issue at source, the issue is simply being deleted. Rather than fixing the problems underground mining cause and adding to the game with mining units, your deleting and replacing with automation. Am sorry, but if we are talking about the game being sustainable for the long term, fix the architeture of the game as opposed to dancing around the problem.

 

I am against the pain of grinding. And i am in favor of most mining being done AFK. 

 

But this does not mean i like the idea of removing one entire feature from the game. 

I think ppl willing to mine should be able to mind, just like Empyrion. You can set autominers but you can also dig a hole and go mine. 

Empyrion also provides the solution for the growing world voxel problem. 

From time to time the tunnels dug by players close up. 

 

But while writing this reply, something occurred to me. 

What if NQ's problem isn't just the database size but also the database traffic? 

What if they found out they can reduce the database speed(and cost) if players dont keep sending voxel change updates? 

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1 hour ago, joaocordeiro said:

 

What if NQ's problem isn't just the database size but also the database traffic? 

What if they found out they can reduce the database speed(and cost) if players dont keep sending voxel change updates? 


This is one of the costs they hope to reduce.

 

In my memory It's said in the video by NQ-Sirg, Technical Director

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1 hour ago, Knight-Sevy said:


This is one of the costs they hope to reduce.

 

In my memory It's said in the video by NQ-Sirg, Technical Director

Jupp.. And it is not exactly a new problem.

Right from the very start in 2016 we asked them multiple times.

 

- How will you solve the scaling issues with finite resources in an persistent world?

- What about server and bandwidth requirements as we get more and more players digging?

- How will you address the "swiss cheese" problem around popular areas?

 

And all we got where either silence or the NQ trademark quote "don't worry guys, we are looking into this", which we have learned means they have no clue how to solve it.

So I guess we have now come full circle, and NQ is finally now in late 2021 addressing the major problems with the game that we pointed out for them in the beginning.

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A little off topic. But, by far, the best "we dont have a clue" moment from NQ was a youtube AMA when JC was dreaming about the possibility of stealth bases underground and how hard it would be to find them and in the next question some one asks how hard is it to find them when you can only make a base in your owned territory and those can be seen in the planet map. 

That was the time when JCs face went from "dreaming" to "no F clue" in less then 10 secs. 

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13 hours ago, Zarcata said:

It does not require a wipe. 
Those who have cheated so far should have been punished and the values they received should have been taken away. In the meantime, it hardly matters whether a player has stolen 50 million quanta or 5 million quanta. The bigger problem is multiaccounts and the use of missions, which create billions of quanta within a short time.

All the weeks and months when you could "cheat" back then are balanced out by time after all. You had plenty of time to earn billions of quanta. In the end, it's like in almost every game:
- Time invested = advantage
- Number of accounts = advantage
- Interaction with a group = advantage 

These advantages always outweigh a one-time cheat. (This is not meant to be a justification) The cheaters should have been punished immediately at that time and their unjustly received things should have been taken away from them).

But what exactly would a wipe do today, except punish all players?

 

Full Wipe today? That would be foolish and counter productive. Learn by the bad choices made in beta and make the game and in-game economy sustainable then decide what level of pre-release wipe is required for best possible launch? Definitely. 

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Taxes for tiles is really bad idea.

To pay taxes is newer fun in real life.

It do not became fun if it is added to video game.

 

To play video game should be entertainment and create good feelings. Paying taxes does not.

 

This proposal of taxes also moves away from player driven economy.

If I have a tile, it should be me who is collecting taxes, not some super power winch owns all planets and property on them (aphelia)

 

This can be the last hit, and even worse than r0.23 was.

I'm seriously concerning about leaving this game for good.

 

*******

Edit:

To say this Territory ownership fee is a tax is wrong by definition.

Taxes are paid when there is income.

This proposal is rent.

It forces me to collect quanta for no reason... no .. no not for me..

 

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15 hours ago, Kurama said:

What drew to me DU originally was the mining, scanning, locating ore and the chance of coming across larger nodes of ore. What sold it for me was the manual side of it, you physically had to roll up your sleeves go find the resources, and the more time and effort you put in the greater the opportunity of reward as you could come across larger volumes and other tiers. This tied together with upgrading your ship, linked containers, storage, travelling around different planets and facing different challenges, plus do all that with your friends made it enjoyable!

95% of my time in DU is mining. I have no interest in PVP or Industry. I fund my assets through mining, by providing manufacturers and builders with resources and buy their inventions to do more mining, greater yields and better productivity!

Whilst I appreciate the issue of underground mining on planets is impacting financially and performance of the game, it just feels like rather than fixing the issue at source, the issue is simply being deleted. Rather than fixing the problems underground mining cause and adding to the game with mining units, your deleting and replacing with automation. Am sorry, but if we are talking about the game being sustainable for the long term, fix the architeture of the game as opposed to dancing around the problem.

The mining units sound interesting, but they are automated with some manual input which has been confirmed to be limited. The update also referred to ‘limiting our time engaging with mining units.’ I mean if I spend all my time mining, I now have no reward for time invested and have been limited in that regard as I no longer play the game on my terms, am being ‘pushed’ away from what I enjoying doing.

In addition, as mining units are automated and basically end up AFK mining, it opens up the gates for those with many alts and quanta accumulated to date to set up an AFK income of ore which totally takes away from the game again, as this is venturing in pay to win territory.

Ahh wait! I can still get plenty of ore from asteroids right? Well, on the basis it takes me 75-90 minutes! to get to an asteroid (and everyone else is rushing to it also), 30 minutes to get back and to come away with less ore's worth than it cost me in fuel……. No.

The safe space asteroids get rinsed, and even if you go to discovered asteroids, it’s an hour of travel for a round trip where there’s nothing but shrapnel left. Try putting 200 asteroids in safe space and on daily respawn then there might be enough to go round.

In any case, it seems this update will make fundamental changes, create its own issues on top of existing issues, ground players to planets more than likely and take away rewards for time invested.

 

I have two agree with you hear I’m not happy about the removal of underground ore it’s one ove the things that made this game special I think NQ is just taking the easy way out they should have just aded terrine regeneration 

I like the idea of mining unit but not like this it also has a max so dose that mean we can only mine the same amount as others it’s looking like land mark all over again dumbing down the game what’s next building limits 

I’m also not in favorer ove land tax’s  as I like building but it’s going two get expensive and a monthly is two short  why not just add a login in every 2 months or so just two keep land available proving you are active and what about the millions I already payed for my claims do I get money back i am a builder in this game it’s what I enjoy I don’t like pvp it’s the building and mining that brought me two this game  if I wanted pvp I will play star citizen ore eve  

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