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PERMANENT REMOVE SCHEMATICS FROM THE GAME


Cabana

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No.

But allow beginners on Sanctuary to craft all T1 with an energy limited industry but without any schematics to learn the thing.

Also implement energy contingents for each player to limit the concurrent running boxes to disperse big portions of production chains.

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18 hours ago, Bravokilo1980 said:

How many of the no people are new to the game? That have no money and get 0.02 for 100 000 pure ores? When a new player can't even mine that much!

That is why I wish new Players to have the chance to learn the Game the way I could.

There is no need to sell ore in the very beginning, but anyone should be able to craft the needed parts for the first crash-rides.

 

Apart of that problem, the schematic restrictions help to improve the singleshard-performance (okey, thats an assumtion I admit)

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At this point, removing schematics would have been contraproductive. 

Schematics are, on fundamental level, the right call. The problem was its shallow implementation and outright disastrous rollout ingame.

NQ seems to go to EVE for ideas quite often, which is fine, but when taking a page out CCP's workbook, it would have been wise to read that page first, and read it with comprehension before slapping it on sticky note in the office.

 

Having said that, i belive it doesn't really matter anymore. Those who left past 0.23 are not comming back, 0.23 wasn't a cataclysmic event, to many it was just the last straw that broke the camel's back.  I suspect many of the very same people still lurk around the forums from time to time, but it's more out of curiosity how the final act plays out , than of a desire to buy a ticket to the movie to watch it again. 

 

NQs best bet is to cater to the white unicorn crowd ( regardless of the size it is ) that came after,  who discovered DU in the state it is now and are not burdened by dissapointment with the end product of grand promises and lofty goals JC sold to original backers.

 

 

I keep warning you. Doors and corners, kid. That's where they get you.

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19 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

Problem is that NQ is already well ahead in generating a second generation of disillusioned players. And how many tries do they get before no one wants to play anymore?

 

Not like it matter, but I guess its even 4th, if we go detailed way.

 

1) Initial KS backers  ("something not right")

  • Game postponent over 2 years
  • Methodical downgrade of KS promises with less and less to be delivered realisticly any time soon (AvA)
  • Start of legendary NQ comms to take negative effect on community
  • First suspicions about JC lying about progress 

2) "Alpha" players (disapointments over sharp difference of KS-promises and actual game delivered)

  • Disgusting technical state of game
  • Painfully slow development progress
  • Choking NDA clearly made to hide miserable reality of game for better sales
  • Total ignore of player feedback
  • Obvious signs of JC lying about state of game/perspectives
  • Futher cuts/downgrades in game features on road to Beta
  • Refinement of bad comms (somewhat saved by Naerais tacticaly)

3) "Beta" wave (revelations of true state of affairs)

  • False, misleading adverts
  • Shitty launch with previous feedback ingored
  • Lack of mechanics/content
  • Carebear paradise with overdone SZ
  • M15 cringy NQ reaction
  • Endless, industrial scale exploits, ruining economy
  • 0.23 
  • Schematics scandal
  • Naunet left and it left sour taste over NQ happenings
  • Basicly no progress for half of year
  • Bad comms achieve peak
  • JC cowardly flight and overall decline of morale
  • SB temptations

4) Derelict stubborn survivors and brave new noobs (any hope?)

  • Much more punishment oriented community managment.
  • In process...

 

 

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I had stopped playing the game when schematics were added. Just came back to take a look at how the game is progressing but I have to admit now that my whole factory doesn't work anymore I have no idea what to do in the game. I have checked a few random schematics on the market but I couldn't afford to buy more than a few. Guess I will come back in a few months to see how it's going...

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Schematics are ok for higher tier kinda industry. For starting players it would be good if all tier 1 stuff can be created without schematics.

 

overall I am happy with the game. It is not perfect but I like it. Mining is something I do to keep my industry running. In this way you don’t have to mine a lot. My focus is on industry and building nice things.

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I was shoked with 0.23 as well.

But seriously .. a little scanning&mining&selling ores and I was able to craft anything I needed to build my ships/base whatnot - I could afford military M and L drives with the time and I'm crafting more then I did before just for myself - so yes, there is a little grind needed if someone wants to run his own factories but its worth it !

 

I'm just glad I did it.

And I think it was the right step for the game to introduce schematics for performance reasons.

But I agree with @Verliezer  - new players should have a way to craft *anything without schematics to learn the game, I think that's very important for the future of DU.

 

* T1, limited production - e.g. not possible to sell on a market

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On 8/3/2021 at 10:58 PM, le_souriceau said:

 

Not like it matter, but I guess its even 4th, if we go detailed way.

