Small weapons/shields need rebalance

[Guest]

Everyone knows that now in the game any weapon and shields other than L size are not used in PvP.

 

Here's what I suggest:

1. Same HP values for all shield sizes.

2. Same damage values for all weapon sizes.

3. Forbid the installation of small shields on large cores, as it was with weapons (XS shield for XS core, S for S core, etc).

 

These 3 simple changes will help NQ forget about the problems of XS/S/M weapons forever. XS/S/M weapons can do the same damage as large ones, but they shoot very close, and the same HP values of all shield sizes will help small ships fight large ships.

[VarietyMMOs]

The fact you just stated only L cores are used in pvp makes everything else irrelevant.

 

I do understand why you think this is a good fix, It's widely known the other thing you've ever shot is L core haulers.

[Shaman]

10 hours ago, SneakySnake said:

Everyone knows that now in the game any weapon and shields other than L size are not used in PvP.

 

Here's what I suggest:

1. Same HP values for all shield sizes.

2. Same damage values for all weapon sizes.

3. Forbid the installation of small shields on large cores, as it was with weapons (XS shield for XS core, S for S core, etc).

 

These 3 simple changes will help NQ forget about the problems of XS/S/M weapons forever. XS/S/M weapons can do the same damage as large ones, but they shoot very close, and the same HP values of all shield sizes will help small ships fight large ships.

partially agree, but i think it would be more interesting if instead of having the same hp values, smaller shields could have other benefits by venting faster (as well as having a faster cooldown) etc.

 

not so sure about making damage the same though, that would make xs cores waay to op. M and S (and possibly xs, but to my knowledge they haven't been tested much) cores have already been shown to be fairly viable in combat as although they deal less damage they have a far smaller cross section, and are way cheaper. s core pvp ships can cost as low as 4-5 mil, which is insane given it has a fair-ish chance to kill an L core which could be up to 150 mill more.

[Musclethorpe]

These are ridiculous suggestions and overly simplistic. Small ships aren't supposed to fight large ships (alone anyway), but they should be faster, more maneuverable, and harder to hit. Weapons should absolutely not do the same damage all across the board, which is why tracking should be the modifier that evens the playing field between the different size ships.

[XKentX]

On 10/1/2021 at 12:49 PM, VarietyMMOs said:

It's widely known the other thing you've ever shot is L core haulers.

Hmmm.... He is a pirate, he is supposed to do that.

[Knight-Sevy]

Nerve / limit the speed of larger core.

 

Index the chances of the weapons hitting on the different core sizes.

 

Limit shields to cores of the same size (like weapons)

 

And this will make it possible to have 4 classes of ships: XS / S / M / L
And the player can create any cool ships they want, not just nano ones.

 

The little ones should be close to the big ones and can catch up with them to do damage.

 

Large ships must be escorted by smaller ones or have different sized weapons to defend themselves.

 

It's a game, we have to create categories of ships, let's stop wanting to mix everything up on the same balancing system.

[RugesV]

Personally I think there is an even easier solution.  Lower the accuracy of large weapons on small cross sections.  

[RugesV]

Ohh and another thing that would vastly help out PVP. Removing the single crew ship PVP. IE a remote control script running maneuvers while the single crew manages the guns.  IE instead of 14 gunner seats on 14 ships. you would have 7 gunner seats on 7 ships, Or 13 gunner seats on 1 ship. Or any combination in between. which would remove the current nano meta. 

[XKentX]

29 minutes ago, RugesV said:

Ohh and another thing that would vastly help out PVP. Removing the single crew ship PVP. IE a remote control script running maneuvers while the single crew manages the guns.  IE instead of 14 gunner seats on 14 ships. you would have 7 gunner seats on 7 ships, Or 13 gunner seats on 1 ship. Or any combination in between. which would remove the current nano meta. 

14 gunner seats... yea. 

I see you speak from experience and therefore you should definitely have some bright ideas on how to balance PVP.

 

/sarcasm off

[RugesV]

9 hours ago, XKentX said:

14 gunner seats... yea. 

I see you speak from experience and therefore you should definitely have some bright ideas on how to balance PVP.

 

/sarcasm off

Please enlighten me. 

