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Ruining the only pirating we have without implementing an alternative... bad move NQ.


iNFiDeL
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Firstly I just want to start by saying I am not a pirate, I've participated once ever in pirating but do a lot more hauling then pvp. With that said as a hauler taking away my only option for any kind of thrilling game play was a bad move. In the current games state there is nearly no way to pirate anything beyond a noob with a crappy hauler running down the pipe. Experienced haulers are overly rewarded by simply knowing to go a few SU off the pipe to avoid 100% of the risk. I can now run my missions free of any fear because there is absolutely no way your going to track me once I'm 10-20 SU off the pipe and good luck catching me as I leave, once I see you on my radar I'm just going to turn around and go back to the planet. These changes should have been only implemented once an alternative like a tracker or interceptor radar was implemented. Once again pvp space is basically pve space. Might as well have allowed warping missions cause is basically the same thing now. come on NQ what happened to open world?  

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Also to all you Safers who want to bring up killing defenseless haulers, its your fault for making them defenseless. Put some iron and weapons on and haul the right way. My hauler is a 4 seater 90k voxel beast and if a pirate showed up before they'd have to pull my ship from my dead corpse. 

 

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Oh look, another "whah I want an easy button to get kills thread".  If you want a thrill when hauling then take your "armed and armoured beast" and fly the pipe, no one's stopping you.  Why should I be forced to at best spend even more time on an hours long haul hoping my voxels outlast some "pirate's" ammo.  Or worse, attach a gun to my ship and participate in an ass combat mechanic that's as about as challenging and complex as the board game "Battleship".

 

As for 'Safers', is that your name for so called 'pirates' that all operate bravely from their bases situated in the Safezone?

 

 

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Justifying log off beacon alts on a constructs hull is nonsense, NQ carpet bombing the issue the way they now did is just as silly.

 

If you'd manage to get an alt INSIDE a construct as a stowaway I'd frankly see no issue. It's on the hauler to keep his doors locked after all. NQ probably is not able to determine is someone is IN or ON a construct so they just created a broad stroke "solution". It's really just another problem cause by half implemented game mechanics. Having pressurised environments would have made this way easier.. AND add interesting gameplay options..

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2 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

If you'd manage to get an alt INSIDE a construct as a stowaway I'd frankly see no issue. It's on the hauler to keep his doors locked after all.

I totally agree to this. But right now you can just walk over and stand on the outside of any construct, and the owner has no way of preventing this or removing you. So the problem is 100% NQ.

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To be honest, the current piracy meta was hunting in fish aquarium. If alt tagging was done properly, the victim hauler had no chance to know he was tagged and was practically dead. Yes, there were exceptions e.g. Eye of Apathy. But generally speaking, the mechanics was totally unbalanced.

On the another hand, we have warp drives, we have AGGs. Our space radars have WWII range and I don't want to comment atmo radars. This doesn't any sense. The resolution could be extending range by antenna, could be extending range for higher tier radars, maybe allowing space radars to do some sort of directional active scanning with extended range.  Or if the ship has active shield, the player docking will not be performed.

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21 hours ago, Kruzer said:

Oh look, another "whah I want an easy button to get kills thread".  If you want a thrill when hauling then take your "armed and armoured beast" and fly the pipe, no one's stopping you.  Why should I be forced to at best spend even more time on an hours long haul hoping my voxels outlast some "pirate's" ammo.  Or worse, attach a gun to my ship and participate in an ass combat mechanic that's as about as challenging and complex as the board game "Battleship".

 

As for 'Safers', is that your name for so called 'pirates' that all operate bravely from their bases situated in the Safezone?

 

 

The only Whah I hear here is you guy, oh boo hoo you don't want to participate in pvp so you should be exempt. Safer is a term to describe people like you, a whiny pve cry baby who thinks its their right to have unlimited access to the highest tiers of resources and gameplay available in the game without any risk. No one asked for an easy kill option dip sh*t, we are pointing out a fact that it is almost impossible to pirate now. If you think otherwise get your dumb *ss out of the safe zone and prove me wrong. The only booty you will find is noobs starting out and that's bad for everyone. Lastly since the pvp is about as complex as battleship you shouldn't have any problem throwing a gun on your ship and fighting back, its not that hard from what you say guy. 

