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Where Are The Cities? - ( Static Blueprint Placement is Broken )


Megabosslord

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Since day 1, NQ has talked about cities as a feature of DU:

- during the Kickstarter in JC's '10 Minutes of Dual Universe Gameplay',

- in the 2018 pre-alpha 'Dual Universe Community-Made Outposts', and

- just a year ago, at the 25 second mark in the 'Building Fundamentals Trailer'...

 

So why are there only a handful of 'cities' in DU? 

 

 

 

As detailed in my YouTube video (link below) it is virtually impossible to align static core blueprints reliably, even when working hard to comply with the baked-in ray cast used to position blueprints. The lack of a snap to grid (as with placement of new cores) is just the beginning of the many problems.

 

Static blueprint placement issues also include: 

 

1) 'Nudge' moves the BP by 2 voxels instead if 1,

2) There is no visualisation of the structure being placed. Combined with placement inverting the direction of the structure by default, it is extremely difficult to predict which direction the blueprint is facing when placed, even moreso when rotation is called for, and

3) The inability to 'undo' a bad placement is especially burdensome on large structures as they have to be torn down in dozens of separate cut selections and the blueprint is effectively lost.

 

For all these reasons, it is completely impractical to try to perform a number of tasks essential to large scale architecture, including:

- Relocating an existing multicore structure,

- Replicating a multicore structure,

- Developing multicore structures for sale,

- Selling any static blueprint with DRM (since bad placement consumes the blueprint). 

 

Because it is impossible to transact blueprints in a way that allows customers to reliably place their purchase, there is no profit to be made in multicore architecture. And because there is no profit in multicore architecture, there are no multicore architects.

 

In essence, current gameplay mechanics actively inhibit the construction of cities. 

 

There are three levels of fix for this essential gameplay element: 

 

BASIC:

Add snap-to-grid for static core blueprint placement, identical to new core placement. (Even with this basic fix, determined players can workaround the remaining problems.)

 

INTERMEDIATE:

Add a direction arrow on the blueprint being placed so players can see which direction the BP is being placed. (Blueprint sellers can then provide instructions to customers on which face of the construct the arrow represents.)

 

ADVANCED:

Full function - add a silhouette of the projected blueprint, and add an undo function or teardown with the blueprint recovered.

 

To be fair, there are other problems as well - like the inability to use elevators to travel between cores, or more than half the width of a large core. But with the ability to design and build multicore structures, the largest hurdle would be resolved and the absence of any significant emergent architecture, aside from a small number of very determined players. 

 

It is my wish that rather than wait for the available development cycle to properly fix static blueprint placement, the 'basic' option above be implemented ASAP.

 

*

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The deployment of BP is a problem I agree with you.

 

But to the question why there is no city?

 

The answer is quite simple. There is simply no point in having one in the game.

 

There is no mechanic that will make players live close to each other.

 

The only needs are storage / Factory.

 

Markets are NQ installations whereas it could have been up to the player to manage them for example.

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9 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:

The deployment of BP is a problem I agree with you.

 

But to the question why there is no city?

 

The answer is quite simple. There is simply no point in having one in the game.

 

There is no mechanic that will make players live close to each other.

 

The only needs are storage / Factory.

 

Markets are NQ installations whereas it could have been up to the player to manage them for example.

this tbh

 

cities don't serve any purpose whatsoever with current mechanics. except for RP purposes maybe, but noone needs special "rooms" for anything in the game right now. you don't need gathering halls, tactical command centers or anything alike. nothing a city provides serves any purpose. Same goes for spacestations. All players really need is storage and landing pads. Everything else is completely useless

 

 

EDIT:

oh and besides the technical limitation of the single shard server - I very much doubt that cities will ever work where more than 2000 ppl concurrently do stuff within 1km of each other. lagfest ftw. see market 6

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22 minutes ago, Lethys said:

this tbh

 

cities don't serve any purpose whatsoever with current mechanics. except for RP purposes maybe, but noone needs special "rooms" for anything in the game right now. you don't need gathering halls, tactical command centers or anything alike. nothing a city provides serves any purpose. Same goes for spacestations. All players really need is storage and landing pads. Everything else is completely useless