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong here. This is the current Meta

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LlCtTSXTkA

 

 

And when I say a gunners seat I am referring to  a rack of weapons.   Because its easier to say 14 gunners seats instead of 90 weapons.  Because when you say you have a fleet of 90 weapons.  you dont know if that fleet has 13 gunners or  90 gunners on one or 90 ships. If I say a fleet of 14 L core ships. you dont know if that refers to  a fleet with 14 gunners, or a fleet of 90 gunners.    However If I say a fleet with 14 gunner seats on 14 ships you know exactly what I am talking about.   I am talking about 14 nano L cores.  Well unless its like flag bearers of old. and people are showing up in unarmed ships. 

 

And when you look at these battles and these battles  its where I pulled the 14  people on a side engaging. 

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/23470-its-a-trap-trap-aar-battle-report/

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/23525-aar-lodestar-assembles-the-battle-for-alioth’s-first-exotic/

 

[i2eilly]

11 hours ago, RugesV said:

Please enlighten me. 

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong here. This is the current Meta

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LlCtTSXTkA

 

 

And when I say a gunners seat I am referring to  a rack of weapons.   Because its easier to say 14 gunners seats instead of 90 weapons.  Because when you say you have a fleet of 90 weapons.  you dont know if that fleet has 13 gunners or  90 gunners on one or 90 ships. If I say a fleet of 14 L core ships. you dont know if that refers to  a fleet with 14 gunners, or a fleet of 90 gunners.    However If I say a fleet with 14 gunner seats on 14 ships you know exactly what I am talking about.   I am talking about 14 nano L cores.  Well unless its like flag bearers of old. and people are showing up in unarmed ships. 

 

And when you look at these battles and these battles  its where I pulled the 14  people on a side engaging. 

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/23470-its-a-trap-trap-aar-battle-report/

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/23525-aar-lodestar-assembles-the-battle-for-alioth’s-first-exotic/

 

Currently ships with more than 3 gunner seats with experience large amounts of misses due to server timeouts.  This is why the Meta is what it is also.  Big ships just don't work.  I made a ship with 7 gunner seats and 1 pilot, I could never hit anything.  This is also stated on the patch notes as a known issue.

[XKentX]

16 hours ago, RugesV said:

Correct me if I am wrong here. This is the current Meta

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LlCtTSXTkA

 

 

 

That ship has no-where near 14 gunners. The most efficient ship is piloted by a pilot using a remote control to control the ship and sitting in the gunner seat. So 1 Gunner seat per ship. This is due to limitation of 1 shield per core. Therefore it's more efficient to have "1 seaters" (in some cases 2 max) as ANY ship has same tank (1L shield gen). Want more? bring more ships, not more guns on single ship.

 

+ game can't handle more than 4 gunner seats on 1 ship, all kinds of weirdness starts to happen.

 

Sneaky does a good job if people look at CVA for meta now lol.

 

Edit: I read your post again, yea 14 L nano cores is best. (14 small L core ships that are very fast)

[Shaman]

On 10/3/2021 at 6:01 AM, Musclethorpe said:

These are ridiculous suggestions and overly simplistic. Small ships aren't supposed to fight large ships (alone anyway), but they should be faster, more maneuverable, and harder to hit. Weapons should absolutely not do the same damage all across the board, which is why tracking should be the modifier that evens the playing field between the different size ships.

i think the problem here is that there is no point of using xs cores at all, even when ganging up. why use 5 xs cores to swarm an L core if you could just use 5 L cores instead for so many more benefits?

[RugesV]

6 hours ago, XKentX said:

 

That ship has no-where near 14 gunners. 

lul.  Confirmation bias much?

[Musclethorpe]

11 hours ago, Shaman said:

i think the problem here is that there is no point of using xs cores at all, even when ganging up. why use 5 xs cores to swarm an L core if you could just use 5 L cores instead for so many more benefits?

 

In theory, because they'd be a lot harder to hit, and far less costly if lost. There is a balance that needs to be struck for the sake of gameplay.

 

Bigger simply cannot be better, or that is all you will ever see. I'm not saying XS should be taking down L, but enough of a smaller size should be a problem without an escort of some kind.