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Please Remove Schematics


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It's all in the title, I'd love to play again and so does people from my group there were about 15 of us. Schematics made us all leave. We are just waiting for you guys to remove that bullshit and obviously add more content and stuff to do wouldn't be that bad. Like more star systems, random ship crashes to harvest, random NPC ships to take down transporting ressources from planet to planet...

There are 2 things I like from Starbase that I believe could be a great addition on DU : A ship building program within the program that's working a bit like the Unreal Engine (being able to make blueprints without having what is needed yet is a must honestly) and the FPS part with weapons that would be amazing on DU. 

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I'd second this idea, if we had DU classic.

 

Basically revert all of the stupid stuff like missions and roids, wipe the ground monthly, and let use just play the game before it became a shit show.

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No idea where they are needed for, to frustrate people? hold them back? money sink? Because decent development of a research approach to crafting was never tried? Because nanananana? till this day i have not seen a single reason why they are needed that makes sence.

 

But apparently the schematics were needed more then a few thousand alpha players who really stopped playing in the week following the introduction. And all is well with a good reason or explanation, but none is given.

 

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35 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:

But apparently the schematics were needed more then a few thousand alpha players who really stopped playing in the week following the introduction. And all iswell will a good reason or explanation, but none is given.

 

 

You never get such explanation because its not something they want to say.

 

NQ started Beta absolutly naked assed without content or mechanics (they barely made shy steps in this regard 1 year later), so to "strech" this blatand emptyness, they retrospectivly increased grind x10, locking everyone out of already achieved progression. Its 33%.

 

Whole idea "not everyone need to be able to craft everything" also was very hard lobbied up to JC face by particular people with access to his ears. As good idea, presumably. This another 33%.

 

Final 33% -- its all aligned with JC's own bullshit of constantly talking about player specialization, but giving them zero mechanics or reason to actualy do so (beyond small cast of builders of decorative voxels).

 

So it happened.

 

Yet, people not that stupid and refused to eat this shit and dropped DU in rows.

 

Fundamental reason of failure not even schematics (they just made things degrade much faster), economy of DU, even with them never happening, -- fundamentaly flawed. Its one big afk overproduction (with huge additional megaload of exploits) against tiny-tiny, irrelevant sinks. Its hopeless formula.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 8/13/2021 at 9:00 PM, Haunty said:

The only thing I don't like about schematics is managing them. Can I just have one central schematic bank on a core that all the machines can access?

 

This ^

 

As much as I don't like schematics at all, if we have to have them then at least make it easy to use. At the moment it's just needless and annoying inventory management.

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Nothing wrong with schematics - except as was said above about the management of them and maybe needing one for each machine running that schematic. Decent, but not exactly burdensome, money sink for most of them. Sensible way to control manufacturing capabilities.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Post Schematics nerf every1 was 1-man-megafactoring and that was not ok. This is not a single player game and when ppl started to sell items cheaper than crafting cost something had to be done.

And stop playing the victim card, players left for different reasons, including lack of pvp.

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schematics turned the game from an open building game in tot a mining grind fest survival simulator, which for me is just a big no.

So patch .23, combined with all the other errors and DU apparent meeeeh good enough attitude was the nail in my coffin

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4 minutes ago, Kurosawa said:

schematics turned the game from an open building game in tot a mining grind fest survival simulator, which for me is just a big no.

So patch .23, combined with all the other errors and DU apparent meeeeh good enough attitude was the nail in my coffin

True, but 1-5 years from now we will look at what happened at 0.23 and we will smile knowing we are the pillars DU foundation was created on ! 😉

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in 5 years when DU is spoken of on youtube, what was the start of the downfall, people will come back on 0.23. If i was an investor or high director i would want to see the person responsible for 0.23 dissiplined. specially since alot of worries were spoken prior to introduction and all were waved away.

Probably the reason NQ does not want a solo factory per player has to do with server tech that can not handle that

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Yeah. Most of the changes for the game since forever has been about limiting the load on servers.

 

Large cores (1k, 2k and 4k) - got removed in pre-alpha and never returned

Schematics - limit large scale industry

Missions - Very easy on the servers

Asteroids - Restrict mining to smaller respawnable resources

Shields and material debuff - Makes voxel less relevant

Auto mining - remove the need for digging/terraforming

and so on..

 

And while some of those features may actually improve game play (anything that leads to less digging is a win in my book), it is also very clear that the server tech is struggling and that game design decisions are made with that in mind. And so the game is slowly turning into something different from the initial premise, and starting to look more and more like a traditional trading and PvP space MMO instead.

 

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On 8/13/2021 at 8:06 PM, Aaron Cain said:

No idea where they are needed for, to frustrate people? hold them back? money sink? Because decent development of a research approach to crafting was never tried? Because nanananana? till this day i have not seen a single reason why they are needed that makes sence.

 

But apparently the schematics were needed more then a few thousand alpha players who really stopped playing in the week following the introduction. And all is well with a good reason or explanation, but none is given.

 

They were needed to stop player trying to make everything themselves, in stupid massive super factories, like this is Factorio not an MMO.  It worked, a lot more people now buy stuff rather than trying to solo it all.

Whilst I dont think they were the best solution, I do think it achieved the required results. 

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Now, in the current state of the game, I no longer understand complaints about the schematics.

Especially when it comes to groups of ten or more players.

I think there is a lot of ignorance and annoyance, people who were angry either blew their brains out so they could keep complaining endlessly or they need it to justify stopping the game when so many other missing or badly made mechanisms justify it more.
 