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No I don't think I should be exempt.  I'm almost never in the safe zone and haul between planets constantly.  In order to avoid the loss of a ship and weeks of work, I take measure to reduce the risk of that happening.  Currently that involves staying off the pipes.  Slapping a gun on my ship will do nothing against a purpose built ship.

 

The only sense of entitlement is coming from degenerates like you who think the game should be played according to how you think it should be played and all others should be forced to play according to your warped vision of who is justified to access what resources.  Or, that because you want to pirate you are entitled to targets.  Not asking for an easy kill?  The minute a hauler is caught in range there is no escape unless they are intercepted close to the safe zone the only other means of escape is sheer incompetence of the pirate.  The warp drive is easily perma-locked and the new update will put out a system wide APB when an miner finds an asteroid.  PvP is a game feature not a requisite, the idea that someone who doesn't like PvP should be forced to participate in it is as absurd as forcing a ship builder like D4nk Knight or the Captain's Customs guy to mine.

 

Serious questions;

 

1. Why is piracy good for the game?  Why is the lack of 'booty' bad for the game?

2. A miner/hauler is risking a hours of work and millions of quanta what is the pirate counter wagering?

3. I'll agree that there is RP value to the 'outlaw life' in a game but how does that jive with the presence of an all seeing entity overseeing the reconstruction of a society? 

4. Shouldn't the life of an outlaw involve life out side the law?  Shouldn't a life of crime mean no access to the safe zone (Alioth, Madis and Thades) and the protection it affords?  

5. Why are you only talking about pirating in the context of PvP?  There should be plenty of combat opportunities if the number players engaging in PvP is large enough.

 

Ultimately IMO it will be up to the dev to introduce conflict drivers in the game.  There will need to be control of resources and territories to fight over.  If conflict becomes bigger than just the ship on ship encounter more players may tolerate the combat mechanic to participate in the larger goal.

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Firstly your "measure to reduce the risk of that happening" is stupid simple fly away from the pipe don't get caught. Second, its a god damn space game man, what space game that isn't a sandbox pve game like space engineers, doesn't have pirates? Third, slapping guns on your ships very much can do something but you wouldn't know that since you haven't tried. a little bit of armor and a full seat of weapons can easily stop a pirate in its track because most pirates use light weight (Hint Hint Low Hitpoint) interceptors that are basically glass cannons. Fourth, regarding pvp is a feature not a requisite, this is complete bull sh*t the only reason anyone can get t4 and 5 safely right now is because TW isn't implemented. The safe zones are only supposed to be around the 3 planets alioth/sanc, madis and thades. So at some point in the future the game itself will say your statement is wrong.

 

Pvp is supposed to be a very real and heavy portion of this game based on what the devs advertised and sold this game as. Also mining is not in anyway comparable to ship building. Mining itself in any game has always come at some level of risk if pvp is implemented in the game. As always the high tier items are in more dangerous areas and as well the lower tier items are safe, which is where the pve stops just because there is a safe zone doesn't make this game pve, everyone is participating in pvp when they boot up DU whether they like it or not, just because someone stays in the safe zone doesn't make it not a pvp zone just outside, if you thought this game was some roblox fun house free for all where you can do what you want free of consequences then you are playing the wrong game or these devs straight up lied to a huge portion of the games' population. Regardless of all this though, my point was not to support the act of camping on a ship, it was to only do away with the option when pirates have some tools to actually pirate. They didn't even program it out of the game yet, just setting up more rules on an open world game thats not feeling very open world. 

 

Now regarding your "Serious questions"

1. Because it creates depth to progression slowing down what we have all made super fast due to the complete lack of any possible loss. 

2. A ship that is often time more valuable then what you are carrying again there is very much a possibility that the prey becomes the hunted here people actually fought back. Rare XL manuevers and rare weapons arn't cheap, neither are the boat loads of warp cells needed since NQ decided decent radar range isn't important. 