 

 

EDIT:

oh and besides the technical limitation of the single shard server - I very much doubt that cities will ever work where more than 2000 ppl concurrently do stuff within 1km of each other. lagfest ftw. see market 6

You nailed it.  While NQ is hammering Pvp into shape they totally forgot one of the first groups to embrace DU, roleplayers and casual PvE players, combine that with absolutely no reason to actually center players since the markets are all NQ dominated and small shops is not a thing. Add 0.23 to it what limits the local placements of small businesses and the long overdue addition of actual elements that make living in DU itself a feast including possible farming, extra plants, stuff to actually do In a housing besides be bored. Cities are doomed to never happen in large scale. Add lag to that and its end of line.

 

But this actually is also a threath to the sustainability of DU, all large popular mmo have social centers where loads of players gather for festivals or social contacts places to visit while your logged in and just want to wander around. without any reason to be somewhere or any reason to build it DU will more and more become an individualistic game where you meet the same 2/3 people every day. Making it possible and giving incent to building a fun thriving city with shops, industry, restaurants, bars, adventure centers, repair bays, and everything else should be a priority but as we see the current road all paths lead to PvP and individualisation. Pri-0.23 we saw the birth of some cities and some locations where loads of people worked together to build large factory and storage units so individuals could startup their own stuff as reward for helping the orgs but most of those locations lay dead since 0.23. Adding schematics might have been what NQ saw was needed to do....something... but as it killed the smaller industizations and some of the larger the aftermath (scemes etc) did more on the bases of trust and  stopped some nice developments in city building halfway.

 

At the moment DU is being developed Top down,  "yeah give us endgame!!!!!!!"  but nothing efficient is added to support that and the apparent "endgame" is PvP only it seems and thus all other professions are treated in development of DU like shit. Thus end the need of cities as city development needs loads of diferent occupation and large masses of elements, materials, and lore elements to actually build a pleasing to the eye city that actually has a role in DU.

 

There was a point in development where cities were on the brink of reaching out, apparently that was unwanted and remediation took care of it.

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1 hour ago, Aaron Cain said:

You nailed it.  While NQ is hammering Pvp into shape they totally forgot one of the first groups to embrace DU, roleplayers and casual PvE players, combine that with absolutely no reason to actually center players since the markets are all NQ dominated and small shops is not a thing. Add 0.23 to it what limits the local placements of small businesses and the long overdue addition of actual elements that make living in DU itself a feast including possible farming, extra plants, stuff to actually do In a housing besides be bored. Cities are doomed to never happen in large scale. Add lag to that and its end of line.

 

But this actually is also a threath to the sustainability of DU, all large popular mmo have social centers where loads of players gather for festivals or social contacts places to visit while your logged in and just want to wander around. without any reason to be somewhere or any reason to build it DU will more and more become an individualistic game where you meet the same 2/3 people every day. Making it possible and giving incent to building a fun thriving city with shops, industry, restaurants, bars, adventure centers, repair bays, and everything else should be a priority but as we see the current road all paths lead to PvP and individualisation. Pri-0.23 we saw the birth of some cities and some locations where loads of people worked together to build large factory and storage units so individuals could startup their own stuff as reward for helping the orgs but most of those locations lay dead since 0.23. Adding schematics might have been what NQ saw was needed to do....something... but as it killed the smaller industizations and some of the larger the aftermath (scemes etc) did more on the bases of trust and  stopped some nice developments in city building halfway.

 

At the moment DU is being developed Top down,  "yeah give us endgame!!!!!!!"  but nothing efficient is added to support that and the apparent "endgame" is PvP only it seems and thus all other professions are treated in development of DU like shit. Thus end the need of cities as city development needs loads of diferent occupation and large masses of elements, materials, and lore elements to actually build a pleasing to the eye city that actually has a role in DU.

 

There was a point in development where cities were on the brink of reaching out, apparently that was unwanted and remediation took care of it.


I could not agree more.

Patch 0.23 were huge disappointment for me.

 

Pre 0.23 I had small industry running to manufacture things for myself and I were slowly expanding to be able to sell something.

