Concern about the future of the game

[shadowfyre2]

1 minute ago, joaocordeiro said:

If the density of ore in the pvp zone was 5 times higher than in non pvp zone, you will still have a reason to fight. 

This is why I think they could add quality to the ore. Let the higher quality be in the pvp area. Let that higher quality produce better elements to make it worth the risk of going into pirate area, but let low quality,  but usable t3-t5 ore be in safe zones so the non pvpers aren't locked out of over half the game

[shadowfyre2]

13 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:

But magic, there is T5 for sale if you wish

That take quanta, if I had quanta I wouldn't need to mine for quanta. Furthermore without miners going into pvp zone, you won't have t5 for pvp. Although some pvpers mine, it won't be enough to support the fighters long term and non pvp miners won't find it fun dealing with  pirates just for t5 ore. Your viewpoint is that pvpers are necessary for buying t5 elements and I say non pvpers are necessary to sell t5 elements. We both are right. So why lock out non pvpers for the sake of pvp pride?  We already see a serious shortage of elements in the marketplace because of the ignoring the economy for the sake of pvp. They don't want the pvpers to be self sufficient by making their own elements.  They want an economy where fighters buy from merchants. But ignoring nonpvp gameplay and telling us to stay home won't  fulfill a thriving economy. If they want to make a pvp game,  it's their choice but let me know so I don't waste my time. If they want a real thriving universe then my opinion matters and my gaming experience is as important as a pvper's experience. 

[Captain Hills]

13 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:

we gave you the hand and voila you want the whole arm

ahh it was YOU

.. thank you sir .. appreciate it !

 

I'm sure of one thing - if PVP means waiting for the fancy non-aggro miners to give them a rectal infeed - instead of "ugly PVP cubes" looking for "ugly PVP cubes" - the game will find its face landing quicker then you reloading the Railgun ..

 

make ore available to anyone, but make PVP areas important & more attractive is the solution

 

 

[Captain Hills]

4 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

You do not need to bring your DSAT to the vessel operating the asteroids.
It is an investment that you do not risk "in battle".
 

Besides, you can mine ateroids already discovered.
 

You try to explain game mechanics but seem to have only skimmed over them without attempting to delve into them.

 

i just started the DSAT again to check the output. So this is the picture. Does anyone can tell more precise details to what's called "milestone" ? Is "get within 10km of the pos. to scan it" not implying to scan the Asteroid a second time using DSAT in the range of 10 km ?

 

It would change a lot if you're right @Knight-Sevy

 

edit: found the answer myself and until anything on this has changed I thing I'm right with my assumption. You have to travel 6 times using your DSAT to get the boulder in front of you IF you want to find it yourself. In the PVP area you have to risk loosing your 3kk ship plus your 25kk DSAT.

 

here's a good video explaining the process, thanks to RobRantz for this !

 

 

[Atmosph3rik]

22 hours ago, shadowfyre2 said:

Only level 1 and 2 asteroids are in the safe zone. Confining me to level 1 or 2 content. As for making credits in mining, there's not much to be had in t1 or t2 ore anymore without a heavy hauler and that takes credits to build.

 

I just skimmed the last two pages of this thread so someone else may have said this ?.  But i don't think NQ's intention is to limit anyone to any one thing.  This is just a side-effect of them adding parts of the game one at a time.

 

Planetary Mining was the only way to make Quanta, or get ore, for quite a while, and everyone was doing it, no matter how much they hated mining.  So a huge amount of the ore was mined a lot faster then i think NQ expected.

 

All these systems are supposed to work together to achieve a balance.

 

It's like NQ's trying to build a stool, one leg at a time, while we're all sitting on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Captain Hills]

4 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

All these systems are supposed to work together to achieve a balance.

It's like NQ's trying to build a stool, one leg at a time, while we're all sitting on it.

 

good answer @Atmosph3rik

[shadowfyre2]

And that's fine with me but where is the non pvp aspects in the roadmap. Its about polishing whats there already and adding some more for pvp. I'm voicing my concerns about the game becoming too pvp centric that there isn't room for those like me. 