I recently reviewed one of our industries that makes almost every T1 item in the game: 35 million shematic. Apart from the core unit, you can craft any PvE ship in the game !

With the current price of ore (eg T2) you can make just over 10 million quanta in just 2 hours!
 

Really complaining about the price of the shematic is stupid now. There is no longer a valid argument for wanting a return to the no schematic version of the game.

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13 hours ago, Kobayashi said:

They were needed to stop player trying to make everything themselves, in stupid massive super factories, like this is Factorio not an MMO.  It worked, a lot more people now buy stuff rather than trying to solo it all.

Whilst I dont think they were the best solution, I do think it achieved the required results. 

No it did not work, most people left and will never come back and others just bought the schematics and build solo factories again. even worse, a large schematic sceme was never dealt with by NQ that made it possible for some individuals to buy stuff so cheap it broke game balance. and sure we dont see that now, but DU is not build for a few weeks.

 

adding schematics only made alot of players leave, after that nothing changed. I even have 3 factories running at the moment, even more as before schematics.

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12 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

Now, in the current state of the game, I no longer understand complaints about the schematics.

...

I recently reviewed one of our industries that makes almost every T1 item in the game: 35 million shematic.

When the schematics hit the game in 0.23 I was really mad, almost quitted the game. The other 3 of my buddies only crafted nice things but didn't dig or do any industries - while I loved the industrial game play. 

 

I'm not sure if 35 kk is enough for all the T1 but probably it is. Meantime I've spend ~400 kk+ for all my schematics and I say it was only possible because I already had some territory scanners. And I had the passion to spend the time to dig. I'm not into mega-industries things, I just wanted to craft almost all I need my self. That's why I hate the Idea for wiping the game.

 

The problem is that new players have a hard time to get that far to start scanning for good spots. It's not fair to them. Also they have a hard start to learn the game because they have to buy anything to try out the basics. This is the ONLY problem with schematics I see. Anyone from pre-0.23 can do anything - same way I did. It wasn't easy, often boring, but that's what grinding is in any game.

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1 hour ago, Captain Hills said:

 

The problem is that new players have a hard time to get that far to start scanning for good spots. It's not fair to them. Also they have a hard start to learn the game because they have to buy anything to try out the basics. This is the ONLY problem with schematics I see. Anyone from pre-0.23 can do anything - same way I did. It wasn't easy, often boring, but that's what grinding is in any game.

New players come and go. All mmos have this problem. You will never be like those from Eve Online who play since 2004 and its ok. There is room for every single one of us in the game. 2-3 years from release with new systems, planets, what will come there will be room for everybody. Also, those new players have the option to join any high end org who is recruiting and not give a single damn about anything. At this moment the game offers positions for whatever you want to do, gunner, pilot, miner, etc.

Its impossible in few days after stalking DU discord not to find a place for you in this beautiful Universe. DU is not a fair game, DU is not a fair world. It has FFA PVP Full LOOT mechanics. DU is not your average mmo where a casual can play 1h a day and be competitive, but that dude with 1h a day can have a bigger added value on a bigger team.

DU is not about individuals, DU is about organised groups who are achieving goals. Why struggle as solo players when you can be part of something bigger?

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22 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

I recently reviewed one of our industries that makes almost every T1 item in the game: 35 million shematic.

The main problem with schematics is not the price but the way they are implemented. If you are happy with manually moving schematics in and out of industries everytime you switch to another product, than 35 million might be enough (I didn't check that). My factories are designed to make as many products as possible without moving stuff between containers. In order to make that working again I would need to buy much more schematics than I ever use at once. That makes no sense. A single schematics container for all industries within a construct would solve that problem. If you have N schematics for a specific receipt, than N factories could run it once without moving them around. And that is just one problem I have with this 'feature'. If players are asking to remove schematics than they are talking about schematics as currently implemented and not about hypothetical schematics without such design faults.

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I don't like the industrial system of NQ.
 

It is a passive system, once you have installed your machine and your diagram you will NEVER need to open your factory again.
Just drop ore in and take the items out.
 

It is too late to change anything at the moment NQ has to move on on other subject.
 

But if they come back to it later, I'd like the new industry system to call for really expensive machines rather than schematics.

You should pay 50 million for a production machine, not the shematic.

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16 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

No it did not work, most people left and will never come back and others just bought the schematics and build solo factories again. even worse, a large schematic sceme was never dealt with by NQ that made it possible for some individuals to buy stuff so cheap it broke game balance. and sure we dont see that now, but DU is not build for a few weeks.

 

adding schematics only made alot of players leave, after that nothing changed. I even have 3 factories running at the moment, even more as before schematics.

Completely disagree, as someone who has played as mainly a trader since alpha, schematics had a massive impact on supply and demand.  Making is FAR easier for smaller players to find niches in the market.  0.23 was bad for anyone who wanted to play the game solo, like it was a survival game, but it made a positive impact to market competition.

Nice to be back, enjoying the game a lot at the moment, did you miss me x?

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4 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

It is a passive system, once you have installed your machine and your diagram you will NEVER need to open your factory again. Just drop ore in and take the items out.

 

That's intended. JC's last vision of industrial gameplay was mass production of a single product. There is no reason to open the factory again if it just turns ore into screws. Complex factories that can be adjusted to changing demands have been mostly hit by schematics. That's why many industrial players left after 0.23

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