DU Exploits - Player Based Help

[Endstar]

Large DU groups use these three items below to help our member base understand what is or is not a exploit. While making the case by case determination is a lot more complex generally if your doing one of these things you are using a exploit and you should not. There is always interesting debate about what is a exploit or not along with  how NQ should handle exploits. As a player community we tried to help NQ with this by creating some high level if you do these you most likely are using a exploit. With today's post reminding us all of this we may have to add one about missions soon.

 

• Transporting matter beyond the maximum linked container range in a near instant fashion.
   
• Moving third party constructs without the RDMS being provided to do so.
   
• Creating items/elements/parts in a way that does not consume the appropriate amount of materials.

[HangerHangar]

The item teleportation was embarrassingly simple.  just needed to kill your cockpit on a ship without a spawner, Or log out on a ship that someone else would then move outside of link range.  After you’ve done this if your remote container was active anything bought from the market would be dumped into that remote container, no matter how far away it was.  (You really didn’t think those massive immovable oversized container “ships” under markets, were part of normal gameplay did you?)

 

That’s something that means the team never bothered to get any professional testing or overburdened devs that were never allowed to test.  Since it’s incredibly important to look for massive bugs between players states (swapping servers, log out/in, enter/leave combat, mobile/not state, trade state, respawn states, and similar), since it’s something players will eventually find and abuse very profitable ways.

[Zeddrick]

6 hours ago, HangerHangar said:

The item teleportation was embarrassingly simple.  just needed to kill your cockpit on a ship without a spawner, Or log out on a ship that someone else would then move outside of link range.  After you’ve done this if your remote container was active anything bought from the market would be dumped into that remote container, no matter how far away it was.  (You really didn’t think those massive immovable oversized container “ships” under markets, were part of normal gameplay did you?)

 

That’s something that means the team never bothered to get any professional testing or overburdened devs that were never allowed to test.  Since it’s incredibly important to look for massive bugs between players states (swapping servers, log out/in, enter/leave combat, mobile/not state, trade state, respawn states, and similar), since it’s something players will eventually find and abuse very profitable ways.

I wonder if NQ have logs which would allow them to go back in time and observe this kind of thing.  It would be very funny if they could, for example, suddenly and permanently delete every single item which has ever moved more than 20km while being transferred from one container to another and was not moved back again for 1 hour.

The best way to stop people from cheating like this is to demonstrate that you can catch and deal with this sort of thing after the fact.  Then anyone who exploits has to wonder if they might one day get banned or suffer some other punishment even if they seem to have gotten away with it at the time.  Unfortunately what they actually did in the past was to just allow people to keep whatever they gained at the time (schematics bought at 1% price, for example).  That encourages the exact opposite -- people trying their luck whenever they see an opportunity because even if they get caught it probably won't matter.

[Novean-32184]

20 hours ago, HangerHangar said:

(You really didn’t think those massive immovable oversized container “ships” under markets, were part of normal gameplay did you?)

 

Indeed, and the fact these contraptions are allowed to remain in place while their function is immediately questionable should tell you something about the understanding and control (or lack thereof) NQ has regarding their own game and the core exploits it still has.

 

  

13 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

I wonder if NQ have logs which would allow them to go back in time and observe this kind of thing. 

If they don't then their game design is inherently flawed..

[GraXXoR]

I thought they fixed the bug with the out of range container linking. 

rantmode=on

 

I don’t like using the term exploit because that is implicitly shifting the blame from the devs onto the players. They are bugs, plain and simple. Whether they are exploited by the players or not is beside the point, IMO. 
 

much like the word “issue” instead of problem. If software has a problem, people can have issues with it. But software, unless it’s very advanced AI doesn’t have issues, since it has no personality. It has problems. And bugs.  And people can exploit those bugs or have issues with any problems it has. 
 

rantmode = off  
 

Sorry. This has nothing to do with any of the previous posts in this thread. 
 

 

[CoyoteNZ]

On 6/30/2021 at 11:42 PM, HangerHangar said:

That’s something that means the team never bothered to get any professional testing or overburdened devs that were never allowed to test.  .. .. .. since it’s something players will eventually find and abuse very profitable ways.

This is a beta. The fact that is is a subscription beta muddies the water a little. But any body who is discovered using a known exploit should have that account reverted back to the state a week or so before the exploit was used, and then a heavy fine (in quanta) which is levied against the toon, and then and org the toon is a legate of.

 

Anybody who finds an exploit and uses it a couple of times to test it should keep there gain if it’s not game breaking large AS LONG AS they report the bug and stop using it as soon as NQ respond with yes, this is a bug, thank you; we are adding it to our don’t do list.

 

When ever a bug is found there needs to be a fix; and if not possible. Then a way of tracking who is using it and reverse their gain when it is patched.

 

This is a beta. Finding bugs is a good thing. Finding bugs, exploiting then and not reporting them is a bad thing. Finding them, using them, but not reporting them within a day or so I would consider a ban offence, because this is a beta and if you do that you’re not contributing to the beta!

[le_souriceau]

Well, whole this with missions only tiny-tiny cap of proverbial iceberg.

 

Game economy was completly dominated by exploiters for last 9 months (until previous large ban wave, that knocked out most serious dupers), with NQ not wanting (because reasons) or unable to interwene.

 

I done quite a lot of my own wannabe journalistic "investigations" to be absolutly sure of it.

 

People with endless (or immensly huge) hoards of free ore just traded it all the time, keeping prices artificialy low (this why some prices were suspiciously stable, despite obvious gradual ore dissapeareance on planets), gaining huge quanta profits, that they later traded RMT. I personaly knew 2 people who done it ~ 1000 and 1500 euro value accordingly, immense more or less "laundered" value still hidden/dispersed between individual alts or integrated into orgs assets, so NQ still can get them without too much of havoc/blacklash. 

 

Now, with some dupers banned (and some JUST keeping low profile) economy bursting into inflation, because ore is more or less trully finite now, and people got additional money from missions.

 

So, from any sane standpoint, its shitshow of economy, extreamly shameful for developers as presumed professionals.

 

This why I currently see very little reason to play until wipe.

 

[HangerHangar]

21 hours ago, CoyoteNZ said:

This is a beta. The fact that is is a subscription beta muddies the water a little. But any body who is discovered using a known exploit should have that account reverted back to the state a week or so before the exploit was used, and then a heavy fine (in quanta) which is levied against the toon, and then and org the toon is a legate of.

 

Anybody who finds an exploit and uses it a couple of times to test it should keep there gain if it’s not game breaking large AS LONG AS they report the bug and stop using it as soon as NQ respond with yes, this is a bug, thank you; we are adding it to our don’t do list.

 

When ever a bug is found there needs to be a fix; and if not possible. Then a way of tracking who is using it and reverse their gain when it is patched.

 

This is a beta. Finding bugs is a good thing. Finding bugs, exploiting then and not reporting them is a bad thing. Finding them, using them, but not reporting them within a day or so I would consider a ban offence, because this is a beta and if you do that you’re not contributing to the beta!

 

These are not minor bugs.   These are bugs that should be caught during fundamental testing of systems.   They are bugs that are expected to happen, and universally do happen in untested games regardless of genre/type of game.   You release an MMO into an "unwiping" release of any kind without testing for the expected types of item duplication/authority/movement bugs that have been happening since MUDs in the 1990s/earlier.   (It's like the developers decided to not learn lessons from their peers).  

 

When a character swap states that could invalidate an action (IE: putting stuff in a linked container...   After a respawn or login puts you out of range of said container), you check and test that those actions are properly invalidated.   "What happens to X after death" will be one of the first things a tester/exploiter will ask.