 

1) Initial KS backers  ("something not right")

  • Game postponent over 2 years
  • Methodical downgrade of KS promises with less and less to be delivered realisticly any time soon (AvA)
  • Start of legendary NQ comms to take negative effect on community
  • First suspicions about JC lying about progress 

2) "Alpha" players (disapointments over sharp difference of KS-promises and actual game delivered)

  • Disgusting technical state of game
  • Painfully slow development progress
  • Choking NDA clearly made to hide miserable reality of game for better sales
  • Total ignore of player feedback
  • Obvious signs of JC lying about state of game/perspectives
  • Futher cuts/downgrades in game features on road to Beta
  • Refinement of bad comms (somewhat saved by Naerais tacticaly)

3) "Beta" wave (revelations of true state of affairs)

  • False, misleading adverts
  • Shitty launch with previous feedback ingored
  • Lack of mechanics/content
  • Carebear paradise with overdone SZ
  • M15 cringy NQ reaction
  • Endless, industrial scale exploits, ruining economy
  • 0.23 
  • Schematics scandal
  • Naunet left and it left sour taste over NQ happenings
  • Basicly no progress for half of year
  • Bad comms achieve peak
  • JC cowardly flight and overall decline of morale
  • SB temptations

4) Derelict stubborn survivors and brave new noobs (any hope?)

  • Much more punishment oriented community managment.
  • In process...

 

 

Careful they might ban you for sharing your opinion. Anything not directly fluffing NQ is "Unconstructive"

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On 8/4/2021 at 7:58 AM, le_souriceau said:

 

Not like it matter, but I guess its even 4th, if we go detailed way.

 

1) Initial KS backers  ("something not right")

  • Game postponent over 2 years
  • Methodical downgrade of KS promises with less and less to be delivered realisticly any time soon (AvA)
  • Start of legendary NQ comms to take negative effect on community
  • First suspicions about JC lying about progress 

2) "Alpha" players (disapointments over sharp difference of KS-promises and actual game delivered)

  • Disgusting technical state of game
  • Painfully slow development progress
  • Choking NDA clearly made to hide miserable reality of game for better sales
  • Total ignore of player feedback
  • Obvious signs of JC lying about state of game/perspectives
  • Futher cuts/downgrades in game features on road to Beta
  • Refinement of bad comms (somewhat saved by Naerais tacticaly)

3) "Beta" wave (revelations of true state of affairs)

  • False, misleading adverts
  • Shitty launch with previous feedback ingored
  • Lack of mechanics/content
  • Carebear paradise with overdone SZ
  • M15 cringy NQ reaction
  • Endless, industrial scale exploits, ruining economy
  • 0.23 
  • Schematics scandal
  • Naunet left and it left sour taste over NQ happenings
  • Basicly no progress for half of year
  • Bad comms achieve peak
  • JC cowardly flight and overall decline of morale
  • SB temptations

4) Derelict stubborn survivors and brave new noobs (any hope?)

  • Much more punishment oriented community managment.
  • In process...

 

 

Very true, but i, sadly played the game almost a year before the update, so I lost everything that i could build, and now, some of the support is less than worthy to be called trash... (some are really great! So i'm torn about the help topic). (Just as example, I was flying and died, twice, while flying with the same ship i used before the update with no issues, Support, then told me i was the issue, so as for support, i have made some very(!) Mixed feelings, since the craft worked finr before the 0.26.2 update. And trying to get money after now joining again (RL job loss), it's basicly just log in every day, since you can't earn money with ores any more... and if you tell support, there was an error and you suddenly died and lost your ship, nope, it's your fault, not the game, I have had the issue multiple times, so, yeah, let's see how this game and support continues. 

 

So, if you have a small vehicle, be careful, you may fly with it and die with no reason!

 

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I say keep schematics for impressive items such as AGGs, non-basic entities (engines etc) and T4-5 items. Basic items, however, should be craft-able by everyone from anywhere without schematics. If this game is supposed to have PvP on planets in the future, it would be important to be able to make basic defensive ships on site, or ships to travel from a hidden resurrection node. Basic entities are super cheap at this point anyway, and those who would be benefiting are those that aren't near the main markets.

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No.

First off, I was allready kind of burned out before 0.23 came out, so 0.23 broke my neck. Yes I can confirm that it also ruined all links on my ship and some lua (not that I was doing anything impressive so I don´t even understand how it could have been broken, but I still haven´t bothered to look at it) which was additional annoyance that arrived at the worst moment. But now I understand how important schematics are to the economy... We were all kind of doing everything at once, each on their own, or at least people without an org were.