[Bobbie]

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[Atmosph3rik]

2 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

 

Oh and who in their right mind builds a stool while people are sitting on it...

 

NQ does.

 

Like it or not.  Here we are.  They were building a stool, and we all wanted to sit on it, and it was taking them forever, so they decided to invite everyone to pay to sit on the stool.  It's their stool.  I don't know what to tell you....

[Bobbie]

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[Atmosph3rik]

1 minute ago, Bobbie said:

Funny, neither does NQ.

 

Your frustration with NQ doesn't make me wrong though.

 

I'm not trying to justify NQ's past decisions.  I'm just discussing the game, as it is, because that's what we've got to work with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bobbie]

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[Lethys]

11 hours ago, shadowfyre2 said:

This is why I think they could add quality to the ore. Let the higher quality be in the pvp area. Let that higher quality produce better elements to make it worth the risk of going into pirate area, but let low quality,  but usable t3-t5 ore be in safe zones so the non pvpers aren't locked out of over half the game

i dont get your point here. that's exactly what is ingame right now - with the T1-5 ore. doesnt matter if they rebrand it, or introduce new stuff. there will still be better ore in the pvp zone as in the safezone. doesn't change anything.

 

besides: risk vs reward is crucial here and creates oppertunities for gameplay. dont want to risk mining in pvp zones? dont go there. and maybe someone else will take that risk and sell you that ore....for a higher price ofc.

[shadowfyre2]

40 minutes ago, Lethys said:

12 hours ago, shadowfyre2 said:

Expand  

i dont get your point here. that's exactly what is ingame right now - with the T1-5 ore. doesnt matter if they rebrand it, or introduce new stuff. there will still be better ore in the pvp zone as in the safezone. doesn't change anything.

Ore level is about type ore, ie hold, coal, etc. Quality is about purity. G

So that coal found in the pvp area is better than coal found on alioth.  For example,  limestone made into x2 space fuel...limestone on alioth would make what's in the game now. But ore found on an Asteroid near ion could be of exceptional purity making fuel that gives an additional 50 to fuel efficiency when used. This way we keep risk vs reward  but allow t4 ore on asteroids in the safe area in more limited quantities 

[Lethys]

1 hour ago, shadowfyre2 said:

Ore level is about type ore, ie hold, coal, etc. Quality is about purity. G

So that coal found in the pvp area is better than coal found on alioth.  For example,  limestone made into x2 space fuel...limestone on alioth would make what's in the game now. But ore found on an Asteroid near ion could be of exceptional purity making fuel that gives an additional 50 to fuel efficiency when used. This way we keep risk vs reward  but allow t4 ore on asteroids in the safe area in more limited quantities 

well that's what is there now, basically, too. some materials are only found in pvp zone. wouldnt change anything at all. because ppl who wage war in pvp will only ever use the more superior material instead of the low value ore found in safe zones. you know, just like now.

[joaocordeiro]

2 hours ago, Lethys said:

besides: risk vs reward is crucial here and creates oppertunities for gameplay.

 

I completely agree with this sentence. 

 

But. The reward can be about quantity instead of quality. 

 

The idea is to create the chance for a new player to migrate from PVE to PVP. 

If he can only get good weapons/engines in the PVP zone, he will allways be at a near impossible disadvantage. 

 

To me, someone that does not travel to the PVP zone should have exactly the same opportunities and resources compared to the PVP player, but at a much lower quantity, making him take much longer to get a good ship. Instead of making it impossible. 

[shadowfyre2]

8 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

The idea is to create the chance for a new player to migrate from PVE to PVP. 

That's my concern about the direction of the game. If the point is to transition everyone into pvp, I'm wasting my time. Pvp was supposed to be one major aspect of the game,  not the point of the game. I'm not into pvp. I want to build, explore and rpg as a vagabond. Building and exploring were supposed to as important in their own rights as pvp not just to support pvp. If my choosing not to pvp locks me outof all but 3 world and 2 teirs, there's no place for me in the game. 

[joaocordeiro]

7 minutes ago, shadowfyre2 said:

If the point is to transition everyone into pvp, I'm wasting my time.