Then NQ sent a message that I were playing industry "in a non intended way. "

I had played since day one of pre alpha and that "non intended small industry game play" were totally new for me.

It broke my confidence to NQ and created unfriendly feeling of game development intents and about developers.

 

Why no cities?

There is no reasons.

No benefits for city building.

There is no tools and game-features for city infrastructure.

No security about living in a tile owned by other player.

etc.

 

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3 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

The deployment of BP is a problem I agree with you.

 

But to the question why there is no city?

 

The answer is quite simple. There is simply no point in having one in the game.

 

There is no mechanic that will make players live close to each other.

 

The only needs are storage / Factory.

 

Markets are NQ installations whereas it could have been up to the player to manage them for example.

Certainly player owned markets would help, but I’m not so certain the mechanics aren’t there for the formation of communities - if only multicore structures weren’t made so difficult. 
 

The limited range on transmitters is one mechanic incentivising close coordination of multiple cores. Imagine multiple factories producing different components, owned and run by individual players, contributing to each other in close proximity and communicating on a commonly agreed transmission format. Shared libraries of territory scans. Shared fleets of ships for different purposes hangared with scripted access to hangars based on status, points or role - all of which could be governed by centrally transmitted player metadata. Shared access to space elevators, taxi services, market runs, DSAT, rostered tasks, intel, voxel libraries, banks, insurance companies… There are many reasons a co-located collective could run much more efficiently than one that is dispersed.

 

These structures and the embedded infrastructure for communication and coordination, could then be replicated via blueprints and scaled in multiple strategic locations. Nobody is thinking this way yet because the blueprint mechanics dissuade it. 

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I agree with the op. 

The engine does not support any means of organizing cities. 

Even creates somes barriers making harder for constructs to be places near each other. 

 

But i think another question should be asked. 

Why to have cities in the 1st place? 

Just to look great? Like a mock-up city that no one actually uses? 

 

Why would a player want to live in a city? 

 

Cons:

Lag

Exhaustion or nearby resources

No secrets

Constraints on further building

 

Why do ppl live in cities in RL? 

Jobs - in DU you can easly commute 10km, no need to live in the city. 

Protection - no one will build a city in a pvp zone. 

High supply - again transportation in DU is almost free. 

 

So why build a city? 

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JC sold his vision...and he sold it well enough to convince investors to sink $20+ million into a company with no gaming experience and no detailed plan. You have to realize by now that this vision was little more than smoke and mirrors. 

 

His concept was always nonsense. The idea that you could build with near-infinite scale, the idea of cities, the idea that PvP would look anything at all like trailers, the idea that DU had "revolutionary" tech that would allow millions of people to play in the same game...

 

It's too bad people still get suckered in by misleading ads claiming that this game is something it never will be. 

 

DU can became a lot of great things, but it will never become the game they push in the trailer -- which means most new players will always be disappointed.

 

I feel like NQ hired a third party to do their adverts / marketing and it works to bring people in, so they won't update them...it's a really counterproductive marketing strategy. 

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2 hours ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

JC sold his vision...and he sold it well enough to convince investors to sink $20+ million into a company with no gaming experience. 

 

Well while i agree with most content, I dont agree with it being obvious..

 

JC was surrounded by white knights that would defend his vision to the last key press. 

Several questioning sessions happened with ppl not asking those "obvious" faults. 

 

We dont know how much experience NQ devs actually have in gaming we know JC fired some gaming personnel. 

 

And the ground breaking technology is there. 

The way voxel world moves around you gaining detail in approach is a ground breaking tech. 

The way the servers feed data to us is a ground breaking tech. 

 

To me this game failed in the manager. 

Not questioning and adapting the vision of the visionar. 

 

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And look, I dont mean a generic "management failed"

Here are some specifics:

No user metrics whatsoever.
Stuff like "what types of actions makes players hit alt + f4"
Or "what type of actions players quit the game after", "what type of players bring friends to play", "what are the actions players most do when joining the server"

No alternative thinking allowed.
Who ever went against JC was aiming for the door.

 

No decent feedback tool, questioner, nothing.

No user behavior expert.

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4 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

And the ground breaking technology is there. 