3. Tf are you even talking about?

4. Probably should, but there are no NPC, no law besides the bs rules being added in by NQ which don't lead to any kind of in game punishment, just a ban since it made some safers salty enough to petition NQ a billion times. Your bringing up issues that aren't even being considered by NQ so don't waste my time. 

5. This is an entirely different issue all together, possibly fixed by the upcoming changes but as it stands fleet pvp is dead. Every engagement leads to people simply leaving the pvp zone, no one dies no one gets an actual victory because voxel is so OP that you can survive nearly any fight. I am talking about pirating because pirating is what was effected by this rule change. fleet pvp is actually being focused on finally but that doesn't mean pirating should have no place.

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Now if the scenario was different and they were done implementing tools that made piracy of anything other than noobs flying for the first time a thing, but just hadn't figured out how to implement removing players off a ship, then the rule being added wouldn't be a big deal. Pirates could still be pirates without killing the games population and the only thing lost would be a cheeky mechanic. Since that isn't the case what was lost was the only real piracy tool in the game that didn't solely target noobs. Guys were literally ransoming mission packages and ships to the players who lost their haul for hundreds of millions of quanta, the game was actually starting to feel like it should, a wild world that can attract new players. I mean this is barely any different then those who were insiding orgs. RDMS wasn't intended to result in players getting fat losses, but it developed into that and NQ supported it, now that its actually pvp related though rules are made...

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1 hour ago, iNFiDeL said:

Firstly your "measure to reduce the risk of that happening" is stupid simple fly away from the pipe don't get caught. Second, its a god damn space game man, what space game that isn't a sandbox pve game like space engineers, doesn't have pirates? Third, slapping guns on your ships very much can do something but you wouldn't know that since you haven't tried. a little bit of armor and a full seat of weapons can easily stop a pirate in its track because most pirates use light weight (Hint Hint Low Hitpoint) interceptors that are basically glass cannons. Fourth, regarding pvp is a feature not a requisite, this is complete bull sh*t the only reason anyone can get t4 and 5 safely right now is because TW isn't implemented. The safe zones are only supposed to be around the 3 planets alioth/sanc, madis and thades. So at some point in the future the game itself will say your statement is wrong.

 

Yes, it is stupid simple and the cost of carrying it out is the extra time it takes to get off the 'pipe'.  So? I'd have to be an idiot not to use it as it is the only means to offer reasonable assurance that weeks of work isn't undone.  Look, if the dev wants me to engage in combat than they should be making it interesting enough for me to want to participate in it.  I'm not opposed to PvP at all but there has to be a point to it or like in Elite Dangerous, the combat mechanic has to be interesting enough to make me want to engage in it despite there being no larger purpose. (I'm not saying combat in DU needs to be like ED just using it as an example).  Rigging the game to try to force players into PvP is just wrong and ultimately is more likely to result in players leaving the game (which is really good for no one).  

 

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Pvp is supposed to be a very real and heavy portion of this game based on what the devs advertised and sold this game as.

 

 

This actually made me laugh.  We could have a whole discussion on the devs living up to what we were sold on. 

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Also mining is not in anyway comparable to ship building. Mining itself in any game has always come at some level of risk if pvp is implemented in the game. As always the high tier items are in more dangerous areas and as well the lower tier items are safe, which is where the pve stops just because there is a safe zone doesn't make this game pve, everyone is participating in pvp when they boot up DU whether they like it or not, just because someone stays in the safe zone doesn't make it not a pvp zone just outside, if you thought this game was some roblox fun house free for all where you can do what you want free of consequences then you are playing the wrong game or these devs straight up lied to a huge portion of the games' population.

You said it in your last sentance.  If you were right in the first part of this point, the surface of planets outside the safe zone wouldn't be protected. Hell, if the dev were honest and didn't lie to us the only safe zone would be sanctuary.

 

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Regardless of all this though, my point was not to support the act of camping on a ship, it was to only do away with the option when pirates have some tools to actually pirate. They didn't even program it out of the game yet, just setting up more rules on an open world game thats not feeling very open world. 