 

NPC are still tabu. 

As it stands, you are wasting your time. 

[shadowfyre2]

The developers will need to change the marketplace if they want to make a pvp game. Fighters aren't going to be merchants enough to support pvp only game and non pvpers won't be attracted to the game. Most gamers don't enjoy pvp only games. There's a reason non last for more than a few years. You're already seeing the effect on the game with the loss of players in DU since .23 and the lack of the supply of elements for sale

[CptLoRes]

 

35 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

 

NPC are still tabu. 

As it stands, you are wasting your time. 

 

Yeah.. NQ initially said there was no need for NPC/PVE since there would be player created content instead. But that failed miserably. Mostly because they never managed to give us the tools required, or even figure out exactly what tools that would be for that matter. But at a bare minimum there would have to be some advanced mission/quest system, maybe even with some scripting functionality.

 

So either actually give us the tools (unlikely), or just admit it was an infeasible idea and add some PVE.

[shadowfyre2]

22 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

at a bare minimum there would have to be some advanced mission/quest system, maybe even with some scripting functionality.

Agreed 

 

In a persistent world, the life can't be sustained by predators alone. If nq wants a self sustaining universe, there has to be more than pvp. If they want this game to be successful,  they have to either artificially sustain the support of pvp via bots in the marketplace or not make the universe about pvp.  My hope is that pvp is their focus right now but they will focus of other aspects of the game to make things like exploring more important later in beta testing. I'm voicing my concern here to give nq my point of view to make a better game, not to take pvp out of the game. That being said, I've seen many game not make it out of beta testing to release by focusing too much on pvp. And a focus on pvp, as the pvpers who have shared their view in this thread have stated was the object of the game, will make this game nothing more than a niche game without the hope of bringing a large community.  DU is a large universe. It will never feel populated if pvp is the objective. 

[joaocordeiro]

1 hour ago, CptLoRes said:

But that failed miserably. Mostly because they never managed to give us the tools required

 

Lol. 

It was a failed vision, no matter the tools. 

 

Why would people that hide from real life social interaction by playing video games, ignore their instincts of instant gratification and work and socialize positively to create and enjoyably game experience for others? 

 

I can admit that most of you never actually thought about this in this way. And may be now arriving to the conclusion on how "player exclusive" content is not viable. 

 

But there are still some of you that think the problem is the lack of "tools"?... Thats just blinded faith in JC's vision. 

[CptLoRes]

50 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

Why would people that hide from real life social interaction by playing video games, ignore their instincts of instant gratification and work and socialize positively to create and enjoyably game experience for others?

For the same reason 'those' people spend countless hours building the perfect ship/base etc.

I.e. most are not actualy hiding from social interaction. It is just that the interaction has to be on their terms.

And ironically once those criterias are meet, they are often willing to spend WAY more time and energy on interactions then the so called 'normal people'.

 

For example you know that stereotypical nerd that is shy and hardly talks to anyone? Put him/her on a chair next to another nerd with similar interests, and you wont be able to shut them up. They will go on for hours.. Difference being they now feel they have something worth talking about, instead of the typical social stuff that is mostly the equivalent of "nice weather we are having today".

[joaocordeiro]

Very wishful thinking @CptLoRes.

 

Thats the diference from theorical experimentation and engineering. 

 

Theorical experimentation does what you do, calculates the possibility of some "effect" to occur and tries to create the exotic conditions necessarily for that "effect" to occur, no mater the cost. 

 

Engineering calculates if that "effect" can happen naturally or with the cheepest/easiest set of conditions possible. 

 

Is it, experimentally, possible for the DU community to create a "player driven" to happen? Yes, with "exotic conditions" like "tools" that NQ has not provided and some unknows we are yet to realize. 

Is it engineering viable? Nope. 

[CptLoRes]

I sorta agree.

 

It is a know fact that many MMO players are willing to put enormous amounts of time into games. The JC experiment was if that energy could be used to actually make/imporve the game content, and that is the part that failed.

 

But there are a few examples like Second Life, Minecraft etc. where in fact it does work.