The way voxel world moves around you gaining detail in approach is a ground breaking tech. 

The way the servers feed data to us is a ground breaking tech. 

 

LOD isn't ground-breaking tech, and they aren't voxels because the server translates voxels to simple meshes.

 

The way the servers feed data to clients is not working very well even today...I've yet to see this game actually accomplish its scaling goals except in pre-planned events which is not a real test of auto-scaling infrastructure. Yes lag has gotten better, but that's also because server pops have drastically declined. 

 

I might believe it was "ground breaking" tech if these basic concepts worked, they worked well, and they scaled. 

 

I get what you mean that NQ's actual devs aren't to blame completely or even at all, really....but that doesn't mean their tech is "ground breaking" when I would say it is closer to "barely working" (which is also a function of bad management, not necessarily a bad tech team) 

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3 hours ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

but that doesn't mean their tech is "ground breaking" when I would say it is closer to "barely working" (which is also a function of bad management, not necessarily a bad tech team) 


Well, that's the thing. Programmers know that 99% of the code working is a failed code. Because to the user, those 99 successful actions are ignored. But the 1 action that is not working is a bug getting all the attention.

I find some of the technology they implemented in ground breaking.
I have played Antronear do you even notice the planet while going from one planet to another?
In DU you can just set the ship to orbit the planet very low orbit and enjoy the planet passing by.
Its amazing that you can do that with so much detail and custom data.

Does it bug, yes. Could it be improved, yes. But its amazing.

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Minecraft is just a building engine for aesthetics! You make that a persistent single-shard MMO and you made it a social platform! Dual Universe is just an aesthetical building-based social platform, that's all it is! This social-platform has no progression content meaning the in-game activity is driven by aesthetics as that is the only existing essence! Other MMORPGs have robust economy because of their progression content while this game has unsustainable economy! Do you call art a sustainable industry in real-life?

 

15 hours ago, kulkija said:

Why no cities?

There is no reasons.

No benefits for city building.

Exactly! When the only essence you have in this game is aesthetics, you will build them anyway for that purpose, otherwise there is nothing to do at all!

 

You see how it doesn't work and people are jumping to Starbase hoping that game will work when it is missing the same essential components?

 

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Hey nice post ! 

I totally agree with your point of view on building stuff.

I was a builder who had claimed an 120 tile area on Alioth to build a city of my dreams...(before they announced the upcoming org changes)

1740519551_cityplot1.jpg.76087671983353c200c78087d0037f77.jpg

cost for claiming it all was aprox. 70 million. ?

I Abandoned that as soon as i heard the upcoming org changes (1 Account = 275 org cores) 

Before that it was 1375 cores per account. I suppose you dont consider a city with one,two or three tiles , i mean it has to be big.

One thing is that they trying to do is to reduce lag and bring the game to realistic loading times. Thats for the upcoming org changes . If they come . I mean it is still into consideration but the "wipe" has already been done... Second of all is the missing tools you mentioned making the building of a city a nightmare. Third and mosty basic of all is that the game is most likely turning into pvp and we just saw what are they focus in at the last patch . The reduced building is the increased pvp capacity the game has to offer. (+market clean up)

Also take into consideration the flat tool use. I had to flatten an area of about 120 tiles and the height was different about +100 and -100 which resulted flattening 5-10 meters height of 1/3 of a tile in a day which makes it impossible if you really want to terraform the terrain of a large city. Yeah i have to agree 1 person is impossible but it is still a lot of work to be done in flattening.

Also take in mind that they may deliberately delay that building fundamentals because XL cores may appear in the horizon . This would be a game changer indeed. This is still beta and the game is under development.

I prefer to have a gameplay in pvp and trading and farming and industry rather having spend a lot of time in building (which i like ) because we currently really dont know where they are heading to. And if you are planning to build big and also use a master plan (Blueprints -Alignement of constructs - Number of cores and most important ore and voxels and elements ) you have to know that beforehand otherwise it is building in blind ...+And you may loose your stuff if they change the org core count in a week or so ^^

I will leave a like for your post and hope they fix that also as this will make the game even bigger and therefore more good for me .But not in the sacrifice of the other game itself (pvp,trading,industry,mining) which is the real big question if the game can handle all that together . I hope it can fingers crossed ...