 

A few things I´ve read and like to adress:

So the claims that you can´t sell ore or only at 0.02 are ridiculous, I sold hematite at 64 shortly before the asteroid update, granted it was probably at an all time high but as the economy is developping the prices are actually starting to make sense - buy and sell orders were allmost the same price for a hot second. I could see the prices rise with sustended volumes and correctly predicted very close to peak price, knowing 0.26 would increase supply again. It would be cool though to be able to hide those insulting 0.0x buy orders.

Researching schematics sounds like the worst idea, a similar update made me never play Empyrion again: instead of demanding grind, or alternatively brains and a little less grind, locking schematics to talents is telling the player "you won´t craft this before a year from now no matter how much effort you put into it". I´m also not sure if I´d want "you only need one schematic of each" because that sounds like we will be back to how the economy was before but with extra steps for beginners. I allready found it non-sensical todo dedicated production streets before 0.23 but allmost everybody was doing it since it meant less micromanagement, even if they were far from keeping it running 24/7.  What would be cool would be an element actually called schematics bank, that acts for the whole core, because  reading 20 schematics that all start with the same words is anything but fun.


And as to souriceau´s post: it is a fair summary. But one could also do a summmary that puts things into the perspective of: actually the delays on them reaching their goals have been extremly reasonable since beta launch. Yes the latest roadmap is a bit lackluster but guess what, it only goes until fall, which is pretty soon actually. They started with the hard parts, I´m confident they will be able to tie it all together. Wether the court of public opinion will still look favourably upon NQ once it´s finally done is another question though. But it´s a very hardcore game being made for adults but requiring amounts of time no adult actually has anyway. Still I have faith it is going to be the best product among it´s competitors.

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 It would be cool though to be able to hide those insulting 0.0x buy orders.

I really wish NQ is doing something against those stupid "offers", Its insulting me somehow.

Some ppl really try to catch some stupid guys by being stupid themselves. I hate that picture.

 

I allready found it non-sensical todo dedicated production streets before 0.23 but allmost everybody was doing it since it meant less micromanagement

dedicated lines is a very good method to get/have some educts available - just in case you need some for what ever product. In my case its only the WarpCells - production line which makes sense for that.

 

I can never afford a WarpBeacon Schematic for sure. But thats okey because its not the goal for a lonely wolf.

But I can afford a lot of other things even if I sell ore to NPC. I dont understand all those ppl complaining. I just invested half of my money to craft the DSAT and Niobium Honeycomps JUST BECAUSE, and not to sell but to simply have it. If I miss a Schematic, I go out and do my mining until I can buy it.

 

Still I have faith it is going to be the best product among it´s competitors.

I like your positive impulse, I also hope NQ can balance it well to attract new players. And again, new Players needs to have a hand and an easy "starter" into that complexability.

 

Finally I'm sure, if there is an "production" energy *contingent for each player - they could do a living market and create goals for bigger orgs and for little ones too.

 

 

*a contingent which you can divide for yourself and/or your cooperation 

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Now, in the current state of the game, I no longer understand complaints about the schematics.

Especially when it comes to groups of ten or more players.

I think there is a lot of ignorance and annoyance, people who were angry either blew their brains out so they could keep complaining endlessly or they need it to justify stopping the game when so many other missing or badly made mechanisms justify it more.
 

I recently reviewed one of our industries that makes almost every T1 item in the game: 35 million shematic. Apart from the core unit, you can craft any PvE ship in the game !

With the current price of ore (eg T2) you can make just over 10 million quanta in just 2 hours!
 

Really complaining about the price of the shematic is stupid now. There is no longer a valid argument for wanting a return to the no schematic version of the game.

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7 hours ago, MFJONES said:

Schematics "could" be ok, but are currently implemented pretty poorly. Limiting access to the game behind grindy time gates is just not the way to develop a player base. 

 

The doors are not difficult.

 

You just need to play less than 5 hours to have the quanta to do ALL the Tiers 1 crafts in the game.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yes, as implemented, the players who left the game because of the schematics do not vote here. Makes the schematics researchable, for example.

It should be possible for new players to have a small industry for their first builds to learn the game mechanics as well.

The skills for the industry also need an overhaul, I have to learn every shit to build special products that contradicts a specialization on products, because I can manufacture everything later anyway.

And some nice gameplay features so the game doesn't feel like work, I have enough of that in real life.

 

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2 hours ago, Elitez said:

No, schematics are needed. Join an Org, dont play solo and enjoy DU if you want high end stuff.

You can still play everything in the game on your own, it's just a matter of determination. How much time you invest in the game or how many accounts you use or what means you use in the game. Even a mammoth WarpBeacon project can be managed by a solo player.

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