To be clear, I never assumed you were advocating camping or any other exploiting the only problem I have with you is you trying to FORCE other players to participate in PvP.

 

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Now regarding your "Serious questions"

1. Because it creates depth to progression slowing down what we have all made super fast due to the complete lack of any possible loss. 

Nah, that can be done in other ways and it's up to the devs not you to determine that.  The mission system and resulting quanta dump would indicate that you and the dev's thoughts are not aligned on this.

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2. A ship that is often time more valuable then what you are carrying again there is very much a possibility that the prey becomes the hunted here people actually fought back. Rare XL manuevers and rare weapons arn't cheap, neither are the boat loads of warp cells needed since NQ decided decent radar range isn't important. 

No I don't think so, you are creating an alternate reality where a hauler would even care (or the combat mechanic be interesting enough for them) to go hunt down and loot a pirate.  Also, in order to 'fight back' a hauler would also have to equip his ship with the same expensive Rare XL manuevers and rare weapons.  And you are ignoring the days or weeks spent going down the drain on the hauler side.

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3. Tf are you even talking about.

Not important enough for me to bother clarifying.

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4. Probably should, but there are no NPC, no law besides the bs rules being added in by NQ which don't lead to any kind of in game punishment, just a ban since it made some safers salty enough to petition NQ a billion times. Your bringing up issues that aren't even being considered by NQ so don't waste my time. 

You can't have it both ways. NQ isn't considering foiling the off pipe strat so you are wasting our time.  Maybe trying to make your case without denigrating so called 'Safers' would be more effective?  Look, I find the combat mechanic to be awful and there would seem to be a lot of players that feel the same way.  Your approach of getting hostile towards them rather than suggest ways to make combat more interesting isn't constructive.  It's more than likely that even if you were to successfully lobby NQ to rig the game to force players into combat, they'd just cancel their sub and leave.  Which is fine if you feel there is enough interest otherwise to keep the game afloat.  

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5. This is an entirely different issue all together, possibly fixed by the upcoming changes but as it stands fleet pvp is dead.

Yes it is dead and I have no faith that NQ will fix it or, if they do it will be too late. 

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Every engagement leads to people simply leaving the pvp zone, no one dies no one gets an actual victory because voxel is so OP that you can survive nearly any fight. I am talking about pirating because pirating is what was effected by this rule change. fleet pvp is actually being focused on finally but that doesn't mean pirating should have no place.

 I actually agree with you about the theory. But, in the state of the current game I don't believe piracy has a place.  Ironically, while this sounds anti-piracy, my argument is that 'piracy' needs an expanded role. In the current game 'piracy' is closer to murder hoboing or griefing.  There it is completely binary there is no option to surrender or discuss terms.  There is no option to disable and loot some cargo it's just about murder and a total loss for one side.

 

Anyways, good luck with your lobby.  If you are successful in your efforts and there is no improvement in the game play, maybe I'll give you my stuff.  A bit of a pyric victory. 

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16 hours ago, Kruzer said:

If you are successful in your efforts and there is no improvement in the game play, maybe I'll give you my stuff.  A bit of a pyric victory. 

Hey if that's how it is I understand, I'll take your stuff no worries boss ;)

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18 hours ago, Kruzer said:

I actually agree with you about the theory. But, in the state of the current game I don't believe piracy has a place.  Ironically, while this sounds anti-piracy, my argument is that 'piracy' needs an expanded role. In the current game 'piracy' is closer to murder hoboing or griefing.  There it is completely binary there is no option to surrender or discuss terms.  There is no option to disable and loot some cargo it's just about murder and a total loss for one side.

 

It's fairly common these days for the pirates to reach out to sell the ship back to the person they took it from, at a fraction of the cost the ship is worth. It's much more convenient then having to strip it down and deal with the individual components.

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On 7/24/2021 at 6:48 PM, Bobbie said:

My doors are always locked. Just not spawned...

 

Fair point.. and yes, something NQ will really need to fix, The drawdistance of doors, force shields, landing gear etc is crazy short. Being able to just sprint towards where a door should be to get in to a construct is not really acceptable.

 

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