 

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16 hours ago, Habitant said:

I suppose you dont consider a city with one,two or three tiles , i mean it has to be big.

A city in real-life in average is around 600 km² big (60,000 hectares). Around 2 ~ 15 million people live in it. Around 5 to as much as 30+ million work in the city formally and informally (many live in the metropolitan area and commute to the city regularly). 

 

1 tile = 1 km² (100 hectares) ---> this is the average CBD in real-life. 

 

1 tile is already a f*cking CBD! You know how many people work in the CBD? Atleast 200k!

 

La Defense CBD in Paris and the Golden Triangle in Jakarta are the size of a tile each! 

 

Do you have 200K busy workers (with work) to justify the development of a km² CBD full of class A office buildings? That is only 1 tile which is already too big for it's use! You can't even justify a CBD, better yet a city! 

 

There is no need, it is a white elephant just like everything in this game! We are only roleplaying here! These excessively big tiles are individually-owned as well! Has it ever come to you that the concept of shares (incorporating) does not work in this game because there is no credible law which is not possible in a player-driven game? A privately-owned property is not a city no matter how big you make it to be! How can we (as a community) have something organic that will agglomerate if the basic unit of land is ridiculously big? 

 

You got a mining industry in this game, you got manufacturing industry, but there is almost no possible sustainable service industry in this game aside from transportation! The first 2 sectors are useless in a player-driven game without the service sector! You can't replicate the economy in real-life as you don't have similar survival mechanics! Do something that is feasible for the game which is to add in-game progression content to serve as the gameplay loop!  

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6 hours ago, Eternal said:

Do you have 200K busy workers (with work) to justify the development of a km² CBD full of class A office buildings?

Well it wasnt in my intention to put 200k people in there and be their lord ... The only intention was to deploy 1375 cores (prior to announcement of org changes ) in a matter that looks like a city to explore and have fun just by exploring ... nothing else -Also the accounts i have is 6 so that was 8250 LARGE STATIC CORES -before

Not also in my intention to have exactly the dimensions of a real city ... it is just a fantastic construction with really no use except the persistent "they" advertised ... i swear they did ^^

And with the voxelmancy and the tools the poster mentioned above just to amuse my self and have an extra game within the game which in fact will help the economy in long term...

And have it all by my self ...

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What's with the real-life comparison? DualUniverse is and remains a game, a virtual reality, nothing more. If I want real life, I expand my house there, extend the roof or buy my neighbour's land. But in a game I want to experience more, without restrictions like in real life.

There will be no cities in the game, it seems to be a technical problem to make big cities playable with many inhabitants. Now the server doesn't even allow you to hold smaller events without having to live with lags and DCs.

No matter what, the sizes hardly fit either, if you consider that some machines are gigantic in relation to the fact that you only produce screws/nuts, but then oversized for other frames.

From a purely industrial point of view, it is difficult to set up a real factory. In other words, a factory on a road with other supplier factories next to it. In addition, you don't need your own "home" in the game. All you need is an industrial site that varies in size according to how much you want to produce for yourself or others. What is missing, however, are meaningful buildings, tourism points, or proper living areas. Shops with supplies - food, drink, decoration, .... - are not needed because everything is in the industry module anyway. There is a lack of cultivation areas, fields for supplies, potatoes, rice, maize....and there is a lack of recreational opportunities, possibly swimming pools for a bonus for the character. There is a general lack of something to "play", an occupation that does not only consist of mining and PvP. The game itself is ingenious, if it were more than just a sandbox with too many rules and limits - but too few tools.

 

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Well, the problem is not that there are no benefits in building close together.

The current problem is: The game is still not ready for this.

We tried it in "Hyperion City", and the game causes so many issues if you want to build close together.

 

Advantages of a City:

- Feeling:

Its much nicer building close together and see others buildings grow bigger and bigger

- Industry:

Everyone can specialize on some parts and build a perfect optimized industry line. And your Neighbor can specialize on other parts

- Shopping:

In Hyperion, we have a fully automated ore deposit and shopping center that works very nice and is more comfortable and immersive than flying to the markets everytime

- We even experimented with street systems where hovercars can drive with ease (yeah, not absolutely necessary, but adds feeling too)

- Building together on large projects

 

Issues with a City in DU:

- Performance:

The industry city is a nice idea, but the game cannot handle it currently. Just a few cores filled with industry are causing massive FPS drops. Imagine what it is with dozens of buildings. Thats the main issue and thats the reason why the real use of a city is not achievable.

- Overlap-Protection:

DU has an overlap-Protection that does not allow to build too close to others buildings (not even the tileowner can disable this). But the range of this is way too far. So EVERY player with a house in the city has to manually disable this overlap-protection for every core. But this is extremely bugged and there has to be just one inactive player who has not disabled this protection, to make a whole 300x300m area unusable. Several players reached out to NQ because of this. The protection does not need to be removed, but at least give the tileowner the option to disable this protection for his tile. Issue would be solved. But nothing changed so far and this for already more than 1 year.

- Organization Core limits:

The only other way to avoid this overlap-protection is if all the building cores belong to the organization (and the player just gets all the rights for his own buildings). But NQ decided to reduce the max. amount of cores for every org massively (doesnt matter if its a org with 5 Members, or with 500). So this does not work too. Many players reached out to NQ with ideas like "scaling the core limit according to the player amount" / "add some missions to expand the org core limits" and others. But so far nothing changed, and this already for ~ 4 months.

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There is no Right Parts Specialisation that gives a fabricator any real advantage in fully skilling it. The current bonuses are not far-reaching enough and not deep enough to have to decide properly, especially since one can simply acquire all skills through countless other accounts in order to continue to be independent.
The skills system itself should be urgently revised. It needs a demarcation for the industry/economy talents. At the moment, you can produce a final product without help, because you have to skill a lot of a production line anyway in order to build the higher-quality products. For players who are new to the game, there is no more room to fill a gap, as the low skills have all been skilled through and all players have now reached T4 - T5 skills. Catching up is not possible in the system.
In 1-2 years, more and more players will have all the skills, if you look purely at the industry part. The monopolies are already there, Schematics have not changed anything about that, except that smaller players with less playing time have been sorted out. So what we see in the game, it's not a lot of small companies producing parts, it's mostly one big corporation that has the market power and has swallowed up or destroyed all the smaller ones.

So cities have no benefit at the moment, except that they drag down the performance of the game enormously.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/5/2021 at 11:00 PM, Habitant said:

Hey nice post ! 

I totally agree with your point of view on building stuff.

I was a builder who had claimed an 120 tile area on Alioth to build a city of my dreams...(before they announced the upcoming org changes)

1740519551_cityplot1.jpg.76087671983353c200c78087d0037f77.jpg

cost for claiming it all was aprox. 70 million. ?

I Abandoned that as soon as i heard the upcoming org changes (1 Account = 275 org cores) 

Before that it was 1375 cores per account. I suppose you dont consider a city with one,two or three tiles , i mean it has to be big.

One thing is that they trying to do is to reduce lag and bring the game to realistic loading times. Thats for the upcoming org changes . If they come . I mean it is still into consideration but the "wipe" has already been done... Second of all is the missing tools you mentioned making the building of a city a nightmare. Third and mosty basic of all is that the game is most likely turning into pvp and we just saw what are they focus in at the last patch . The reduced building is the increased pvp capacity the game has to offer. (+market clean up)

Also take into consideration the flat tool use. I had to flatten an area of about 120 tiles and the height was different about +100 and -100 which resulted flattening 5-10 meters height of 1/3 of a tile in a day which makes it impossible if you really want to terraform the terrain of a large city. Yeah i have to agree 1 person is impossible but it is still a lot of work to be done in flattening.

Also take in mind that they may deliberately delay that building fundamentals because XL cores may appear in the horizon . This would be a game changer indeed. This is still beta and the game is under development.

I prefer to have a gameplay in pvp and trading and farming and industry rather having spend a lot of time in building (which i like ) because we currently really dont know where they are heading to. And if you are planning to build big and also use a master plan (Blueprints -Alignement of constructs - Number of cores and most important ore and voxels and elements ) you have to know that beforehand otherwise it is building in blind ...+And you may loose your stuff if they change the org core count in a week or so ^^

I will leave a like for your post and hope they fix that also as this will make the game even bigger and therefore more good for me .But not in the sacrifice of the other game itself (pvp,trading,industry,mining) which is the real big question if the game can handle all that together . I hope it can fingers crossed ...

 

Dude, I hope you're still playing - despite the fact the game's core players (those who love building stuff, amirite?) are feeling a bit side-lined in the last few patches. DU needs players like you, or the building engine/interactive environment is pretty pointless. What are you doing to stay challenged now? The whole tile management sitch is a pain in the tuckus. See also ex-players keeping their tiles, forever even if they never play again: 

 

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5 hours ago, Megabosslord said:

Dude, I hope you're still playing - despite the fact the game's core players (those who love building stuff, amirite?) are feeling a bit side-lined in the last few patches. DU needs players like you, or the building engine/interactive environment is pretty pointless. What are you doing to stay challenged now? The whole tile management sitch is a pain in the tuckus. See also ex-players keeping their tiles, forever even if they never play again: 

 

Seriously? You feel like building is side lined? ?? PvP is still the part of the game that needs most attention due to being side-lined for so long so enough of these bad comments. Building is in a very good place. Vertex Editor and Blueprint alignment with overlap fixed and job done on that front imo.

 

As for no need for cities, this is a social mechanic that needs addressing. I gave NQ a design idea a while ago that would solve this issue. Without diving too far in to it, it involves giving every character 2 possible residency declarations. You would be able to declare residency at a static or space core. Have enough residents at a territory and you can declare it a village what you can name with unique bonuses for residence while within the tiles influence and maybe some for visitors.
 

Bonuses get bigger as more residents come and village evolves in to town / city / metropolis. Also once at city size all neighbouring tiles with shared ownership would have the residency number / bonuses shared and city will have icon on the game map for everyone too see.

 

 

 

 
 

 

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10 hours ago, Megabosslord said:

What are you doing to stay challenged now?

Of course I am still playing ! I like the game ...

I joined an very nice org which is in a very nice alliance . That is the most important thing i did in the game . I left my "miniworld" and joined with other players to start playing pvp. 

This way you learn a lot of things you didnt know , and will make you enjoy the game even better . Communicate and feel you are part of a big team. 

Now the talents is the limit because you are switching your game target from one point to another. It may take a while but it is worth the try. Hope that helps !

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13 hours ago, Physics said:

PvP is still the part of the game that needs most attention due to being side-lined for so long so enough of these bad comments. Building is in a very good place. Vertex Editor and Blueprint alignment with overlap fixed and job done on that front imo.

PvP needs love for sure, and so does most other parts of the game. And while building is the one thing they do reasonably well, there is still a lot of frustration because of many, many, many long standing bugs and no progress.

 

A simplified DU progression chart from the player perspective looking at new features, looks something like this. And I probably forgot to include some stuff here, but still..

2017/2018                                                          jan 2020                                                                             aug 2021

Pre-Alpha building ------- nothing ------ industry & pvp prototype ------  industry nerf ------ asteroid mining & pvp update

 

So you see that for a pure builder player, this game is still very much unchanged from the early pre-alpha times.

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13 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

PvP needs love for sure, and so does most other parts of the game. And while building is the one thing they do reasonably well, there is still a lot of frustration because of many, many, many long standing bugs and no progress.

 

A simplified DU progression chart from the player perspective looking at new features, looks something like this. And I probably forgot to include some stuff here, but still..

2017/2018                                                          jan 2020                                                                             aug 2021

Pre-Alpha building ------- nothing ------ industry & pvp prototype ------  industry nerf ------ asteroid mining & pvp update

 

So you see that for a pure builder player, this game is still very much unchanged from the early pre-alpha times.

I’m actually curious, apart from what is already quoted and bugs what is desperately needed for building before release? Anything game breaking missing? Maybe an empty construct option for that last ghost voxel when dismantling?

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